gardening

You're very confused about how a PC work, the real power hungry beast is the CPU, esp. a hi end 13700/13900 which can go up to 300W+
Then the board mostly only cleans and distribute power, eating a little and getting hot by electrical resistance
Judging boards and manufacturers on the fact that board X gets hotter than board Y in some situation is plain stupid, a manufacturers can do some very good board on a chipset then way worse one on another, or even on a model vs another on same chipset
 
Rather state what you want to achieve, and if it's power efficiency drop Intel 13th gen first ! And don't tell us you want a 4090 😛
 

Just saying, you're way overemphasizing the importance of VRM efficiency here. VRM components are designed to be run at 105C at all time for years of full load, so running it at under 80C (like all high end Z790 boards will run) means that the VRM will outlast everything else on the board. If you actually care about power consumption of the VRMs, that's completely independent of the VRM temperature because a higher power consumption VRM with a better heatsink will run cooler than a more efficient VRM with a worse heatsink. Generally Gigabyte and EVGA have been putting the most effective VRM heatsinks on their high end boards, hence why they are running cooler (though the other manufacturers have been putting heatsinks with more thermal mass, so they'll get to max temp a lot slower, so it'll run cooler in more bursty workloads), but if you compare the actual calculated efficiency between something like a Z790 Carbon and a Z790 Master the difference is 1W either way. Basically it's no difference at all. Heck, the difference between a high end board like the Z790 Carbon and a slightly lower end board like the Z790 Elite is gonna be in the neighborhood of 3-5W under full load (I'm talking Prime95 Small FFTs with a 5.7/4.6GHz OC on a 13900K pulling over 450W), still no difference, and at idle it would just come down to which board has the most aggressive phase shedding setup which is near impossible to test and will result in differences of less than 1W of power.
 
The real difference is just gonna be with how aggressive they are with the voltage curve at stock, but if you're this concerned with power draw, you'll be undervolting anyway so this figure means next to nothing as well. 

I'm confused about your needs. In general, the motherboard power consumption and heat generation are dwarfed by the CPU and GPU. In your case with the 13900k or 13700k, your conditions won't be any different. I am also confused about why you want to avoid ASUS or Gigabyte... easily cutting your options in half, if not more. I understand why you want components with lower power draw, but you might want to consider different gear completely. You don't want a lower power drawing motherboard with a 13900k. What do you need from such a CPU anyway?
 
If you want to avoid heat generation and whatnot, then get a board that does very little. In fact, a B series board might be better suited for your needs than a Z series. Are the boards you are considering reaching 55 to 70+ C at IDLE??? That seems difficult to accept. Are you sure an i5 isn't enough for your general needs?
 
I have a Z690 mini ITX from ASUS. My motherboard temps as reported from HWinfo64 is 34C at idle and core temperatures are around 28 C on a 12700k. I am using a 240mm AIO and Noctua fans. GPU is sitting around 28 C as well. Ambient temp is 20 C. Power consumption from the CPU is around 30 watts, and the GPU is 12 watts (3070ti).
 
Not sure if my post helps you at all, but I've given you a couple more data points to consider. The 13 series runs hotter than the 12 series from my understanding. You might be better off with the 12 series. I would never game on my PC on a hot day... that's just me... but I would have no issues leaving this beast running all day for light tasks.

I have 3 intakes and 2 exhausts so I should be fine there.
Im just swapping the cpu, mobo, and ram everything else stays except my gpu which I will also be upgrading.
I dont really mind that AIOs are more expensive, its just that they have more points of failure and stuff like that.

The bright, and raised headlights are of no help to the holdouts of smaller cars. I’m unsure what the appeal of SUVs are. They handle like poo. 
 
Tbf, the Lightning connector was dramatically superior to MicroUSB, and that 40-pin cable Apple was using before. Not going to fault Apple for adopting it in the first place, though criticism may be fairly directed at holding onto it for too long. 

Probably been mentioned already, but for me it's a lot of the stuff in cars these days.
 
For 1 I'm very much against moving all the controls to touchscreens or other touch input, I think this is flatout dangerous. Obviously a bunch of controls are fine, we are talking about things you set maybe once, or things that you really set before driving, for example mirror placements, car seat, navigation etc that's fine. But when we are talking about wipers, lights, climate control, music etc that should all be done through physical buttons and knobs.
 
On top of that I'm not a fan of systems these days, I've already started to notice that when I bought a 2009 BMW E93, which has an early infotainment system (the old iDrive), which effectively means that Bluetooth music isn't supported, and maps were supported up to 2018 (this system dates back to like 2004?), so I switched to an Android Headunit, but this brings some complications.
Now this only gets worse on newer cars, when more and more gets integrated in the system, and while they are fine when they are being supported, down the line you will be shit out of luck. 

