Creating a Headset - The Side-tone Problem

[Teapole]

So I've been pondering a rather illusive problem. How can I use good headphones, that cover the entire ear... while using a microphone, and be able to hear myself back through the headphones. I'm open to all suggestions and critical thinking, as this is something that more than one person struggles with.

 

First, you have to understand why I want to do this. Many people comment to me, "Why not just buy a headset, why not use ear-buds, etc.." The thing is, I don't want to hear what's going on in the real world when I'm editing music, creating videos, playing games... I want to be immersed in what I'm doing, but I also want to be able to talk to my friends and colleagues while I'm at work, or at play. And I don't want them to hear each individual click of my keyboard through my microphone.

 

I'm going to try to go about this in an organized fashion, because all the information and research I've done in regards to putting together this kind of system seem to be dis-organized.

 

1. What do I have to work with now? - The newest edition of the 100.00 usd, soundblasterZ sound-card, JVC 60.00 usd Headphones, an AT2020 usb cardioid condenser microphone, the soundblasterZ desktop microphone.

 

Right now, I use the soundcard's microphone to chat with friends while using the JVC stereo headphones. I emulate surround-sound, and other audio-enhancing effects from the soundcard to the headphones. Although this is a relatively cheap pair, it works better than any 100+ usd headset I've ever bought in terms of sound quality, but the microphone isn't quite what I want. The biggest problem is that I can't hear myself through the headphones. When I'm working on audio and video, I switch to my AT2020 mic, because it yields much higher quality, but once again, no way to produce side-tone AND it's USB, which means even if I could use software to replay my speech into the headphones, it would have too much latency due to conversion and transfer rates.

 

2. Possible Solutions - Using a small mixer, side-tone software, converting USB to 3.35mm jack, (your solutions)

 

So the first thing I went about doing was searching the web for solutions to my problem, how could I get side-tone that doesn't lag so I could hear myself? Some people have asked similar questions, but as far as I know, no-one has really sat down to answer this, or think up a solution. A lot of people have theories though. One theory is using a mixer, the reason artificial side-tone lags is because it has to go through the operating system before it comes back into your ears. I believe that the conception of side-tone had something to do with aerial pilots decades ago, so it's not new technology. So how would a mixer work? Well, if there was some way to plug into the mixer, and then run the mixer to your computer, you would hear yourself through the mixer before it went to the computer. So no lag, or maybe lag in reverse... but I don't have a mixer to test it with nor the money to buy one.

 

Ok, let's think about side-tone that does work, and why it works without getting to complicated. The Logitech G930, for example, is a usb-bluetooth wireless headset. Hmm, bluetooth and USB, not good candidates for side-tone, but it works.. How? Well, I don't know for sure, but I can speculate that the side-tone is produced through hard-ware within the headset, something that normal headphones don't have. So you're hearing yourself without going through the operating system, and that side-tone can be controlled through software and drivers because it was designed to do so. Normal headphones aren't designed to have side-tone.. hence our dilemma.

 

Another theory is through software, that somehow the sound can be buffered or compressed to be heard at what 'sounds' like the exact same time. I've tried a little program that someone tossed together and put on the internet for a project. It worked, but it still lagged. Even with 3.35mm connection, still lag. There was another version that didn't lag, but another problem arose, which is the same problem that ASIO drivers create. They only want to run in their own 'little world' rather than in the big operating system's universe. So you can't get side-tone where you need it, like in skype, or other communication methods. You can only use it in supported software, and then you're limited to those drivers.

 

3. Ideas - (I've had a few, but I can think of one that I'd like someone to create)

 

Try searching modmic on the internet if you don't already know what it is, but in a nutshell, it's a microphone that you can magnetically, or by other means, attach to your headphones. So let's say you have a 600 dollar pair of headphones that you use for music editing, and then you decide you want to play some Battlefield... or whatever you're into. So you can buy this 50.00 dollar mic, (good quality) it looks like any headset mic, but it's more adjustable and flexible, and you can attach it to those headphones. What do you get? The ultimate headset! A good microphone, and a good sound, all-in-one! But guess what? No side-tone.

 

So that's ModMic, which is a real thing and a great invention, but my idea is an addition to this. Creating side-tone hardware in the "ModMic" and drivers that control it. It's simple, and it would solve so many problems.

 

4. Conclusion - (it's not really a conclusion, because I need your help!)

 

So now I ask you, audiophiles, sound-engineers, random people... How do I combat this problem? Do you have the easy solution that I've been missing? Have I wasted my time creating this post? Please, please let me know. I'm looking for feedback desperately. 

 

 

Thank you,

 

- Thomas

 

[NannerBeans]

Short answer. There is no good solution. I've heard of some people using a mixer for that but that's extra hardware and costs more. 

[RatedBlam]

Would listening to the microphone trough windows work or am I missing something.

[Teapole]

Would listening to the microphone trough windows work or am I missing something.

You'd think it would, but Windows has some latency problems, causing it to lag.. badly. Good observation though.

[RatedBlam]

You'd think it would, but Windows has some latency problems, causing it to lag.. badly. Good observation though.

Yeah, that's what I thought. It's too obvious to miss.

[Teapole]

Short answer. There is no good solution. I've heard of some people using a mixer for that but that's extra hardware and costs more. 

Maybe there's no good solution.. yet but I believe there should be, and will be in the future. 

[NannerBeans]

Maybe there's no good solution.. yet but I believe there should be, and will be in the future. 

I had the same issue but the simple/easy fix is using open headphones but if you want immursion...well idk. I have modded Fostex headphones that are semi open but have a lot of isolation so maybe something like that would be a good middle ground?

[Teapole]

I had the same issue but the simple/easy fix is using open headphones but if you want immursion...well idk. I have modded Fostex headphones that are semi open but have a lot of isolation so maybe something like that would be a good middle ground?

