Packet loss between computer and modem router even after replacing?

[Wetcloth3]

Hi, 

 

I have had severe packet loss occurring within my wi-fi network, which has made me unable to connect to game servers properly, and caused significant lagging. 

 

After performing traceroutes and using pingplotter, it became apparent that the packet loss was primarily from the first step (computer to router/modem) (see image). *Note, I had a router modem 2 in 1. I replaced the router modem (myrepublic wifi hub+) with a TP-link VR600V, which seemed to eliminate packet loss and latency at steps after the first, but still has significant packet loss at the first step (99%+). I have tried altering router settings such as channel, bandwidth and connecting to both 2.4 GHz or 5 GHz bands. I also have the latest drivers and firmware on the network card and modem router. The packet loss is also reduced to around 1% when connecting via ethernet cable to my laptop, but this is not an option for my desktop. This makes me believe there is a problem with the wi-fi capabilities of the router, however it seems strange this occurred between two routers (one brand new and expensive). 

 

Any help is appreciated as I am lost as to what to do next.

 

Thanks, Michael 

[Bad5ector]

Have you tried a different WiFi card on the Desktop?

[Wetcloth3]

5 minutes ago, Bad5ector said:

Have you tried a different WiFi card on the Desktop?

Yeah I replaced my old one at the same time, so hopefully no problem there.

[Bad5ector]

Does your laptop have same packet loss when connected to WiFi?

 

If so, are you in an apartment or near a bunch of other wifi hotspots? Perhaps you need to adjust the channel on your router.

[Wetcloth3]

Just now, Bad5ector said:

Does your laptop have same packet loss when connected to WiFi?

 

If so, are you in an apartment or near a bunch of other wifi hotspots? Perhaps you need to adjust the channel on your router.

Yeah it was present across 3 different devices, and I tried changing bandwidths and channels to no avail. I am also in a relatively quiet area so there should be no major interferences.

[Bad5ector]

Hmm interesting. Almost sounds like environmental. Since you say you replaced the router already with similar results and Ethernet works as expected. Any new piece of electronics added to the house? Anything new with the electrical? TBH I'm grasping at straws here... I never liked wifi and will avoid it whenever possible for reasons such as this.  

[Wetcloth3]

Literally nothing im aware of, to be honest its been a bit on an ongoing thing and I only bothered to commit to fixing it yesterday. Its also strange because I only have the router next door, and I still get the same results when holding my laptop next to the router. very weird. I am even wondering at this point if I just ended up with 2 dodgey network cards/routers. Dont really want to buy another to test this though...

[Wetcloth3]

19 minutes ago, Bad5ector said:

Hmm interesting. Almost sounds like environmental. Since you say you replaced the router already with similar results and Ethernet works as expected. Any new piece of electronics added to the house? Anything new with the electrical? TBH I'm grasping at straws here... I never liked wifi and will avoid it whenever possible for reasons such as this.  

Sorry forgot to quote ^^^

 

[Bad5ector]

Honestly, I have seen this before back in 802.11 B/G days, with a wrt54g router. I could have the laptop right next to the router and it would be near impossible to even connect and when it did, wouldn't actually connect to anything outside. For me it was the channel, as I was living in a townhouse at the bottom floor of a huge apartment complex. Lots of wifi spots... once I started flipping through the channels I found one that worked perfectly and that was the end of that.

 

I know this is probably going to sound like a silly step, but do you have a friend that would mind if you tried setting the router up at their place to remove environment out of the equation? I just find it very hard to believe you have 2 bum wifi devices in two different systems. (technically if you already tried to replace the adapter in the desktop). 

[Wetcloth3]

2 minutes ago, Bad5ector said:

Honestly, I have seen this before back in 802.11 B/G days, with a wrt54g router. I could have the laptop right next to the router and it would be near impossible to even connect and when it did, wouldn't actually connect to anything outside. For me it was the channel, as I was living in a townhouse at the bottom floor of a huge apartment complex. Lots of wifi spots... once I started flipping through the channels I found one that worked perfectly and that was the end of that.

 

I know this is probably going to sound like a silly step, but do you have a friend that would mind if you tried setting the router up at their place to remove environment out of the equation? I just find it very hard to believe you have 2 bum wifi devices in two different systems. (technically if you already tried to replace the adapter in the desktop). 

