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D2ultima

The SLI information guide

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32 minutes ago, D2ultima said:

Mmm. I've been watching DirectX 12 titles for quite some time. What I've gathered is that while it indeed has great potential, nobody cares to put in the time to make use of it. I've seen a lot of benchmarks where DX12 surpasses things, but every single DX12-only title that came through the UWP so far has had absolutely abysmal performance; with a GTX 970 on average basically performing like a Xbox 1 in Quantum Break specifically. Rise of the Tomb Raider got benefits on PCs with lower-end CPUs, but nVidia/i7 gamers in particular actually saw no improvement to a downgrade, and it released without a SLI profile too. I am not sure if it ever did get one. DX12 also has the ability to use multiple GPUs in two ways. Implicit multi-adapter is basically SLI and CrossfireX, letting the drive handle the load distribution. Explicit multi-adapter is where you could use whatever you want, and the game simply is coded to use more than one card. I may have them switched; if I do let me know. Either way, the one I've listed as explicit seems to perform better than implicit on the whole. But since it needs the devs to actually care and optimize, it's a crapshoot.

 

Honestly right now, as far as I see, Vulkan and DX12 are straight downgrades for all but maybe 5% of the titles they're announced for, and if titles don't have a DX11 counterpart, they simply perform like garbage in general. It all boils down to the same problem we've had the entire time: If people would take the time to optimize for PC (or even build for PC and port to consoles after), we would have games running maybe four, five times better than they are right now. DX12 might make things better, with draw calls being higher and less CPU usage, but honestly... DX12 with the poor PC support we have now is just a disaster in performance. Not to mention the artificial locking to Windows 10.

 

I would love to see a R9 480 compared to a GTX 480 for shits and giggles too =D.

I think some of it does come from the fact that Dx12 is incredibly new. Whenever we have a new console release (apart from current gen which haven been basically Dx11 x86 PCs so far) it always takes some time for performance and optimisations to peak. Looking at the quality of ports now compared to in 2011, it is much better than it has been. I too have heard stories of Dx 12 being particularly difficult to optimise for -- in specific reference to Async Compute too which leaves me doubtful of its usefulness, at least in the short term. However I think after a while we will see greater utilisation and optimisation for Dx12.

 

I'm baffled as to how the UWP support, and particularly Quantum Break, have been so bad. Microsoft have locked this because they are trying to sell an OS upgrade to people who really don't want  one on the back of this, and they are apparently going out of their way to make it even less appealing?

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Posted · Original PosterOP
1 hour ago, othertomperson said:

I think some of it does come from the fact that Dx12 is incredibly new. Whenever we have a new console release (apart from current gen which haven been basically Dx11 x86 PCs so far) it always takes some time for performance and optimisations to peak. Looking at the quality of ports now compared to in 2011, it is much better than it has been. I too have heard stories of Dx 12 being particularly difficult to optimise for -- in specific reference to Async Compute too which leaves me doubtful of its usefulness, at least in the short term. However I think after a while we will see greater utilisation and optimisation for Dx12.

 

I'm baffled as to how the UWP support, and particularly Quantum Break, have been so bad. Microsoft have locked this because they are trying to sell an OS upgrade to people who really don't want  one on the back of this, and they are apparently going out of their way to make it even less appealing?

The newness doesn't matter much; the coding is how people coded for consoles from the get go, in general. But I'd actually beg to differ that while games in 2011 didn't have say... borderless windowed, or all the PC options we like, they ran fairly decently. I hate unoptimization then, but I couldn't call it out nearly as much as I can now. Since the current-gen console launched I've noticed it's like devs are going all sorts of crazy. First was vRAM usage; every non-japanese game from I'd say 2014 onwards, which looked about as good as a decent 2012 title did on PC, suddenly requires 3GB+ of vRAM to turn up its textures. The texture resolution has skyrocketed, but the quality of the textures has generally remained the same. I keep harking back to Prototype 2's PC release as to what's capable without just tossing tessellation at everything until it looks decent, murdering GPUs needlessly, and what good textures look like. Next was CPU usage for most 2015 titles; devouring i7 chips whole with games like Dying Light and GTA V and Witcher 3 and anything on the Frostbite 3 engine in general, etc. It's stupid, because any old haswell or later core i3 is better than what X1 and PS4 allot to devs (only about 6 cores per game out of their 8, low IPC, low power, low frequency CPU cores), but sometimes they won't even give a PC the same experience, especially for 60fps console titles. 2016, I don't even know what this year is going to be. But yeah, I think PC ports started getting much better in 2012 and 2013, and then they just went on a landslide. We have lots of graphics options now and even some decent PC settings like FoV and borderless windowed, but they really mean little if the game runs like poo or is buggy as hell.

