Creating a Headset - The Side-tone Problem

[andyfoz]

your welcome, the behringer 302 is a sidetone god tier device. Glad to have helped.

[Guest]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidetone

 

[Robert Ehrling]

Got the Behringer Xenyx 302USB and together with my Beyerdynamic MMX 300 Gen2 I got a nice sidetone! I sold my Creative Sound BlasterX AE-5 as the Behringer was way better and finally I can enjoy my favorite analog closed back headset with sidetone, thanks for this thread!

 

 

[intercede007]

I love this thread and it has helped me quite a bit over the years. 

My EPOS GSX1000 has a failing input port causing popping and other audio problems and I need to replace it. I was looking to change to Schiit Hel or other product but couldn't find sidetone or mic monitoring mentioned in their specs or documentation. I reached out and was told none of their products offer it

TLDR; Schiit doesn't offer sidetone in their products as of 2021

Guess I'm buying another GSX1000. It has been a great product that does exactly what I want it to, but the failing hardware is kinda meh. 


 

[Brandon D]

Hey, just thought I'd share my solution with y'all, as I've also toiled over a solution to this for many nights. I found the Google USB-C to 3.5mm adapter actually works quite well for this. I have my DT 900 Pro X and my Modmic Uni plugged into an adapter like this, and I feed the plug into the Google adapter. The google adapter is a TRRS plug, so it supports headsets, and it even has 0 latency sidetone! What's nice is the volume of the sidetone playback is independent of the headphone or microphone levels. So you can choose how loudly you hear yourself, without having to change your headphone or microphone volume. All you have to do is:

1. Open the sound control panel.
2. Go to the Playback tab.
3. Select the Google dongle adapter and click "properties".
4. Go to the Levels tab.
5. Adjust to microphone levels to adjust the sidetone playback volume.

Hope this helps solve the headache for others who come across this problem

[Tenfresh]

I also can't thank y'all enough for how helpful this thread was in my sidetone quest. It's where I learned about the MicroMon MA400 — though I couldn't get it working with the adapter approach pictured so after finally getting it working I wrote up the detailed guide below for those who follow. (Apologies it's in all bold — pasted that way from gdocs and for some reason I can't turn it off, oh well!)

 

I'm also keeping a 'living' version of the guide here in case of updates:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qbCOD040pdwmSTRSkaDGDUMypmsfkzPrSWfCjcaNBgI/edit

 

As you'll find below, I tried out the XENYX 320, and while I love the simplicity of hookup, I found the actual controls to be annoyingly complex — but perhaps I was doing it wrong. If someone who uses one figured out a simple way they like and wanted to write it up for me I'd love to add that to the guide. Thanks!

 

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Sidetone (AKA Mic Monitoring) Rig Guide

 

 

When my wife and I started having to share an office during the pandemic, we both took to using a pair of gaming headphones for our work zoom meetings — which sometimes had to happen at the same time. I disliked the awkward muffling of my own voice in my ears, and how it made it harder for me to keep my voice down (something already not easy for me!). I knew what I needed, but not what it was called. After a little googling, I went down the sidetone rabbit hole.

 

I purchased and experimented with a number of methods, and after MUCH trial and error, I landed on a rig based around a $20 Behringer MA400 unit. I love how this approach has such simple controls to turn off the sidetone quickly if desired  (if I’m trying to  focus and WANT the muffle or am doing audio mixing), and finetune the adjustment to dial in that sweet spot where the headphones just… disappear (aurally at least!).

 

I had a LOT of issues finding the right combination of adapters required, and I very nearly gave up. Turns out there are lots and lots of ways you can physically adapt these connections to each other which will not actually function. So, I wanted to share the conclusion of my quest here, for anyone it might benefit.

 

All my headphones have a single 1/8” TRRS plugs—the “mini” size also commonly referred to as 3.5mm—with audio and microphone connections all in one. I wanted to be able to go directly into my MacBook Pro port with a TRRS plug as well. I still can’t believe a simple little dedicated TRRS-in to TRRS-out sidetone generator box doesn’t exist!

 

On the Behringer XENYX 302USB

 

If you’re looking for the simplest solution, I did purchase and try out a Behringer XENYX 302USB mini-mixer. It’s definitely the easiest turnkey option available for a sidetone generator, connecting to the computer via USB. It requires no adapters to work properly (beyond a Y-splitter to convert the headset’s single plug into separate audio and microphone plugs); and therefore despite the more expensive core unit at $70, it ends up being cheaper than the other approach at ~$90!