Yeah i think that might be the next step, im almost hoping the router is defective so i have something to work with. Dunno what to do if it is operative. I appreciate your time and suggestions anyway

[Falcon1986]

@Wetcloth3

 

Some things to consider:

1. Run a wireless survey using WiFi Analyzer on the desktop. Post the screenshots of the 'Analyze' (include 2.4GHz and 5GHz) and 'Networks' pages, while highlighting your SSID.
2. How far is the desktop from the VR600v? Are there any intervening floors/walls?
3. Do you have any other wireless routers or access points in the house? Is anyone/anything else using the network at the same time? E.g. wireless IoT devices, wireless cameras, etc.?
4. Can you please provide a network setup flow diagram with device make/model numbers? E.g. ISP/DSL --> modem --> wireless router --> desktop

[Wetcloth3]

15 hours ago, Falcon1986 said:

@Wetcloth3

 

Some things to consider:

1. Run a wireless survey using WiFi Analyzer on the desktop. Post the screenshots of the 'Analyze' (include 2.4GHz and 5GHz) and 'Networks' pages, while highlighting your SSID.
2. How far is the desktop from the VR600v? Are there any intervening floors/walls?
3. Do you have any other wireless routers or access points in the house? Is anyone/anything else using the network at the same time? E.g. wireless IoT devices, wireless cameras, etc.?
4. Can you please provide a network setup flow diagram with device make/model numbers? E.g. ISP/DSL --> modem --> wireless router --> desktop

1. From the Wifi Analyzer it seems to me as though there should be next to no interference but the screenshots are attached in case I interpreted wrong.

2. The desktop is approximately 5 metres away with one wall in between.

3. There are no other routers, but there is one connection point in the kitchen (I will try plugging it in there tonight - EDIT: it still had massive packet loss). If you meant boosters etc as access points then no there are none. I think there is 2 laptops, 1 TV, 1 desktop and 1 tablet connected to the network, however I am the only one who uses the internet regularly (interference is usually highest around 6pm-10pm if my parents are watching netflix).

4. My network flow diagram is pretty simple, just: ISP --> Modem router (TP-link VR600v AC1600) --> Desktop (custom) (network card is TP-link  Archer T6E AC1300).

my PC specs are:

- Windows 10 home

- Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-7600 CPU @ 3.50GHz 3.50GHz

- 16 GB RAM

- Nvidia GeForce GTX 1070 

 

It should also be noted that sometimes I am not able to even connect to the 5 GHz internet band. I talked about this with TP-Link and changing channel to 44 solved this temporarily, but It still took me 2 or 3 tries to connect to the 5 GHz band for WiFi Analyzer today. I assume this has something to do with the packet loss.

 

Thanks, Michael

 

[Wetcloth3]

Update:

- I have tried connecting my laptop to the modem router via ethernet, and for whatever reason it now still has significant packet loss >75%. Does anyone know if it is possible for packet loss at the first hop of a traceroute to occur because of a bad house/road connection? I really don't think there is any hardware/software to replace at this point.

[BlackManINC]

1 hour ago, Wetcloth3 said:

Update:

- I have tried connecting my laptop to the modem router via ethernet, and for whatever reason it now still has significant packet loss >75%. Does anyone know if it is possible for packet loss at the first hop of a traceroute to occur because of a bad house/road connection? I really don't think there is any hardware/software to replace at this point.

Your issue might very well be environmental. Are you sure there isn't anything set up in your house that would be causing interference? What type of ethernet cable have you tried? Is it Cat 5e, Cat6?

[Wetcloth3]

21 hours ago, BlackManINC said:

Your issue might very well be environmental. Are you sure there isn't anything set up in your house that would be causing interference? What type of ethernet cable have you tried? Is it Cat 5e, Cat6?

I mean the only thing between the modem router and my computer is 1 wall, a rack of coat hangers (idk if metal may have some effect), and some metal sliding doors. This seems odd to me though as even when the laptop is next to the router or plugged via ethernet it still has big issues. If interference may occur from anywhere in the house I do have a heating system which can connect to internet, and a smart TV but that's about all that comes to mind. A microwave on the other side of the house? Dunno. Also the ethernet cable I tried was a Cat 5e that came with the modem router.

[BlackManINC]

8 hours ago, Wetcloth3 said:

I mean the only thing between the modem router and my computer is 1 wall, a rack of coat hangers (idk if metal may have some effect), and some metal sliding doors. This seems odd to me though as even when the laptop is next to the router or plugged via ethernet it still has big issues. If interference may occur from anywhere in the house I do have a heating system which can connect to internet, and a smart TV but that's about all that comes to mind. A microwave on the other side of the house? Dunno. Also the ethernet cable I tried was a Cat 5e that came with the modem router.

Metal can interrupt the signal. Its one of the worst offenders actually. The metal sliding doors only adds more salt to the wound. I'm not sure if switching to the 5ghz band will work, assuming you haven't already. Maybe getting another wireless access point can solve it. Not just a wireless one either, but a wired one like the one linked below that you can stick right into your modem, otherwise its a waste of money. I would also change your ethernet connection to Cat 6/Cat 6A because Cat 5E has no actual protection from interference beyond it being twisted pairs. Its really obsolete for this reason. Make sure you use a Cat 6 cable for your access point as well. 

 

Link: Ubiquiti Unifi AC Pro

[Donut417]

12 hours ago, Wetcloth3 said:

A microwave on the other side of the house?

That can interfere on the 2.4 Ghz band. Microwaves use a hell of a lot more power than a WiFi router and defiantly can cause interference. However, Id imagine that you might only see that if your with in a certain proximity to the Microwave. 