 

Async compute in itself is not really much issue. Maxwell cards from nVidia can handle 31 queues + 1 graphics render queue. AMD cards; Hawaii and Fiji in particular, can handle 64 queues. Their lower end cards as far as I know can't handle even as much as Maxwell can. The Ashes of the Singularity demo/benchmark for DX12 simply requested more than 31 queues at once, and Maxwell cards just rolled over and died. I don't see it as anything special, but I'm glad nVidia's "current-gen graphics rendering first, everything else can suck it" approach to GPUs while touting preparedness for the future got a solid blow to the ego. It's the same thing as when a game uses Gameworks and literally EVERYTHING is tessellated (Fur, Hair, God Rays, the environment, etc) and then AMD (and Kepler and Fermi nVidia cards) cards chug along because AMD (and old nVidia) can't tessellate as well as Maxwell can. Don't worry about Async compute being any sort of issue for the near future at least, whichever vendor you choose.

 

As for UWP support, it's because Micro$haft basically is following a certain path. They want to get everybody onto their crappy platform so they can have control over PCs and make money by gathering and selling data and/or other products. Instead of making their platform good, they are putting their time and money into advertising, and making as many "reasons to upgrade" as possible. Games you want, updates you want, support, etc. They're cutting support for Windows 7 and 8.1 short to make people get on 10. Businesses NEED support for the OSes they run. When it fully runs out they start upgrading as a matter of necessity, rather than choice. What happens when extended support gets cut short a few years? Gotta upgrade. They've refused to add support for CPUs newer than skylake into any OS other than 10; which means if you buy newer machines from Dell or HP etc for a business, if it's using Kaby Lake or later, or AMD's Zen, then you need to be on Windows 10 for proper support. Same for people buying new machines for gaming. What next? Let's get games on the platform that people want but don't want to buy Xbox 1s for. Can they work on Win 7 and 8.1? Yup! All you need to do is backport WDDM 2.0 into the OSes. Even if the OS kernel for 7 can't handle WDDM 2.0, the kernel for 8.1 most definitely can. What's stopping them? They want people on 10, so they refuse.

 

This is the issue with it all. It doesn't matter if everything runs like crap and the platform is locked down. Their design is that you won't have a choice if you want certain things, and thus you're eventually (and rather soon) going to have to upgrade things. The better (for the consumer) method would be to improve the platform in such a way that it becomes so attractive that people want to upgrade. That got many businesses and users onto Windows 7 real fast, compared to other OS launches. But they don't care about their consumer as they've proven. It's the same thing I say about the UWP. If you are so eager to make it "better" for the gamers, and are "working hard" to fix such issues as disabling vsync and using exclusive fullscreen and allowing applications to hook to it, etc... why did you design it without said features in the first place? Did you have absolutely no idea what gamers wanted or needed from the platform? And if yes, what business do you have even trying to sell that platform?

 

Sorry, I write books.


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THE INFORMATION GUIDES: SLI INFORMATION || vRAM INFORMATION || MOBILE i7 CPU INFORMATION || Maybe more someday

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Great Guide! :D

\/ heuehuehe

On 14/08/2014 at 4:37 AM, D2ultima said:

Hi everyone. I originally wrote this guide over at the kbmod forums, but as it turns out that forum is as dead as Aeris in FF7.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
9 hours ago, SrCarcaca said:

Great Guide! :D

\/ heuehuehe

Thanks =D


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THE INFORMATION GUIDES: SLI INFORMATION || vRAM INFORMATION || MOBILE i7 CPU INFORMATION || Maybe more someday

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On 28.4.2016 at 7:37 AM, D2ultima said:

Thanks =D

Has any of what you say in your post changed with pascal? Personally interested with sli and dsr (possibly) combined with G-sync. Looking at running two 1070's in sli. BTW do you think that's a good idea at the moment?