It's a possible workaround, but finding good open-headphones can be expensive. Thank you.

[ShearMe]

The Syba DAC has this functionality in the VIA software it comes with. Problem is, you need to have both the mic and headphones plugged into the unit, so any USB mics are out of the question.

 

The Blue Yeti has a god headphone port on it, and also has loop-back functionality, so if you wanted to sell your AT2020 and grab a Yeti it'd be a cheapish solution.

[DrRomeoChair]

Hi Thomas, [edited]

 

Not sure if you're still interested in this topic or not, but I've been looking at the same thing since I can't stand not hearing myself talk through the headset. There are solutions, but none of them are free (although some are fairly inexpensive).

 

1) Find a USB Microphone with direct headphone monitoring. These will appear like both an audio input and output device to Windows, so you have to set the PC sound output to the USB mic's headphone device. Then you'll hear PC sound + mic signal mixed together.

 

Some, like the Blue Yeti (already mentioned above) and the ATR2100 (dynamic) have a physical volume knob for the headphones. Others, like some Samson USB mics (C01U Pro, Go Mic, Meteor mic, etc) control the headphone mic volume through software (more of a pain, IMO).

 

2) The Behringer Xenyx 302USB (http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/302USB.aspx) is a small USB-powered mixer/interface that goes for about $50. You can use either an XLR mic or standard 3.5mm (1/8") PC mic connector (just not both at the same time), so this is really a great solution and very versatile.

 

3) It turns out that a lot of the USB sound interfaces have a zero latency monitoring feature controlled in software.

 

In Windows,

- right-click on the speaker icon in the sys-tray

- open the Playback devices (*not* the recording devices tab),

- select the properties for the USB sound device you want to use (right-click->properties or left-click->properties button)

- select the 'Levels' tab and if there's a microphone there, unmute and adjust the level.

 

Unlike when you do this in the 'Recording Devices' dialog under the 'Listen' tab, which gives a horrible delay, monitoring from the playback tab doesn't cause any delay (on my devices at least).

 

 

HTH and Good luck,

 

DRC

[OC-Nathan]

Hi Thomas, [edited]

 

[...]

 

2) The Behringer Xenyx 302USB (http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/302USB.aspx) is a small USB-powered mixer/interface that goes for about $50. You can use either an XLR mic or standard 3.5mm (1/8") PC mic connector (just not both at the same time), so this is really a great solution and very versatile.

 

[...]

 

HTH and Good luck,

 

DRC

So I tested this out with my beyerdynamis mmx 300 and my asus xonar essence stx and it works pretty well. Basically you wanna run your 3.5mm output onto either the line 1 or line 2 with a 3.5mm to stereo splitter cable. And you wanna plug your headphones and microphone into either the 3.5mm plug on the top right or the XLR mic on the top left. You'll get the sound of your microphone back to your pc via the usb cable. Now to make sure that you don't have your pc's output(line1) on the usb input you have to push down the black button next to the red one. This makes sure that the line 1 is only played to your headphones and not to your usb mix. You can adjust the level of sidetone by amplifying it where it says mic and if your desired sidetone results in a too loud output over usb you can just lower teh usb-mix on the bottom right. One thing I got to note though: This mixer isn't really good at amplifying the line input. If you amplify significantly you'll get a lot of static noise. So try to keep the input on the line high, by making sure your windows is 100% audio level and sources like youtube, movies and games are also rather loud. Otherwise I can really recommend this solution. It costs about 60 dollars if you need the cables(1x 3.5mm to stereo + the mixer) and delivers decent quality and very nicely adjustable sidetone. I'm really happy I found this so I can step away from my g930s(they're nice for their price, but don't really allow the use of a soundcard like the xonar essence stx)

 

If you have any questions I'm happy to help and I hope this will solve your problem. cheers

[BoredErica]

This thread necro is actually pretty cool. Keep up the good work.

[OC-Nathan]

So first of all: sry for the next necro:)

But after fiddling for hours(it's nearly 0300 am) I have to revise some of my old stuff: 

1. Any attempt of getting decent sidetone from my soundcard failed(tried standard drivers and monitoring options, ASIO drivers from Asus, ASIO4All, UNi xonar drivers). For one thing the latency was too high and I could differentiate between the dull sound of my voice that passed through the headphones into my ear, and the "sidetone" from the headphone itself. That interrupted my flow while speaking and since the sidetone came too late I heard it separately, which sounded like a recording of my voice, and therefore really weird. And too make matters worse I couldn't use Dolby Headphone to simulate surround sound, without the sidetone getting affected by it. Either I would turn DH off completely or my sidetone would sound even stranger.

 

2. My complaints about the bad amplifying on the Behringer XENYX 302 USB seem to originate on a fault from my side. If I plug the USB-cable from the mixer in the rear I/O I get said static, but if I plug it into one of the front USB-connectors I don't get this static, and same goes if I just power it from socket and use a stereo-to-3.5mm-cable to get the USB-mix to the computer. So if you can live with a USB-cable in the front I/O, or an additional cable going into a socket then The XENYX 302 seems like the way to go. Even If you don't have any of the cables you should be able to get this for around 70$ max and the quality without the static is really nice. Obviously not perfect but for that price it's more than awesome.

 

EDIT: One hour later and I found one more thing out: The problem with the static is not my rear I/O! The problem seems to be windows. I had no static for over half an hour, just until I set the USB-Cable as my standard recording device. At that exact moment the static started. I then disconnected it, and plugged it back in. It was fine for about 3 seconds and the moment windows noticed me plugin it in and it appearing in my recording devices tap, the static was there again. So either you never set this as your standard, or you power it over a socket and use the mentioned stereo-to-3.5mm cable. At least in theory that should resolve the issue. I haven't tested that out yet but I'll by said cable tomorrow and update this post once I know more. But right now I'm just quite pissed at MS!