We replace our phones fairly quickly, most people don't last longer than a few years, and once we pass 5 years it's quite old. Now sure you can keep using it and that's fine, but you can also replace it for like 200.
 
With cars they just last way longer, my car is 13 years old, this can easily double, yet it hasn't been supported for nearly 5 years. Now with an aux cable and a phone with a 3.5mm jack, you could do alright with 5 year old maps, but in 5 years this would just be trash. My phone doesn't have a jack (Fold 3), and with how quickly things are build here, there are quite a lot of places that I cannot find in the navigation.
 
If I compared that to my 2 previous cars (BMW E46 - 2000 and Peugeot 307cc - 2006), the difference is pretty massive, because the E46 basically had nothing, and the Peugeot had a seperate display for it, so I installed Android headunits in both, and they were super easy and clean installs, and didn't interfere with anything.
 
The worst part of it all, is that people buying these cars don't give a fuck. If you are the type of person that buys a brand new car, why would you care if the maps still get updated 10 years later? You very likely won't be owning it anymore anyway.
 
Systems like Android Auto does solve this somewhat, but not all cars support that, especially the older ones that predate that software.
 
Oh and it also leaves the question as to functionality, with more and more cars having all these extra screens, huds etc, the question remains if those will work with other inputs.

Not directly tech-related, but I hate the fact that everyone and their moms are ditching sedans and hatchbacks for SUVs and crossovers. Those cars are heavier, less aerodynamic, and even more dangerous to pedestrians. People bought them to so they could feel secure, driving above most of the traffic, but the net result was a tall car arms race with everyone ultimately ending up at the same height again. And don't even get me started on the topic of 3-ton electric SUVs with 500+hp being marketed as "green".
 
Not to mention they all pretty much look the same now, to an even greater extent than previous generations of cars.
 

In a workplace that may otherwise frown on earphones, wireless earbuds are a very low profile solution, and easily allow the use of only one with no unnecessary wires or bulk. They're also fast to use. If I want to listen to a podcast, it takes but a few seconds to slip an earpiece in.
 
However, battery replacements are an issue, as well as keeping them in place. My own ears get oily very rapidly, so friction-fit buds are not suitable for me for active wear (such as exercising, or my work). As a result, sound quality is generally poor for me (not a the end of the world with podcasts, but music wasn't enjoyable). At my new job, I've had to resort to 3M surgical tape to keep the earpiece in reliably, as I can't adjust the earbud after putting on all my PPE (full-body suit with hood and respirator). Not fast, nor easy tbh, but probably a wash vs older bluetooth earbuds for single-ear use. Getting earbuds with a hook would probably be the sensible solution here, though it looks like there may be replacement airpod tips that have hooks as well.
 
If I'm listening to music, I much prefer the Sennheiser Momentum On-Ears I bought some 8 years ago.

companies going public
investors
expectation that a company is supposed to do record profit YoY in perpetuaty
Glass sandwich
Glue as a premium material
IoT
"don't ask questions, coonsume product then get excited for next product"
worshipping companies
 

That doesn't solve the problem, it just creates another one when the drives need heatsinks and impede the neighboring slot anyway. This is just asking to use the most available real estate that already exists, and by which I mean you'd take the back cover off the computer to access it without having to remove the MB at all. That requires a standard "M.2" cutout location on the MB mount.
 
Like remember back during the ISA/PCI/VL-BUS transition? Prior to PCI, you needed:
- Super I/O (serial and parallel port) card
- Video card
- IDE controller card (sometimes integrated with Super I/O on VLB cards)
- Sound card
- Network card
The only "onboard" thing PC/XT/AT/386 systems did was the Keyboard.
And all 8 ISA slots were usable, and I indeed was able to max out a 386 with a SCSI card, and an expanded memory card at the time.
 
Now all of those are available on the motherboard by default.
 
Here's how I would re-design the "ATX" standard, (simple way):
 
Move the CPU-connected "GPU" lanes to the bottom-most slot of the MB, so it doesn't matter how chonky the GPU is. That's the easiest solution. When that's out of the way, the next slot above the GPU should be an x16 slot with either:
2 M.2 slots + 2 TB ports
or
4 M.2 slots.
 
And this card comes with the MB (to match the PCI3/4/5 the MB uses,) while only having a single M2 on the MB that sits next to the RAM.
 
Chassis manufacturers then only need to have "extra slot openings", or users can use the mATX version of the MB to make it fit in current generation chassis at the expense of 3 pcie slots.
 