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1 hour ago, larsi239 said:

Has any of what you say in your post changed with pascal? Personally interested with sli and dsr (possibly) combined with G-sync. Looking at running two 1070's in sli. BTW do you think that's a good idea at the moment?

My bad, it's in your original post...


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Posted · Original PosterOP
1 hour ago, larsi239 said:

Has any of what you say in your post changed with pascal? Personally interested with sli and dsr (possibly) combined with G-sync. Looking at running two 1070's in sli. BTW do you think that's a good idea at the moment?

I have to update the guide for Pascal, but I want more information about how Pascal works in SLI first. As far as I can see, Pascal is a straight crapshoot. Can't overclock worth a damn if you intend on actually holding the clocks, sometimes barely baseclock holds, depending on the situation, etc. And SLI is a whole other matter, since the same voltage and clock adjustment crap from Maxwell was carried over (though voltage variance is less in Pascal, admittedly). Then them killing off 3-way and 4-way because PCI/e 3.0 x16/x16 with conventional SLI connectors is starting to be needed for games to run well with SLI at 1440p or above, and instead of just running XDMA style cards like AMD does (as more bandwidth is needed) they just use a doubled up bridge that's overclocked, because NVLink is their version of "XDMA" but since it needs proprietary connectors, it won't sell for consumer systems, and since they can't make money off it, they just avoided the problem entirely.

 

But I'll update more in the future.


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THE INFORMATION GUIDES: SLI INFORMATION || vRAM INFORMATION || MOBILE i7 CPU INFORMATION || Maybe more someday

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Question! I'm going for dual GTX 1080 Classified's when EVGA finally decides to release them. My motherboard also has a kind of awkward slot setup and only allows for 2-way SLI because of this setup. I want to go with one of EVGA's new HB SLI bridges but I don't know which one I should get with my motherboard because of the awkward spacing. Should be noted that I'm going to use the top two slots for the GPU's, not the bottom two.

 

Motherboard: https://pcpartpicker.com/product/bzNypg/gigabyte-motherboard-gaz170xgaming7

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Posted · Original PosterOP
12 hours ago, Joshe343 said:

Question! I'm going for dual GTX 1080 Classified's when EVGA finally decides to release them. My motherboard also has a kind of awkward slot setup and only allows for 2-way SLI because of this setup. I want to go with one of EVGA's new HB SLI bridges but I don't know which one I should get with my motherboard because of the awkward spacing. Should be noted that I'm going to use the top two slots for the GPU's, not the bottom two.

 

Motherboard: https://pcpartpicker.com/product/bzNypg/gigabyte-motherboard-gaz170xgaming7

Don't know which bridge to tell you to get; you'd just need to pick one that'll fit your motherboard, really. Alternately, it seems using two normal flexible bridges works as a HB bridge, if you can't get a bridge spaced right. Because the HB bridge is just a band-aid on a lack of bandwidth problem, and in itself is nothing special or innovative.

 

Mind if I ask why you're getting two 1080s?


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THE INFORMATION GUIDES: SLI INFORMATION || vRAM INFORMATION || MOBILE i7 CPU INFORMATION || Maybe more someday

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12 hours ago, D2ultima said:

Don't know which bridge to tell you to get; you'd just need to pick one that'll fit your motherboard, really. Alternately, it seems using two normal flexible bridges works as a HB bridge, if you can't get a bridge spaced right. Because the HB bridge is just a band-aid on a lack of bandwidth problem, and in itself is nothing special or innovative.

 

Mind if I ask why you're getting two 1080s?