 

2nd EDIT: I now got myself said stereo-to-3.5mm cables and as suspected everything works fine now. No static, good quality, adjustable sidetone. love it:)

 

If any of my descriptions should be not all that comprehensible and you need help setting this up or you run into some other problems, then just send me a message.

 

cheers

[Xiwnzr]

I normally don't post on the forums but I just had to register and make this post because that Xenyx mixer is THE solution right there. Solved all my problems when everything else failed.

 

So anyway, here's my long story of the past month:

 

I came from a pair of Logitech G35s, which is a pretty good USB headset but it wouldn't beat a headphone/ModMic combo.

 

So of course when the time came on November (earcups cracking like the cheap plastic it is) I figured it was time to invest in actual headphones. Got Sony MDRs and the ModMic 4.0 and they blow the G35 away in terms of sound quality.

 

Problem here is, the G35s were actually good on the mic side, and it did the whole sidetone thing too. My Realtek onboard soundcard can do that too but that requires both headphones/mic plugged into the motherboard jacks, and if you haven't realized, mic inputs on Realtek motherboards are ABYSMAL.

 

(For the uninitiated: Software-configurable sidetone/monitoring with no latency is available in this window. But never, never, never, NEVER USE THIS OPTION, they are NOT the same.)

 

So the mic input blows, now what? I figure, just buy a USB sound card. I drew a line for things over $50 because I wasn't about to spend more than the Modmic to get it to work right.

 

• First "solution": http://sabrent.com/category/audio/USB-SBCV (Sabrent USB adapter):
  • Intro: I found this at a local computer store and I figure I'd try this first before throwing more money at the issue. (Ironic because this itself ended up a waste)
  • Audio: This thing has decent-as-far-as-I-can-tell sound quality (disclaimer: I came from a Logitech headset, so I am NOT an audiophile) but that aside the volume is just way TOO LOUD, it operates exponentially or something. AKA The volume control in Windows goes from zero to LOUD at 0-5% and LOUD to SLIGHTLY LOUDER from then on at 5-100%. I mean if you had some expensive high impedance headphones this wouldn't be a problem at all, but then why buy this cheap POS sound card? (FAIL)
  • Microphone: Mic quality is muddy and not clear. However it has some sort of Mic Boost (tick box called AGC) which I need to use to make the ModMic loud enough to hear. (FAIL)
  • Conclusion: Volume is too loud (I think it's because of the cheap C-Media audio chipset), mic quality is muddy and not clear, however there is no loud static noise so it beats the Realtek onboard there but loses everything else.
  • Both audio and mic are botched, moving on...
• Second "solution": http://us.creative.com/p/sound-blaster/sound-blaster-x-fi-go-pro (Creative X-Fi Go Pro USB adapter):
  • Intro: I was going to opt for a Xonar U3 instead of this but the X-Fi was on sale for $20 and I assume Creative would add a sidetone feature since they focus on audio. I could not have been any more wrong.
  • Audio: This USB adapter makes noticeable crackle noises when listening to music at low volumes. I disabled all the extra sound garbage on the Creative software so this is an issue with the hardware itself. Again, I am not an audiophile, but when you can clearly hear imperfections in the audio, that's messed up. (I looked into the problem and apparently it's an impedance mismatch with my headphones, which sounds like BS because any decent pair of headphones will pick up the crackle too) Either way, the sound quality is the main problem for this product. (FAIL)
  • Microphone: Again, I need to 100% the mic volume and check off Mic Boost before my voice is loud enough. But the mic gets the job done. The Creative software lets you do sidetone but the latency is noticeable and can be distracting at high volumes. However the latency is a bit lower than the "Listen to this Device" feature on Windows, so there's that at least. (PASS)
  • Conclusion: This would work for infrequent Skype use, but the audio drives me insane and so does the sidetone latency.
  • This won't do at all, moving on...
• Third "solution": http://www.turtlebeach.com/product-detail/sound-cards-accessories/audio-advantage-amigo-ii/32 (Turtle Beach Amigo II USB adapter):
  • Intro: Before I threw any more money at this issue I needed to be sure the sidetone would be there in the next thing I buy WITHOUT latency, and Turtle Beach is actually big on that feature (referred to as Mic Monitoring http://support.turtlebeach.com/entry/830517252/). So reading Amazon reviews I found that the Amigo II does this by default in the hardware (it cannot be turned off in software) so that's good news for me because that pretty much guarantees near zero-latency.
  • Audio: Volume controls are good, it's quiet at low volumes and loud at high volumes so it's already beating the Sabrent USB. There's no crackle and audio is good and listenable unlike the X-Fi Go Pro. (PASS)
  • Mic: Monitoring works, but...the volume is just too quiet. There's no option to Mic Boost either so 100% is the limit. And the limit is not high enough. (FAIL)
  • Conclusion: This was SO CLOSE to working, but I can't use my ModMic at such a low volume.
  • Mildly frustrated at this point, add it to the pile with the rest of them.
• Fourth "solution": http://www.soundblaster.com/products/Sound-Blaster-Recon3D-Fatal1ty-Professional.aspx (Sound Blaster Recon3D Fatal1ty Professional sound card):
  • Intro: I was disappointed from the recent USB sound cards that screwed me over, so I started wondering if an actual sound card would do the job. However I couldn't really find out online if any sound cards had an option for no-latency sidetone/mic monitoring or not. (NO ONE ever talks about mic sidetone in actual sound card reviews, nor Amazon customer reviews. It's just a non-issue to most people, so outside this thread there's really zero discussion on this subject) I did however find the above-mentioned refurb sound card on sale for $30.
  • Audio: The audio amp on this card is louder than my Realtek, and I'm pretty sure it could beat all of the USB adapters I listed. (PASS)
  • Mic: Again, quiet at 100%. Nice try, we have mic boost, HA HA YEAH...or not. The noise isn't as loud as Realtek, but it's still there (If the Realtek sounds like a waterfall, then this sounds like I'm outside in the rain). Even then, the X-Fi Go Pro can do the job better, and without the static noises. Also, let's talk sidetone, the option is not there, but it's in the Creative software and the latency is terrible (it's the same as the Listen to this Device feature). (FAIL)
  • Conclusion: Nice sound, bad everything else.
  • Internal sound cards aren't going to cut it, so what now...?