 

On the downside, it was much more fiddly to adjust, with many of the controls you’d want to be independent tied together in confusing ways. I’d often have to turn one dial up, then turn down another, to get the desired result—such as raising the sidetone level in the mix, while not increasing the volume of the computer audio. 

 

It also has the mixed-blessing feature of routing your computer audio back into the mic channel — meaning if I was on a zoom call, the participants could hear the sound from my computer as well as my microphone. At times, that could be handy, but you probably don’t want that on all the time! (Note that the MA400 rig does this a little bit as well, but I think it’s just the result of a small amount of signal bleeding due to all the adapters, and isn’t very prominent.)

 

Terminology:

 

Here is some helpful terminology before we get into the instructions.

 

• The 1/8" (3.5mm) jack is the standard ‘mini’ plug size used for most consumer audio devices. 

• TRS (Tip, Ring, Sleeve) is the standard, stereo, audio-only plug for a pair of headphones.

• TRRS (Tip, Ring, Ring, Sleeve) is a plug with the extra connection for a microphone that is used by a lot of gaming headsets. (Though some split out into a pair of TRS plugs, one for audio and one for the mic, in which case you’d want a Y-splitter that joins the back into one TRRS plug for this rig)

• The 1/4" (6.35mm) jack is the larger version of the above plugs, often associated with guitar amps. (Here pictured as TRS/stereo)

• XLR is the large, robust 3-prong plug that’s used for professional audio and stage gear.

 

Component Guide

 

What follows is a detailed breakdown of each adapter's type/specification. Believe it or not I tried to use as few separate adapters and cables as was possible, but this is the best I could accomplish!

 

Here’s a link to an Amazon wishlist with all the components I used: https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/27JCD24XXCON1?ref_=wl_share.

 

If you’re looking to avoid Amazon, let me shout out Sweetwater. I bought the MA400 itself from them and they really tried to assist me in getting this to work. Ultimately, the adapters required were too esoteric to all come from them, however. I also purchased some parts I tried out from B&H along the journey.

 

 

1. 1/8" Male TRRS Y-Splitter to XLR Female and 1/8" TRS Female (x2)

   • Two of these are used. The XLR to 1/8" was the most finicky connection to get working by a wide margin. I tried a number of different ways that partially worked—the computer could hear the audio from the microphone, but the MA400 couldn’t hear it to mix it back into the monitor channel—before finding an all-in-one splitter that worked.

2. XLR male to male adapter

3. 1/8" TRRS Female to Female adapter

   • This is a part where you might be tempted to use one you have laying around, but be careful that this *needs* to be TRRS specifically and not TRS; which is pretty much impossible to distinguish by eye!

4. 1/8" TRS male to male stereo audio cable

   • Here I went with the right-angle connections for a cleaner layout, but any 1/8" stereo audio cable will do. I did try to use a direct male-to-male coupler, but it stretched the Y-splitter too much.

5. Your headset!

6. Behringer MICROMON MA400 Ultra-Compact Monitor Headphone Amplifier

   • The beautiful little unit at the heart of it all — never meant for this use. Ironic that it’s only $20, surrounded by adapters that end up being twice as expensive!

7. 1/8" TRS Female to 1/4" TRS Male adapter

   • A very common part you may have already.

8. 1/8" TRS Male to Male adapter

   • You could use any short 1/8" stereo audio cable you have here, but I wanted to keep it as compact as possible.

9. 1/8" TRRS Female to Male extension cable

   • Depending on how your desk is set up you may not need this; or may want a long one so your sidetone controls can sit far away from the computer input.

 

[Tenfresh]

Another great unit has been brought to my attention; the PreSonus Revelator io44 USB-C Audio Interface.

 

It's quite pricey at $180 just to get sidetone; but with that TRRS 1/8" port right on the front,  it's far and away the cleanest all-in-one unit I've come across. Adjusting the main level and sidetone levels is as simple as pressing in the main adjustment dial to cycle through three options and dial to adjust.

 

 

 

[andyfoz]

I don’t want to rain on your parade @tenfresh my friend especially as you went all out to describe you’re device and how to do assemble it but I think you are somewhat muddying the waters here.

While youre contraption probably works it offers alot less functionality, costs a lot more and is a Frankenstein’s monster of a device. No one is going to construct that over an off the shelf proven piece of plug and play USB hardware.

The 302 has infinitely more control over the sound parameters and runs off usb eliminating hiss from the analogue components.

I could go on but ill end up sounding rude and that is not my intention and im glad you came up with a device for youre needs. You don’t need a y splitter for the 302 if you are using higher end devices with separate mics and headphones and that is where we lost our sidetone to begin with after upgrading from a gaming headset.