That leaves the user with the option to still have 5 full size expansion cards. Ideally those would all be PCIe x8 or x4, and the MB can migrate the lanes to the active card at will for cards that aren't usually maxed out (Eg a 4K capture card would need 4 lanes) but that gets into "how many lanes does power user actually use?" question.
 
Intel and AMD believe that you'll only ever have at most one GPU and one SSD, so they only connect 20 lanes to the CPU (24 for AMD), and everything else shares the bandwidth of the chipset with the USB type-A ports, Network and Sound i/o. 
 

-touchscreen controls on commercial equipment 
-Soft power switches
-power bricks on monitors
 
I'm counting the last 20 years as recent.
 
 
 
 
 

Smartphones with 6 years or less of updates.  We have phones with over one gigabyte of ram, NOBODY, needs a new phone, ever.  Just replacement battery and extra screens.
 
I hope both Linux phones get software worked out, and also a way to upgrade the cellular modem / antenna of cellular devices in a standardized way for everyone with minimal effort required to replace the equipment.
 
To do this, consumers will have to stop treating technology as a status symbol.  On this point I remember in middle school that someone wanted the new LG Chocolate, and I was just thinking, what in the flying fuck does that thing do that ANY other similar device won't?  I bet they didn't have any care, it was all in the name.  Chocolate, just a way to show off how "cool" you are because.. you have a flip phone called chocolate.  O.K. so that's where we still are.
 
Will this ever stop?  Are we going to start caring how terribly WASTEFUL this is, to release six different models of basically the same equipment, yearly for the last 25+ years?  Will we ever care about the people who dig for the cobalt in our batteries or whatever else?  If we all weren't spoiled with tools that connect us to information in a few blinks of the eye or faster, could we start to care about the impact of our technology purchases.
 
No.
 
Because that's inconvenient and annoying to hear so would you please shut the hell up and quit whining?
 
I feel like that's our response as a society.  We just simply DO NOT CARE.
 
Well this text won't do anything, so we must MUST devise a solution to this madness that has overtaken industrialized society.
 
How can we, the consumers, start learning the skills needed to become the producers.
 
Looks like we have excellent ideas in this thread, but they'll never happen.
 
Unless we make it ourselves.  So it seems that it would benefit not only us, but the entire Planet Earth, if we could "crack the code" of how to develop our own circuit boards, metal frames and custom upgradable / user-replacable components, and then after we learn and do all that, somehow sell it by the hundreds of thousands and somehow sustain a business with only some spare replacement part sales every few years.  Hmm.
 
If I could design anything it would be a very basic cellphone without a camera, with a way to upgrade the cellular modem chip parts and antenna to be able to work on any cellular network, forever.  But I can see why that might not make as much money as forcing people to upgrade their horribly insecure android device every four years, and any apple device every six years.  I am thankful for Lineage OS even though my bootloader is locked (which I don't understand how that continues to benefit my software security--I bet that could be settled in court quite easily) but my phone will still turn into a brick once 4g is phased out and to me, that's just unacceptable.  Why can I not change the cellular component as easily as swapping a sim card?  Wow, that'll be the day!

1. Rainbow puke RGB. It's tasteless and gaudy. 
2. Complaining about nVidia adding more product choices at the top of their stack. Other people having more options doesn't hurt you. You can still play meme-craft at 300FPS on your 60Hz 10 year old LCD.
3. Concerns about "bottlenecking" and using the term improperly. Properly used it means "this part is generally holding you back by a big amount" and not "if you spent 2x as much here you'd get a 2% performance uplift." Don't overspend on RAM or CPU when you're mainly held back by your video card. 
4. Too much m.2 not enough PCIe slots. If I need an m.2 device, I can buy a $10 add in card. heck I can use PCIe bifurcation if needed. I want an x4 or x8 slot ABOVE the GPU slot. I'd LOVE to toss in a 10Gbe + m.2 combo card there and to NOT block my video card's fan.

The problem with that is that installing M.2 drives would be an absolute nightmare. It would be a decent solution, but just using expansion cards would be the better option IMO. 

What I want is for the M2 drives to be put on the BACK side of the motherboard and give me back my 7 PCIe slots.
 
Yes I know current stupid-tier GPU's can now take up to 4 slots (which they should never have been permitted to exceed 2 slots of width), but that could be rectified by chassis having a dedicated space for the GPU like they do presently with PSU's and put the GPU on riser card/cable. Hell, use the North side of the MB to do this connection and move the motherboard to the "Center" of the chassis. 
 