At this point I was contemplating my options. A mic preamp? None of them take a 3.5mm jack and they're too expensive for what it is. Another internal sound card (Xonar DGX)? Mic latency probably would still be an issue. What if I try another USB adapter (Xonar U3)? But then mic volume becomes an issue along with the latency...

 

Now I had seen YouTube videos of people using their ModMic with the Syba SD-CM-UAUD USB (http://www.sybausa.com/productInfo.php?iid=248), but the Sabrent USB adapter left a bad taste in my mouth (both use the C-Media audio chipset, aka "loud volume problems") so I didn't try it.

 

I also saw the Syba DAC mentioned earlier in this thread and considered that as an option. However the mic volume was still a grey area.

 

But then I looked at the Xenyx 302USB mixer and there was no turning back. It was like a complete all-in-one solution to my problems. Mic preamp solves the low mic volume issue. Line-inputs solves pretty much any potential audio issue. And sidetone is obviously solved too.

 

I have it plugged direct into the USB right now and I don't even use my RCA-to-3.5mm cables, the audio is clear and sounds great (PASS). The mic is also loud and clear and adjustable gain levels mean I can actually have under 100% and still be heard (PASS).

 

One nice benefit of the mixer personally is that the ModMic 4.0 has a mute switch that makes an audible click sound when used. But with the Xenyx I can just use my hand and quietly dial down the mic for the same effect with none of the click.

 

So in the end:

• What I tried but didn't work: Realtek onboard, Sabrent USB adapter, Creative X-Fi Go Pro USB adapter, Turtle Beach Amigo II USB adapter, Sound Blaster Recon3D Fatal1ty Professional soundcard
• What I wanted to try but didn't: Syba SD-CM-UAUD USB adapter, Syba DAC, ASUS Xonar U3 USB adapter, ASUS Xonar DGX soundcard
• What works: Behringer Xenyx 302USB mixer

FINAL CONCLUSION/SOLUTION: Got a ModMic and want sidetone? Do yourself the favor: save the money/time that I wasted, and throw down the $50 for this because for the price it'll beat anything else.

 

 

EDIT (12/31/2014):

 

1. Alright, just want to add on to my post with some potential untested alternatives that I looked into. Years before I had the Logitech G35, I had a Logitech G330. If you look at it's product layout here, the headset also included a 3.5mm to USB adapter. Now I've tried this thing and it works extremely well. It completely passes in terms of mic quality with near-zero monitoring/sidetone latency and crystal clear and loud mic volume. It seems Logitech really pushes sidetone as a feature in their products as well. But the reason I don't use it was that this thing outputted some overwhelming bass, I'm talking huge vibration in your headphones. So using that specific adapter was out of the question.

 

However, a new version of this is available on Amazon (Logitech USB to 3.5mm Jack Stereo + Mic. Audio Adapter) for around $20. I'm not sure if it is still bassy, but reviews don't mention it and they are positive, with one review confirming that it still has sidetone. So this can be a cheaper alternative to the mixer, and I know for a fact the mic quality on this adapter is amazing with a ModMic.

 

2. If $20 is still high, we can go even cheaper. I had mentioned the Syba SD-CM-UAUD USB adapter in my original post. I never tried it but it is recommended in the ModMic site FAQ, and videos on YouTube showcase the quality of it well. Many Amazon reviews are positive and one Amazon review also confirms sidetone being available. So this is even cheaper alternative at less than $10. Still unclear on the loud volume issue so keep that in mind.

 

3. ASUS announced a newer version of the Xonar U3, which is the Xonar U3 Plus: http://rog.asus.com/394392014/gaming-sound-cards/asus-announces-xonar-u3-plus-pocket-sized-usb-sound-with-headphone-amp/. Apparently this one has extremely-low microphone latency (but doesn't mention sidetone/monitoring anywhere which worries me). It's not out yet, but I would be wary with ASUS products since they typically only have delayed software monitoring. Definitely don't bet on the original Xonar U3 having good sidetone either.

 

It's pretty strange to see that only the cheap USB sound cards do sidetone/monitoring while the more pricey ones don't. Turtle Beach/Logitech/Syba can do it but the actual sound card manufacturers Creative/Asus barely have it on their products if ever.

 

If you do end up considering an inexpensive USB adapter over the mixer since $50 is not small sum of money, I can only point you in the direction of the Logitech USB or Syba USB. I have not tested them so until someone who has them chimes in, caveat emptor.

[krob]

Hi Thomas, [edited]

 

Not sure if you're still interested in this topic or not, but I've been looking at the same thing since I can't stand not hearing myself talk through the headset. There are solutions, but none of them are free (although some are fairly inexpensive).

 

1) Find a USB Microphone with direct headphone monitoring. These will appear like both an audio input and output device to Windows, so you have to set the PC sound output to the USB mic's headphone device. Then you'll hear PC sound + mic signal mixed together.

 

Some, like the Blue Yeti (already mentioned above) and the ATR2100 (dynamic) have a physical volume knob for the headphones. Others, like some Samson USB mics (C01U Pro, Go Mic, Meteor mic, etc) control the headphone mic volume through software (more of a pain, IMO).

