On board audio vs dedicated

[BadTopology]

Hello all, I've been looking at a new build but have been struggling over M-atx or mini itx because I'm not sure whether I need the space for a soundcard. Right now all I'm using is an asus xonar DS and at times I think it's great and others I think, hmm, it could be better i.e clearer when louder. I'm only using this card for some cheap 2.1 speakers for music and gaming primarily.

 

Anyway, my question is how does my xonar DS compare to onboard sound these days? I'm looking to get something like an Asus z87m plus (or similar) which has Realtek ALC887. How do these compare?

 

Are there any DACs which can be used for both headphones and speakers? Or an external soundcard?

 

Thanks for reading 

[_ASSASSIN_]

LOL get rid of that card, I had it and it's kind of trash, try your onboard it should be much better, just download the realtek drivers to give 24 bit with the insane hz range and you should be set with onboard

[Chriz6097]

LOL get rid of that card, I had it and it's kind of trash, try your onboard it should be much better, just download the realtek drivers to give 24 bit with the insane hz range and you should be set with onboard

I've found the as long as the integrated audio doesn't have horrible interference (my motherboard) from other components then there is really no reason to get a dedicated audio solution.

[_ASSASSIN_]

I've found the as long as the integrated audio doesn't have horrible interference (my motherboard) from other components then there is really no reason to get a dedicated audio solution.

...

there still is, but there is no point in getting soundcards until you go up to the STX level

and even then they have their own issues such as not have proper sheilding, no impdence matching,drivers are bad, and an overall overpriced product for the performance they offer. 

It just makes more sense to get something proper that is external.

Of course, this all won't matter until you get a decent pair of cans.

[Chriz6097]

...

there still is, but there is no point in getting soundcards until you go up to the STX level

and even then they have their own issues such as not have proper sheilding, no impdence matching,drivers are bad, and an overall overpriced product for the performance they offer. 

It just makes more sense to get something proper that is external.

Of course, this all won't matter until you get a decent pair of cans.

Agreed, Until you pass the $200 mark for headphones the audio you get from onboard will most likely do in most cases. Of course there are the cheaper motherboards that have shit audio.

[_ASSASSIN_]

Agreed, Until you pass the $200 mark for headphones the audio you get from onboard will most likely do in most cases. Of course there are the cheaper motherboards that have shit audio.

not nesicarly, don't place a price on the headphones as I have $300 worth of headphones I got for only $150, anyways you need to be at a relatively mid to high end audio to really consider an external amp

[BadTopology]

I just downloaded the newest drivers for realtek 892 (on my current m4a89gtd pro/usb 3) and I'm struggling to tell any difference between that and my Xonar DS although I had to physically turn the bass up on the subwoofer. Maybe that means I can go mini-itx   however, like I mentioned earlier... my new mobo/build would have alc887. Does a lower number = lower performance?

[h264]

I just downloaded the newest drivers for realtek 892 (on my current m4a89gtd pro/usb 3) and I'm struggling to tell any difference between that and my Xonar DS although I had to physically turn the bass up on the subwoofer. Maybe that means I can go mini-itx however, like I mentioned earlier... my new mobo/build would have alc887. Does a lower number = lower performance?

They've been audibly transparent since the 800 series.

[mr moose]

They've been audibly transparent since the 800 series.

I reckon they are a bit touch and go until you get to the 892, I have the 887 and can hear the noise floor of the output stage if I am wearing decent enough headphones. but on headsets or dime store headphones not a chance.

[mr moose]

I just downloaded the newest drivers for realtek 892 (on my current m4a89gtd pro/usb 3) and I'm struggling to tell any difference between that and my Xonar DS although I had to physically turn the bass up on the subwoofer. Maybe that means I can go mini-itx   however, like I mentioned earlier... my new mobo/build would have alc887. Does a lower number = lower performance?

what headphones are you using?  I use the HD280, the 7506, senns earbuds (god knows what model they are I keep forgetting) and some misc stuff on the 887 all the time and it's fine for most part. 

[BadTopology]

I'm not using headphones, only a cheap (£20-30) creative 2.1 system but I'm considering buying a FiiO E10 in the future and getting headphones along the lines of the akg 550's so mid range-ish I suppose. Would onboard sound limit the quality I get from both of these or is the dac completely separate?

[totjup5]

...

there still is, but there is no point in getting soundcards until you go up to the STX level

and even then they have their own issues such as not have proper sheilding, no impdence matching,drivers are bad, and an overall overpriced product for the performance they offer.

It just makes more sense to get something proper that is external.

Of course, this all won't matter until you get a decent pair of cans.