1. Future proofing

2. Bragging rights

3. SLI is very aesthetically pleasing (for me, at least)

 

However, I've been wondering if NVIDIA was going to talk about a Titan card on the Pascal architecture and it seems as though they may be talking about it at Gamescom so I may end up going with SLI Titan P's. I'll have to see about price, if the board partners are getting to make their own, when the card actually goes on sale and if it's actually worth the money compared to SLI GTX 1080's.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
7 hours ago, Joshe343 said:

1. Future proofing

2. Bragging rights

3. SLI is very aesthetically pleasing (for me, at least)

 

However, I've been wondering if NVIDIA was going to talk about a Titan card on the Pascal architecture and it seems as though they may be talking about it at Gamescom so I may end up going with SLI Titan P's. I'll have to see about price, if the board partners are getting to make their own, when the card actually goes on sale and if it's actually worth the money compared to SLI GTX 1080's.

Well SLI is constantly declining in usefulness. I wouldn't get a SLI setup unless you KNOW for a fact that you most definitely want that extra power anytime it's available AND you're willing to fiddle with nVidia Inspector for games where it doesn't work well.

 

Titan Pascal will happen, but it's most likely not going to be GP100. GP102 is apparently "consumer" high end pascal, and GP100 is "enterprise" only. From what I've seen, anyway. I'd say grab one and see if you WANT more. And then make sure it'll make sense too, for the games. For example a large part of what I play right now is DS3 (which can barely crack 50% util on each card, which gives me in some cases negative scaling as scaling for that game is under 100% improvement), FFX HD (which I haven't bothered trying to force multi-GPU on, and which is 30fps locked anyway), Viscera Cleanup Detail (which doesn't use it by default) and Elite Dangerous (which locks itself to about 80fps most of the time for some reason and leaves much of my system under-used, like this). So if you were in a similar case right now, then single GPU would be enough for you.

 

I mean at the end of the day it's your money, and all my job is is to make sure you know what you're getting into. But that's my recommendation right now. Devs have decided to make many games AFR-unfriendly for NO ACTUAL BENEFIT, and use technology that requires data from previous frames often. This kind of tech, one example being TAA, absolutely hammers the bandwidth connection between cards, and nVidia's response was to axe 3-way and 4-way SLI and put a band-aid on the problem because they can't sell the actual solution for more money in the consumer market. And neither nVidia nor AMD is pushing developers to improve multi-GPU, so it's in a nice downward spiral now, one that DirectX 12 (and vulkan), despite all the potential benefits of it, cannot save.


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THE INFORMATION GUIDES: SLI INFORMATION || vRAM INFORMATION || MOBILE i7 CPU INFORMATION || Maybe more someday

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Hello everyone! I'd liek to ask for a little help.

The story is: I have a GTX 480 and I got an offer for another GTX 480 for really really low price but the problem is, that the card is a bit faulty. The famous horizontal lines-problem. 
So the question is, can I still use them in SLI if I use the good card for video output, without any problem?
(Please don't tell me to sell the cards and buy a better one etc, I want to experiment.)
Thanks!

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Posted · Original PosterOP
7 hours ago, Chavalier said:

Hello everyone! I'd liek to ask for a little help.

The story is: I have a GTX 480 and I got an offer for another GTX 480 for really really low price but the problem is, that the card is a bit faulty. The famous horizontal lines-problem. 
So the question is, can I still use them in SLI if I use the good card for video output, without any problem?
(Please don't tell me to sell the cards and buy a better one etc, I want to experiment.)
Thanks!

Couldn't answer this. As far as I know as soon as one card is bad it should cause problems. But if the display output itself is what's bad and not the card's core/memory/power phases/VRMs/etc? Then it might very well work.


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THE INFORMATION GUIDES: SLI INFORMATION || vRAM INFORMATION || MOBILE i7 CPU INFORMATION || Maybe more someday

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On 09/04/2016 at 2:23 PM, DildorTheDecent said:

Advantage: Multi GPU looks baller. 

 

Disadvantage: Cabling can be a PITA.

 

xD

Cabling is easy:

 

 

PITA is a broken motherboard, but I'm finally getting a replacement soon.

 

#SLI Gaming master race.


Linus is my fetish.

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10 hours ago, Bhav said:

Cabling is easy:

PITA is a broken motherboard, but I'm finally getting a replacement soon.

#SLI Gaming master race.

Maybe it's easy with dual 8 pin cards. 