 

2) The Behringer Xenyx 302USB (http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/302USB.aspx) is a small USB-powered mixer/interface that goes for about $50. You can use either an XLR mic or standard 3.5mm (1/8") PC mic connector (just not both at the same time), so this is really a great solution and very versatile.

 

3) It turns out that a lot of the USB sound interfaces have a zero latency monitoring feature controlled in software.

 

In Windows,

- right-click on the speaker icon in the sys-tray

- open the Playback devices (*not* the recording devices tab),

- select the properties for the USB sound device you want to use (right-click->properties or left-click->properties button)

- select the 'Levels' tab and if there's a microphone there, unmute and adjust the level.

 

Unlike when you do this in the 'Recording Devices' dialog under the 'Listen' tab, which gives a horrible delay, monitoring from the playback tab doesn't cause any delay (on my devices at least).

 

 

HTH and Good luck,

 

DRC

I just wanted to say that you rock, this totally fixed my issue with zero feedback into my headphones. I was having a hard time using a pair of ATH-M50's with a modmic because the headphones remove like 30db of external volume so when I spoke, I couldn't literally hear my own pronunciations.

[cmbezln]

On 12/29/2014 at 6:21 AM, Xiwnzr said:

I normally don't post on the forums but I just had to register and make this post because that Xenyx mixer is THE solution right there. Solved all my problems when everything else failed.

 

So anyway, here's my long story of the past month:

 

I came from a pair of Logitech G35s, which is a pretty good USB headset but it wouldn't beat a headphone/ModMic combo.

 

So of course when the time came on November (earcups cracking like the cheap plastic it is) I figured it was time to invest in actual headphones. Got Sony MDRs and the ModMic 4.0 and they blow the G35 away in terms of sound quality.

 

Problem here is, the G35s were actually good on the mic side, and it did the whole sidetone thing too. My Realtek onboard soundcard can do that too but that requires both headphones/mic plugged into the motherboard jacks, and if you haven't realized, mic inputs on Realtek motherboards are ABYSMAL.

 

(For the uninitiated: Software-configurable sidetone/monitoring with no latency is available in this window. But never, never, never, NEVER USE THIS OPTION, they are NOT the same.)

 

So the mic input blows, now what? I figure, just buy a USB sound card. I drew a line for things over $50 because I wasn't about to spend more than the Modmic to get it to work right.

 

• First "solution": http://sabrent.com/category/audio/USB-SBCV (Sabrent USB adapter):
  • Intro: I found this at a local computer store and I figure I'd try this first before throwing more money at the issue. (Ironic because this itself ended up a waste)
  • Audio: This thing has decent-as-far-as-I-can-tell sound quality (disclaimer: I came from a Logitech headset, so I am NOT an audiophile) but that aside the volume is just way TOO LOUD, it operates exponentially or something. AKA The volume control in Windows goes from zero to LOUD at 0-5% and LOUD to SLIGHTLY LOUDER from then on at 5-100%. I mean if you had some expensive high impedance headphones this wouldn't be a problem at all, but then why buy this cheap POS sound card? (FAIL)
  • Microphone: Mic quality is muddy and not clear. However it has some sort of Mic Boost (tick box called AGC) which I need to use to make the ModMic loud enough to hear. (FAIL)
  • Conclusion: Volume is too loud (I think it's because of the cheap C-Media audio chipset), mic quality is muddy and not clear, however there is no loud static noise so it beats the Realtek onboard there but loses everything else.
  • Both audio and mic are botched, moving on...
• Second "solution": http://us.creative.com/p/sound-blaster/sound-blaster-x-fi-go-pro (Creative X-Fi Go Pro USB adapter):
  • Intro: I was going to opt for a Xonar U3 instead of this but the X-Fi was on sale for $20 and I assume Creative would add a sidetone feature since they focus on audio. I could not have been any more wrong.
  • Audio: This USB adapter makes noticeable crackle noises when listening to music at low volumes. I disabled all the extra sound garbage on the Creative software so this is an issue with the hardware itself. Again, I am not an audiophile, but when you can clearly hear imperfections in the audio, that's messed up. (I looked into the problem and apparently it's an impedance mismatch with my headphones, which sounds like BS because any decent pair of headphones will pick up the crackle too) Either way, the sound quality is the main problem for this product. (FAIL)
  • Microphone: Again, I need to 100% the mic volume and check off Mic Boost before my voice is loud enough. But the mic gets the job done. The Creative software lets you do sidetone but the latency is noticeable and can be distracting at high volumes. However the latency is a bit lower than the "Listen to this Device" feature on Windows, so there's that at least. (PASS)
  • Conclusion: This would work for infrequent Skype use, but the audio drives me insane and so does the sidetone latency.
  • This won't do at all, moving on...
• Third "solution": http://www.turtlebeach.com/product-detail/sound-cards-accessories/audio-advantage-amigo-ii/32 (Turtle Beach Amigo II USB adapter):
  • Intro: Before I threw any more money at this issue I needed to be sure the sidetone would be there in the next thing I buy WITHOUT latency, and Turtle Beach is actually big on that feature (referred to as Mic Monitoring http://support.turtlebeach.com/entry/830517252/). So reading Amazon reviews I found that the Amigo II does this by default in the hardware (it cannot be turned off in software) so that's good news for me because that pretty much guarantees near zero-latency.
  • Audio: Volume controls are good, it's quiet at low volumes and loud at high volumes so it's already beating the Sabrent USB. There's no crackle and audio is good and listenable unlike the X-Fi Go Pro. (PASS)
  • Mic: Monitoring works, but...the volume is just too quiet. There's no option to Mic Boost either so 100% is the limit. And the limit is not high enough. (FAIL)
  • Conclusion: This was SO CLOSE to working, but I can't use my ModMic at such a low volume.
  • Mildly frustrated at this point, add it to the pile with the rest of them.
• Fourth "solution": http://www.soundblaster.com/products/Sound-Blaster-Recon3D-Fatal1ty-Professional.aspx (Sound Blaster Recon3D Fatal1ty Professional sound card):
  • Intro: I was disappointed from the recent USB sound cards that screwed me over, so I started wondering if an actual sound card would do the job. However I couldn't really find out online if any sound cards had an option for no-latency sidetone/mic monitoring or not. (NO ONE ever talks about mic sidetone in actual sound card reviews, nor Amazon customer reviews. It's just a non-issue to most people, so outside this thread there's really zero discussion on this subject) I did however find the above-mentioned refurb sound card on sale for $30.
  • Audio: The audio amp on this card is louder than my Realtek, and I'm pretty sure it could beat all of the USB adapters I listed. (PASS)
  • Mic: Again, quiet at 100%. Nice try, we have mic boost, HA HA YEAH...or not. The noise isn't as loud as Realtek, but it's still there (If the Realtek sounds like a waterfall, then this sounds like I'm outside in the rain). Even then, the X-Fi Go Pro can do the job better, and without the static noises. Also, let's talk sidetone, the option is not there, but it's in the Creative software and the latency is terrible (it's the same as the Listen to this Device feature). (FAIL)
  • Conclusion: Nice sound, bad everything else.
  • Internal sound cards aren't going to cut it, so what now...?

