Troubleshooting freezing of 19-year-old PC

[Patrick Pelletier]

My parents have an AMD-based system from the year 2000 they still like to use, even though it is obviously obsolete.  (They use it offline, so it shouldn't be a big deal that Windows XP doesn't get security updates.)

 

They use it 1-2 hours a day, and it has worked fine for the past 19 years, up until a couple months ago.  Now, it runs for about 5-10 minutes when turned on, and then it freezes.  (No error message, no BSOD, just freezes.)

 

My first thought was that it might be a cooling issue, but the fan on the CPU seems to be spinning fine, and there is not an excessive buildup of dust.  (The PC doesn't seem to have any case fans, so I believe the only fans are on the CPU and in the PSU.)

 

Presumably the best way to troubleshoot would be to swap out various parts and see what fixes the problem, but I don't have a lot of PC parts lying around, especially of this vintage.

 

So, my question is this: statistically speaking, what is the component most likely to cause this sort of failure?  Should I try getting a replacement Athlon CPU off of eBay?  (In case it has died of electromigration.)  Or ditto for the RAM?  Or would it be more likely to be the power supply?  (The PSU obviously still works to some extent, but maybe the capacitors are getting old, and it's producing dirtier power that the CPU doesn't like?)

 

I realize this is not enough information to diagnose the problem, but I'm just trying to find out what is the most likely direction to look in.  Also, if it helps, this PC is from a system builder called "Pogo".  Thanks for any advice you can provide!

[DoctorNick]

Enter BIOS, check temperature of CPU. If very hot, then it's likely because the thermal paste disintegrated after 19 years of use. Remove CPU heatsink, clean and re-paste  Wouldn't post most likely if a component died. If ram died, you would most likely get BSOD. 

[Radium_Angel]

37 minutes ago, Patrick Pelletier said:

Thanks for any advice you can provide!

I'd start by looking at bad caps by the CPU or RAM. On a nearly 20 year old system, I'd suspect cap failure first.

[Animal901]

Probably the video card is acting up. 

[Patrick Pelletier]

5 hours ago, DoctorNick said:

Enter BIOS, check temperature of CPU. If very hot, then it's likely because the thermal paste disintegrated after 19 years of use. Remove CPU heatsink, clean and re-paste  Wouldn't post most likely if a component died. If ram died, you would most likely get BSOD. 

I wasn't able to determine the temperature of the CPU, using either the BIOS or the HWMonitor utility from cpuid.com.  However, this explanation sounds very reasonable to me, so I think I'll try replacing the thermal compound and see what happens.

 

I did not see any capacitors that looked bad in my visual inspection of the motherboard.  I don't have any particular reason to suspect the video card, so that will probably be further down my list of things to try.

 

Thanks for all of the suggestions!

[Animal901]

1 hour ago, Patrick Pelletier said:

I wasn't able to determine the temperature of the CPU, using either the BIOS or the HWMonitor utility from cpuid.com.  However, this explanation sounds very reasonable to me, so I think I'll try replacing the thermal compound and see what happens.

 

I did not see any capacitors that looked bad in my visual inspection of the motherboard.  I don't have any particular reason to suspect the video card, so that will probably be further down my list of things to try.

 

Thanks for all of the suggestions!

I had to retire my old athlon xp last year cause the video Cards kept dying and it was expensive to replace something that performs that poorly today. Newer computers even run adobe audition 1.5 better than back then.... good luck.

[Mark Kaine]

Why is it using 100% CPU? Would be my first question - is that normal? 

 

Otherwise,  statistically speaking,  it's like 99% the PSU that fails in pre-builts and the like,  so if I were you,  I'd try that. 

 

Also running for a short while then crashing is a typical syndrome. 

 

It could also be the motherboard though, thinking about it,  in which case it's probably not salvageable.  

 

 

 

[DoctorNick]

10 hours ago, Animal901 said:

I had to retire my old athlon xp last year cause the video Cards kept dying and it was expensive to replace something that performs that poorly today. Newer computers even run adobe audition 1.5 better than back then.... good luck.