 

But with dual 8 pin + 6 pin cards it can get pretty nasty. Since my PSU is basically full of cables rn. 


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9 minutes ago, DildorTheDecent said:

Maybe it's easy with dual 8 pin cards. 

 

But with dual 8 pin + 6 pin cards it can get pretty nasty. Since my PSU is basically full of cables rn. 

I'm using 6+2 pin akasa braided extension cables. They are the cheapest, but don't have the cleanest wiring where the wire goes into the pins.


Linus is my fetish.

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8 minutes ago, Bhav said:

I'm using 6+2 pin akasa braided extension cables. They are the cheapest, but don't have the cleanest wiring where the wire goes into the pins.

I wouldn't want to deal with extensions personally. 

 

Might a new PSU with a full replacement cable set in some sort of colour scheme. Would be easier than extensions imo. 


Our Grace. The Feathered One. He shows us the way. His bob is majestic and shows us the path. Follow unto his guidance and His example. He knows the one true path. Our Saviour. Our Grace. Our Father Birb has taught us with His humble heart and gentle wing the way of the bob. Let us show Him our reverence and follow in His example. The True Path of the Feathered One. ~ Dimboble-dubabob III

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Posted · Original PosterOP
23 minutes ago, Modus said:

Does Doom support SLI?

Yes and no. You basically need PCI/e 3.0 x16/x16 and a LED bridge, and you can force it on for DOOM if you're gonna play around 1080p without nightmare shadows. Otherwise you'll get ridiculous FPS drops and possibly negative scaling, depending on your graphical settings.


Clevo P870DM3 (Eurocom) | i7-7700K | 32GB DDR4 2400MHz | GTX 1080N SLI | 850 Pro 256GB | 850 EVO 500GB M.2 | Samsung PM961 256GB NVMe | Crucial M4 512GB | Intel 8265ac | 120Hz Matte screen | 780W PSU

 

THE INFORMATION GUIDES: SLI INFORMATION || vRAM INFORMATION || MOBILE i7 CPU INFORMATION || Maybe more someday

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Posted · Original PosterOP
47 minutes ago, Newuser said:

Which HB SLI bridge do I need to get for an ASUS Maximus VIII HERO mobo?

I'm not sure. You'd probably have to contact ASUS for that.


Clevo P870DM3 (Eurocom) | i7-7700K | 32GB DDR4 2400MHz | GTX 1080N SLI | 850 Pro 256GB | 850 EVO 500GB M.2 | Samsung PM961 256GB NVMe | Crucial M4 512GB | Intel 8265ac | 120Hz Matte screen | 780W PSU

 

THE INFORMATION GUIDES: SLI INFORMATION || vRAM INFORMATION || MOBILE i7 CPU INFORMATION || Maybe more someday

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Posted · Original PosterOP
5 hours ago, borrkalle said:

what cards can i use in two way sli with an msi 960 4gb

Any other 960 4GB.


Clevo P870DM3 (Eurocom) | i7-7700K | 32GB DDR4 2400MHz | GTX 1080N SLI | 850 Pro 256GB | 850 EVO 500GB M.2 | Samsung PM961 256GB NVMe | Crucial M4 512GB | Intel 8265ac | 120Hz Matte screen | 780W PSU

 

THE INFORMATION GUIDES: SLI INFORMATION || vRAM INFORMATION || MOBILE i7 CPU INFORMATION || Maybe more someday

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Posted · Original PosterOP

Pretty large overhaul tonight. Finally stopped being lazy and just did it.


Clevo P870DM3 (Eurocom) | i7-7700K | 32GB DDR4 2400MHz | GTX 1080N SLI | 850 Pro 256GB | 850 EVO 500GB M.2 | Samsung PM961 256GB NVMe | Crucial M4 512GB | Intel 8265ac | 120Hz Matte screen | 780W PSU

 

THE INFORMATION GUIDES: SLI INFORMATION || vRAM INFORMATION || MOBILE i7 CPU INFORMATION || Maybe more someday

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Nice write up.


If there's anything I can help with in regards to pascal SLI, let me know.  I have a pair of 1080's for another week or so before pascal titans arrive.


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