At this point I was contemplating my options. A mic preamp? None of them take a 3.5mm jack and they're too expensive for what it is. Another internal sound card (Xonar DGX)? Mic latency probably would still be an issue. What if I try another USB adapter (Xonar U3)? But then mic volume becomes an issue along with the latency...

 

Now I had seen YouTube videos of people using their ModMic with the Syba SD-CM-UAUD USB (http://www.sybausa.com/productInfo.php?iid=248), but the Sabrent USB adapter left a bad taste in my mouth (both use the C-Media audio chipset, aka "loud volume problems") so I didn't try it.

 

I also saw the Syba DAC mentioned earlier in this thread and considered that as an option. However the mic volume was still a grey area.

 

But then I looked at the Xenyx 302USB mixer and there was no turning back. It was like a complete all-in-one solution to my problems. Mic preamp solves the low mic volume issue. Line-inputs solves pretty much any potential audio issue. And sidetone is obviously solved too.

 

I have it plugged direct into the USB right now and I don't even use my RCA-to-3.5mm cables, the audio is clear and sounds great (PASS). The mic is also loud and clear and adjustable gain levels mean I can actually have under 100% and still be heard (PASS).

 

One nice benefit of the mixer personally is that the ModMic 4.0 has a mute switch that makes an audible click sound when used. But with the Xenyx I can just use my hand and quietly dial down the mic for the same effect with none of the click.

 

So in the end:

• What I tried but didn't work: Realtek onboard, Sabrent USB adapter, Creative X-Fi Go Pro USB adapter, Turtle Beach Amigo II USB adapter, Sound Blaster Recon3D Fatal1ty Professional soundcard
• What I wanted to try but didn't: Syba SD-CM-UAUD USB adapter, Syba DAC, ASUS Xonar U3 USB adapter, ASUS Xonar DGX soundcard
• What works: Behringer Xenyx 302USB mixer

FINAL CONCLUSION/SOLUTION: Got a ModMic and want sidetone? Do yourself the favor: save the money/time that I wasted, and throw down the $50 for this because for the price it'll beat anything else.

 

 

EDIT (12/31/2014):

 

1. Alright, just want to add on to my post with some potential untested alternatives that I looked into. Years before I had the Logitech G35, I had a Logitech G330. If you look at it's product layout here, the headset also included a 3.5mm to USB adapter. Now I've tried this thing and it works extremely well. It completely passes in terms of mic quality with near-zero monitoring/sidetone latency and crystal clear and loud mic volume. It seems Logitech really pushes sidetone as a feature in their products as well. But the reason I don't use it was that this thing outputted some overwhelming bass, I'm talking huge vibration in your headphones. So using that specific adapter was out of the question.

 

However, a new version of this is available on Amazon (Logitech USB to 3.5mm Jack Stereo + Mic. Audio Adapter) for around $20. I'm not sure if it is still bassy, but reviews don't mention it and they are positive, with one review confirming that it still has sidetone. So this can be a cheaper alternative to the mixer, and I know for a fact the mic quality on this adapter is amazing with a ModMic.

 

2. If $20 is still high, we can go even cheaper. I had mentioned the Syba SD-CM-UAUD USB adapter in my original post. I never tried it but it is recommended in the ModMic site FAQ, and videos on YouTube showcase the quality of it well. Many Amazon reviews are positive and one Amazon review also confirms sidetone being available. So this is even cheaper alternative at less than $10. Still unclear on the loud volume issue so keep that in mind.

 

3. ASUS announced a newer version of the Xonar U3, which is the Xonar U3 Plus: http://rog.asus.com/394392014/gaming-sound-cards/asus-announces-xonar-u3-plus-pocket-sized-usb-sound-with-headphone-amp/. Apparently this one has extremely-low microphone latency (but doesn't mention sidetone/monitoring anywhere which worries me). It's not out yet, but I would be wary with ASUS products since they typically only have delayed software monitoring. Definitely don't bet on the original Xonar U3 having good sidetone either.

 

It's pretty strange to see that only the cheap USB sound cards do sidetone/monitoring while the more pricey ones don't. Turtle Beach/Logitech/Syba can do it but the actual sound card manufacturers Creative/Asus barely have it on their products if ever.