12 hours ago, Wetcloth3 said:

This seems odd to me though as even when the laptop is next to the router or plugged via ethernet it still has big issues.

That is odd. Ethernet should be 100% good if all the equipment is good. Are your Ethernet cables near and power cables? Electrical cables cause EMI which can interferer with Ethernet cabling. However lower voltages like 110v that we use here in the US generally doesn't cause that kind of issue, though higher voltages can from what I have read.  Theoretically you should have no packet loss between the router and you on Ethernet. WiFi however is a funny animal at times. 

[Falcon1986]

On 9/26/2020 at 1:20 AM, Wetcloth3 said:

Please assign your 2.4GHz broadcast to channel 1. The current set-up is overlapping with a broadcast on 6 and 11.

 

Given the issue also being seen with Ethernet, I too don't think it's a wireless interference problem.

 

Do you have any special security features running on then router that might be consuming a lot of CPU resources? E.g. IDS, etc?

 

Do you have access to another router that you can substitute temporarily to see if the problem persists?

[Wetcloth3]

10 hours ago, BlackManINC said:

Metal can interrupt the signal. Its one of the worst offenders actually. The metal sliding doors only adds more salt to the wound. I'm not sure if switching to the 5ghz band will work, assuming you haven't already. Maybe getting another wireless access point can solve it. Not just a wireless one either, but a wired one like the one linked below that you can stick right into your modem, otherwise its a waste of money. I would also change your ethernet connection to Cat 6/Cat 6A because Cat 5E has no actual protection from interference beyond it being twisted pairs. Its really obsolete for this reason. Make sure you use a Cat 6 cable for your access point as well. 

 

Link: Ubiquiti Unifi AC Pro

Wow, I had no idea that cat 5E may have interference from metal etc as well. I guess the smart thing to do now is get a cat 6 cable to test the connection, and if its solved then ill go the access point route. thanks for the suggestion.

[Wetcloth3]

6 hours ago, Donut417 said:

That can interfere on the 2.4 Ghz band. Microwaves use a hell of a lot more power than a WiFi router and defiantly can cause interference. However, Id imagine that you might only see that if your with in a certain proximity to the Microwave. 

That is odd. Ethernet should be 100% good if all the equipment is good. Are your Ethernet cables near and power cables? Electrical cables cause EMI which can interferer with Ethernet cabling. However lower voltages like 110v that we use here in the US generally doesn't cause that kind of issue, though higher voltages can from what I have read.  Theoretically you should have no packet loss between the router and you on Ethernet. WiFi however is a funny animal at times. 

Yeah thats fair, just odd cause the microwave is reasonably far away. And on the ethernet note it may be to do with the fact the cable was 5E as BlackManINC suggested. will have to test and see. On the last point, I don't think the ethernet cable was particularly close to power cables, but who knows what might be interfering at this point (or if it is even interference).

[Wetcloth3]

5 hours ago, Falcon1986 said:

Please assign your 2.4GHz broadcast to channel 1. The current set-up is overlapping with a broadcast on 6 and 11.

 

Given the issue also being seen with Ethernet, I too don't think it's a wireless interference problem.

 

Do you have any special security features running on then router that might be consuming a lot of CPU resources? E.g. IDS, etc?

 

Do you have access to another router that you can substitute temporarily to see if the problem persists?

Nah I don't have anything special running, just using the modem router from the box with only changes to channel/bandwidth etc. I did try 2 other modem routers just to eliminate any issues with it, and sure enough they all had the same packet loss. 

[BlackManINC]

2 minutes ago, Wetcloth3 said:

Nah I don't have anything special running, just using the modem router from the box with only changes to channel/bandwidth etc. I did try 2 other modem routers just to eliminate any issues with it, and sure enough they all had the same packet loss. 

So you did try changing the channel from eight to channel one? It didn't work?

[Wetcloth3]

Just now, BlackManINC said:

So you did try changing the channel from eight to channel one? It didn't work?

yeah, still packet loss >80%

[BlackManINC]

10 minutes ago, Wetcloth3 said:

yeah, still packet loss >80%

Yeah, I don't know what else to tell you beyond what I already said at this point. You can try making some tweaks in your NIC adapter advanced settings to increase performance, but I'm not sure if it'd make that much of a difference. You can try changing things like increasing the power level for wifi for instance, and changing other things for ethernet. The link below will kind of help get you started on all that. 

 

Link: https://www.digit.in/features/tech/tweak-network-adapter-properties-networking-ethernet-wifi-vpn-45243.html

 

[Donut417]

4 hours ago, Wetcloth3 said:

And on the ethernet note it may be to do with the fact the cable was 5E as BlackManINC suggested.

No he meant that WiFi cant pass thru metal or has a difficult time doing so. Dense materials like metals, brick and concrete block WiFi signals. Cat5e is acutely safe to use in most instances. Cat 6 does offer better quality cabling but I have never had issues with Cat5e. The biggest thing about Cat6 is under short distances you can get up to 10 Gbps.