I disagree, the xonar dgx is still a great affordable way to get an output that has a headphone amp. also, the difference in quality is small, but still better than onboard nonetheless.

[EmoRarity]

Those headphones wont need an amp, as they are easy to drive. Onboard will do.

[TB-303]

Don't bother upgrading your sound card unless you plan on upgrading your headphones/speakers. I don't think there will be much noticeable improvement using a good sound card with crappy speakers.

[EmoRarity]

Don't bother upgrading your sound card unless you plan on upgrading your headphones/speakers. I don't think there will be much noticeable improvement using a good sound card with crappy speakers.

Technically there will be no difference from any given solution. As the speakers have their own amplifier.

[BadTopology]

909303

Posted Today, 05:02 PM

Don't bother upgrading your sound card unless you plan on upgrading your headphones/speakers. I don't think there will be much noticeable improvement using a good sound card with crappy speakers.

 

The idea is not to upgrade my speakers, but get at least the same performance just from onboard (compared to my current onboard or xonar ds) which I can then continue using my budget speakers with or switch to using a dac and decent headphones.

[EmoRarity]

The idea is not to upgrade my speakers, but get at least the same performance just from onboard (compared to my current onboard or xonar ds) which I can then continue using my budget speakers with or switch to using a dac and decent headphones.

Well even then onboard does just fine for most of the headphones on the market, even the super expensive ones. And speakers don't really care. 

So just don't worry about the soundcard or onboard. 

[mr moose]

I'm not using headphones, only a cheap (£20-30) creative 2.1 system but I'm considering buying a FiiO E10 in the future and getting headphones along the lines of the akg 550's so mid range-ish I suppose. Would onboard sound limit the quality I get from both of these or is the dac completely separate?

 

I would do the upgrade, I would not worry about the sound at all, even if you decide to get better headphones later on down the track the ones you mentioned and ones even better than those will would not necessarily benefit from a dac or sound card.  And if something should go wrong at any stage you could then consider the e10 at that point.  This way you will not be spending money on gear you possibly will never need, get to do the upgrade and won't notice a drop in audio quality.

[BadTopology]

I would do the upgrade, I would not worry about the sound at all, even if you decide to get better headphones later on down the track the ones you mentioned and ones even better than those will would not necessarily benefit from a dac or sound card.  And if something should go wrong at any stage you could then consider the e10 at that point.  This way you will not be spending money on gear you possibly will never need, get to do the upgrade and won't notice a drop in audio quality.

This is very helpful, thank you. I also looked at the audio faq in your sig, again, very helpful. I won't worry about the sound then! Although I am curious how ALC887 compares to 892. I did look up a comparison, and they seem almost identical so hopefully it should be fine for me 

[mr moose]

This is very helpful, thank you. I also looked at the audio faq in your sig, again, very helpful. I won't worry about the sound then! Although I am curious how ALC887 compares to 892. I did look up a comparison, and they seem almost identical so hopefully it should be fine for me 

It will be fine, there is like bees dick between the two,  I have the 887 and no complaints.

 

99% of the time  when people experience issues with on board audio it is not due to the chip but usually due to a combination of noise from things like the GPU/HDD, a freak manufacturing defect or dodgy PSU/install.  That is why we always say give your onboard a chance before spending money on an alternative solution.

[Guest]

...

there still is, but there is no point in getting soundcards until you go up to the STX level

and even then they have their own issues such as not have proper sheilding, no impdence matching,drivers are bad, and an overall overpriced product for the performance they offer. 

It just makes more sense to get something proper that is external.

Of course, this all won't matter until you get a decent pair of cans.

I'm sorry, who told you that? There are quite a number of reasons to go with even the most basic sound card.

[_ASSASSIN_]

I'm sorry, who told you that? There are quite a number of reasons to go with even the most basic sound card.

then list me the reasons, because my personal experience I had a xonar DG, which is just the xonar DS without the digital out, and I had a better experience with onbaord.

[Guest]

then list me the reasons, because my personal experience I had a xonar DG, which is just the xonar DS without the digital out, and I had a better experience with onbaord.

Increased output levels

Better IO

Better sound quality over onboard

[EmoRarity]

Increased output levels

Better IO

Better sound quality over onboard

Not to sink your ship, there unless there is something physically or electrically wrong with your onboard, The onboard solution on most any motherboard from the past 5 years will be perform the same if not better for nearly every headphone on the market. 

[mr moose]

dedicated has it's place if you can only afford $30 need it to be inside the case, specifically want dolby headphone surround (as opposed to razor) or dolby encoding for optical out. I believe the mic in's are reportedly slightly better. The SQ improvements are highly debatable though.  There are many factors beyond the onboard or sound card that determine the end result.