 

If you do end up considering an inexpensive USB adapter over the mixer since $50 is not small sum of money, I can only point you in the direction of the Logitech USB or Syba USB. I have not tested them so until someone who has them chimes in, caveat emptor.

So I was facing this same problem/need and found this thread and followed your advice and bought the behringer xenyx 302USB and everything was great until I went to play a game (playerunknown battlegrounds), when I found out that the Behringer was routing all my USB in audio from my PC into the microphone for some reason, so all they heard was the feedback of the game audio and couldnt hear me.

Currently going back on the hunt, probably going to give up and just buy a "gaming" headset 

[seduce_me]

Dude start a new thread and don't go around reviving threads

[Axersia]

Hey, I know thread necro is frowned upon, but there's so much useful information here that it's a little wasteful to just start a new one.

I did some research into the subject myself and managed to find a solution that's a bit more elegant and versatile than the Behringer 302USB (not to mention cheaper).

It's the Behringer MA400 headphone amplifier/mic monitor, a device specifically built for this purpose. It also terminates in an analog mic out so you're not forced to use USB.

 

The only catch is that it uses XLR ports for the mic in and out, but that's a problem easily solved with some cheap cables. You're gonna need a male 3.5mm to female XLR cable, and a 3.5mm female to male XLR adapter. You can get these for as low as 2 bucks on AliExpress, but if you're in a hurry and wanna get them on Amazon it's obviously gonna cost a bit more.

 

When the device is powered off, it still acts as a mic passthrough, so you only need to turn it on for the sidetone function. It also has a line in port so you can pipe in your game audio.

 

I've attached a picture to give you an idea how it could look like.

Hopefully this helps someone out.
 

[Laurenz00]

On 30.3.2018 at 3:20 AM, Axersia said:

Hey, I know thread necro is frowned upon, but there's so much useful information here that it's a little wasteful to just start a new one.

I did some research into the subject myself and managed to find a solution that's a bit more elegant and versatile than the Behringer 302USB (not to mention cheaper).

It's the Behringer MA400 headphone amplifier/mic monitor, a device specifically built for this purpose. It also terminates in an analog mic out so you're not forced to use USB.

 

The only catch is that it uses XLR ports for the mic in and out, but that's a problem easily solved with some cheap cables. You're gonna need a male 3.5mm to female XLR cable, and a 3.5mm female to male XLR adapter. You can get these for as low as 2 bucks on AliExpress, but if you're in a hurry and wanna get them on Amazon it's obviously gonna cost a bit more.

 

When the device is powered off, it still acts as a passthrough, so you only need to turn it on for the monitor function. It also has a line in port so you can pipe in your game audio.

 

I've attached a picture to give you an idea how it could look like.

Hopefully this helps someone out.
 

Hey,

 

that solution sounds pretty cheap and good. But I am not really into soundmixing and a newbie what belongs to that. So I dont really understand how this works if you still want to use your soundcard as Headphone amp? As i understood it you put your microphone and your headphone into that mixer and the mixer itself is somehow connected to your pc. But does this solution work if i still want to use my stx essence?

best regards

 

[Axersia]

5 hours ago, Laurenz00 said:

Hey,

 

that solution sounds pretty cheap and good. But I am not really into soundmixing and a newbie what belongs to that. So I dont really understand how this works if you still want to use your soundcard as Headphone amp? As i understood it you put your microphone and your headphone into that mixer and the mixer itself is somehow connected to your pc. But does this solution work if i still want to use my stx essence?

best regards

 

Does the STX Essence not have lag-free sidetone built in? Seems like it should for a card that expensive.

You could try to activate it by going to Control Panel -> Audio/Sound -> Playback devices -> STX Essence -> Properties -> Levels and then unmute the mic/line-in/pink-in.

 

If it doesn't, then you'd need to route your PC audio into the MA400. It's not quite an "audiophile grade" device, but is fine for most people. If you have any effects/filters turned on for your card, they will still come through even with your headset plugged into the MA400.

 

For example, when I have my Sound Blaster E1 USB card routed into the MA400, I still get all the bass, EQ, crystallizer, etc. settings I have turned on in the Sound Blaster software suite.

So in that sense, yes, it'll work with your STX Essence. But if you want your audio to come directly from your card, there's no real solution to the problem, except "make sure your high-end card has sidetone built in."

 

One possible solution I can still think of is to use some in-ear headphones for the mic monitor, and wear your regular headset over that.

[Laurenz00]

15 hours ago, Axersia said:

Does the STX Essence not have lag-free sidetone built in? Seems like it should for a card that expensive.

You could try to activate it by going to Control Panel -> Audio/Sound -> Playback devices -> STX Essence -> Properties -> Levels and then unmute the mic/line-in/pink-in.

 

If it doesn't, then you'd need to route your PC audio into the MA400. It's not quite an "audiophile grade" device, but is fine for most people. If you have any effects/filters turned on for your card, they will still come through even with your headset plugged into the MA400.

 

For example, when I have my Sound Blaster E1 USB card routed into the MA400, I still get all the bass, EQ, crystallizer, etc. settings I have turned on in the Sound Blaster software suite.

So in that sense, yes, it'll work with your STX Essence. But if you want your audio to come directly from your card, there's no real solution to the problem, except "make sure your high-end card has sidetone built in."

 

One possible solution I can still think of is to use some in-ear headphones for the mic monitor, and wear your regular headset over that.

In the Mixer option you can click on the record sign and there you can enable monitoring but just with a delay. I tried to get monitoring with a program called reaper, it worked. But just when i open the program and active it. But then all the other soundsources like games or music where hidden so i couldnt use it for my purpose.