 

12 hours ago, Patrick Pelletier said:

 

You could try IBT test to see if it survives the burning https://www.majorgeeks.com/files/details/intelburntest.html

And that cpu fan RPM.. its over 7k! (and yes forum user I know its a small fan)

 

[Animal901]

19 hours ago, Patrick Pelletier said:

I wasn't able to determine the temperature of the CPU, using either the BIOS or the HWMonitor utility from cpuid.com.  However, this explanation sounds very reasonable to me, so I think I'll try replacing the thermal compound and see what happens.

 

I did not see any capacitors that looked bad in my visual inspection of the motherboard.  I don't have any particular reason to suspect the video card, so that will probably be further down my list of things to try.

 

Thanks for all of the suggestions!

The fan rpm is too high to keep that temp. 

[Patrick Pelletier]

I want to start with reapplying the thermal compound, since that seems like a likely issue, and it is inexpensive.

 

I was able to remove the CPU from the motherboard without much trouble, but I can't figure out how to remove the cooler from the CPU.  There are a couple of screws deep down in the gaps of the heatsink, but loosening those didn't seem to do anything.  There are some little clips that look like maybe they're supposed to be pressed, but they are positioned so they can't be pressed with fingers, and pressing them with a screwdriver didn't seem to do anything.

 

Any ideas?  Thanks!

[Patrick Pelletier]

I found a couple of links about this:

 

https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/remove-athlon-heatsink.401664/

https://www.hornfans.com/threads/amd-k7600-heatsink-removal.3732/

 

So it sounds like the old thermal compound is gluing the heatsink to the processor.  The second article recommends either putting the processor in the freezer, or using a hairdryer to soften the thermal compound.  Which of those two ideas (heat or cold) is more likely to work, and which is less likely to damage the processor?

 

Thanks!

[Animal901]

54 minutes ago, Patrick Pelletier said:

I found a couple of links about this:

 

https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/remove-athlon-heatsink.401664/

https://www.hornfans.com/threads/amd-k7600-heatsink-removal.3732/

 

So it sounds like the old thermal compound is gluing the heatsink to the processor.  The second article recommends either putting the processor in the freezer, or using a hairdryer to soften the thermal compound.  Which of those two ideas (heat or cold) is more likely to work, and which is less likely to damage the processor?

 

Thanks!

Try twisting it back and forth slowly. Carefully. 

[Patrick Pelletier]

I was finally able to get the heatsink off!  The trick was to slip a screwdriver into the notch on the clip, and pull outward, rather than push inward like I was trying before.

 

Surprisingly, there didn't really seem to be any old thermal compound on it.  Does it just evaporate over time?  The attached photo shows what it looked like immediately after I took it off.  After taking the picture, I wiped with IPA, but there wasn't really anything to wipe off.

 

Now I need to apply new compound.  I bought some Arctic MX-4.  I've seen the LTT videos for applying thermal compound to modern processors; the consensus seems to be to apply a pea's worth of compound to the middle.  But this old CPU is so large and rectangular; should I apply three peas?  (One for each of the three regions of the heatsink.)

 

I'm a little worried about the holes in the CPU's heat spreader; I assume I want to avoid getting compound in the holes.  (Although MX-4 is non-conductive, so maybe it's not a huge problem?)  Also, there is a little depression in each of the side regions; should I get thermal compound in the depressions, or avoid it?

[DoctorNick]

[Mark Kaine]

Oh, interesting find OP!

 

Well idk nearly enough about old CPUs but I think that's the issue likely. 

 

Also!   Don't use thermal paste!  Use a thermal pad! 

 

That way there won't be a mess and it should be good enough to cool the CPU again. 

 

And use a non conductive thermal pad of course - most of them are conductive I think so look out for that. 

[Patrick Pelletier]

I already put the CPU back together using the Arctic MX-4 earlier today.  I put it back in the computer and it seems to work great!  No freezing so far.

 

Thanks to everyone who offered suggestions!

[Patrick Pelletier]

For anyone who's curious, this CPU form factor was known as "Slot A".

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slot_A