 

So my STX converts the sound and makes it listening ready and then I send it into the MA400 which will amp it again? So thats why its not "audiophile grade"? I am not an audiophile but I want to use my STX Soundcard and dont want to get the Soundoutput from an cheamp AMP. Then my STX would be useless i think so.

 

And the solution with the in-ears sounds funny but not really the perfect solution for me^^

 

thanks for the info!

[andyfoz]

yes thread revival!

 

I just want to say a massive thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread as I have just lived the no side tone nightmare.

 

 

After 8 years of using the Logitech g35 gaming headset and not even knowing what side tone was my trusty headset has given up (mic had become crackly)

 

 

Thought OK im going to get something decent to replace the g35, this came in the form of:

 

 

Beyer dynamic DT 770 PRO Studio Headphones - 80 Ohm & Modmic 4

 

 

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIz4g92S_fA

 

 

I also went a step further and purchased the new creative AE5 sound card to power everything.

 

 

So it arrives, it sounds awesome, positional audio like I have never experienced, Bass like no other headphones ive ever heard, im in heaven!!!!!

 

 

No, when I talk its like ive got my fingers in my ears, im shouting, im not shouting, im getting muddled and tongue tied, OMG this is awful.

 

 

So I trawl internet for answers, finds out all about side tone and how I don’t have it anymore! Maybe I didn’t need it back then but 8years of side tone conditioning and theres no going back.

 

 

Due to stumbling across this Mecca of side tone information I was able to order a TEKNET USB soundcard

 

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TeckNet-Aluminum-USB-Sound-Card-External-Stereo-Sound-Adapter-For-Windows-and-Ma/273104211988?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

 

 

Unfortunately this thing still hasn’t arrived so I got a behringer 302usb on ebay. Hooked up the USB, put the headset in the headset ports, fiddled about with buttons and knobs not knowing what the hell I was doing and boom side tone appeared and very adjustable side tone at that. Then I hopped on discord and used a friend to carry some final tweaks so it sounded sweet both ends.

 

 

So like another poster above, I didn’t get chance to order a USB sound card. And Im so glad I didn’t.

 

 

This little 302usb is also a mobile pod cast studio, you can inject music into games like pubg from your phone at full quality (if that’s your thing) and everything is infinitely adjustable.

 

 

During the initial set up just to make sure it powered on and to have a quick fiddle I bypassed the creative AE5 SoundBlaster, during that initial test I quickly learned the AE5 was now not needed.

 

 

The 302usb sounds every bit as good and has a way louder headphone out more than what is safe, way more. Using the 302 for positional audio in PUBG is also just as good and I have decided to sell the AE5.

 

 

I simply had to come on here and say thanks, without the 302usb the modmic mic 4 sounds hissy to other players and I had multiple comments saying I sounded better before when I was on my G35 headset.

 

 

This is due to not using the analogue connections of the Beyer/modmic in conjunction with the analogue connections of the creative AE5. Now only one digital USB connection to the pc from the 302usb

 

I would also like to hear from anyone who tryed the logitech usb soundcard available now on ebay for £5, does that work also?

 

Big thanks to everyone on this thread this was a massive deal to me and i signed up just to let you know, THANK YOU!

[LudicrouslyLiam]

On 5/2/2018 at 11:33 PM, Axersia said:

Does the STX Essence not have lag-free sidetone built in? Seems like it should for a card that expensive.

You could try to activate it by going to Control Panel -> Audio/Sound -> Playback devices -> STX Essence -> Properties -> Levels and then unmute the mic/line-in/pink-in.

 

If it doesn't, then you'd need to route your PC audio into the MA400. It's not quite an "audiophile grade" device, but is fine for most people. If you have any effects/filters turned on for your card, they will still come through even with your headset plugged into the MA400.

 

For example, when I have my Sound Blaster E1 USB card routed into the MA400, I still get all the bass, EQ, crystallizer, etc. settings I have turned on in the Sound Blaster software suite.

So in that sense, yes, it'll work with your STX Essence. But if you want your audio to come directly from your card, there's no real solution to the problem, except "make sure your high-end card has sidetone built in."

 

One possible solution I can still think of is to use some in-ear headphones for the mic monitor, and wear your regular headset over that.

hey, I was thinking of buying this amp but was unsure of the cables I need/if it will work for me at all. I have a Phillips SPH9500/00 headphone with a V-MODA boompro mic that plugs into the headphone and I plug the 3.5mm jack into my PS4 controller. It also came with additional audio cables/splitters but I'm not sure if I can use them. If I was to buy this, would this work for me, and if so do I need to buy those two cables you mention in your previous comment? 

[Guest]

@andyfoz I created an account on LinusTechTips just to say thankyou, specifically to you, for your advice about the behringer 302usb and the helpful photo of it that you posted.

And also to say thank you to everyone else for their contributions in this thread.

The lack of sidetone was a BIG problem for me - I play a WW2 flight simulator and speak with other pilots (wingman) during 'battle'. Without sidetone, with my headset on (and only able to hear game sounds and other pilots speaking to me - my own voice very muffled), in the heat of battle, I end up speaking way too loudly and my wife has certainly had enough of me 'yelling at the people on the computer'

I purchased the behringer 302usb and it solved the problem 100%.

Your solution has saved my retirement hobby and I will be able to keep playing.

 

Thank you all so much.

 

PS: Linus - I love your YT vids.

 

[ShearMe]

OMG I've never seen a single thread be necro'd so many times. 

 

For those searchers that find this in the future, this is also known as "Mic Monitoring" in the feature list of products

• audio interfaces and mixers DO have this capability
• USB "external soundcards" that come with software probably have this feature
• Most microphones with a headphone port can do this

 

For headset users, Turtle Beach makes dongles with Mic Monitoring for their headsets. 

Here's one for PC. | Here's one for an Xbox controller. | Here's one for PS3/PS4.