SaaS, or Software as a Service. 
 
Professional apps moving to SaaS was bad enough. Now we have operating systems moving that direction. A lot of devices nowadays you can't even use unless you connect to the internet and make an online account with a big tech company while blindly agreeing to a very violating EULA. If MS Windows wasn't famous for backwards compatability, I believe it would be worse for your freedom and privacy than Apple products. 
 
On devices that techically are sorta free, but really aren't; You can use Android by ripping all the Google Play crap out of it. But it gimps so much expected functionality. If you have a smartphone, you're expected to be able to download mainstream apps, which requires the Google Play Store, which requires a Google account accociated with your phone, which allows you to be fingerprinted and tracked physically and software-usage-wise by Google and whoever they want to sell the data to. 
 
Even if the freedom and privacy violations were somehow acceptable, a solid internet connection is only a given for some people, the people that big tech caters to. A lot of devices and software straight up won't work without an internet connection. Either just to set up the device, or to only work while there's an active internet connection. A television should not require internet and an account to be able to watch broadcast content with an antenna. 
 
The main issue is consumers being ignorant to start with, then getting trapped into this crap from the lack of options for the free market to do it's magic. Most humans go for the cheapest and most convenient options. And if you go for the more freedom respecting options, ie the options that cost more and/or are more effort, you're ridiculed for it. Sometimes you're even locked out of doing what you love, like a hobby or job. Follow the advice of mommy corporation, even against common sense, or else you're a bad boy. 

I hear this statement a lot from younger people (things don't work anymore), but as counter argument I'd like to throw them the keys to a late 80s/early 90s car in the dead of winter.

The urge to remove connectors and seal in batteries for the sake of thinness in all portable electronics products.  I want an externally replaceable battery, a displayport or hdmi connector, 3.5 mm jacks, RJ45 jacks, etc. Heck, I'd love to have the option to have a serial port again on a laptop again! But allas, pretty much only Panasonic and Lenovo still cater to us technical folks, and even the latter has started dumping external batteries and ports by now 😞 

My personal favourite: "I am scared of breaking it" when it's literally just responding to an email.

That completely stupid people are allowed to use a computer too.
Then they have to ask me the most stupid questions they where able to learn themselves with just a tiny bit of paying attention.
 
Also using a computer inept and NOT taking a computer course, you suffer the consequences you deserve it.
Learn what you use, or dont use it. You have a brain, new info is stored easy, THATS WHAT ITS FOR!!!!! FFS.

See, SaaS is a completely valid mechanic in principle. But to make it work for the consumer, the consumer has to see value beyond "I have no other choice".
 
I very much hope that Adobe is not allowed to aquire any competitors by regulators, so that some competition can bring back choice and force Adobe to provide value.

Software as a Service. FU Adobe for kicking that off in the consumer-space.

Worked for company (custom made thingies for big events like open air, concert, big conference centers...):
 
made as a part of a bigger system a ~ 1.5 to 2 inch thick cable with 40 fully shielded / seperated channels, 100m long (~ 300 feet) on a drum / reel
 
It was used for an event (concert) in a middle ages build hall, with correspondingly old parquett, all under governmental architectural conservation protection.
 
We have a law that says you have to fixate such a kind of cable, if it is arranged through the visitors area (auditorium), so no one will trap over it. Usually done with Gaffa tape (duct tape) or similar.
 
 
Guess what 3 University students did, as they couldn't find a tape? (solution is soon coming)
 
 
Complain = channels not working, massive internal contacts / short circuits.
 
I started to investigate, pulled the cable a little bit.... what.... there is a fat nail sticking through it?
 
It gets even better:
 
they hammered ~ 95 hand forged (old) nails each ~ meter (each 3 feet) through the cable into the 'protected' parquett.
Hand forged as in at least 5 times as thick as usual for that long / strong kind of nails. 
Till the nails were out again (not so simple) the wholes were big enough to put my pinky in them!
So they not only destroyed the cable, they also damaged the several hundreds year old parquett!
And all 3 were sober, no alcohol or other kind of.... influence involved.
 
And then complain about short circuits? :blink:

Worked for company (custom made thingies for big events like open air, concert, big conference centers...):
 
made as a part of a bigger system a ~ 1.5 to 2 inch thick cable with 40 fully shielded / seperated channels, 100m long (~ 300 feet) on a drum / reel
 
It was used for an event (concert) in a middle ages build hall, with correspondingly old parquett, all under governmental architectural conservation protection.
 
We have a law that says you have to fixate such a kind of cable, if it is arranged through the visitors area (auditorium), so no one will trap over it. Usually done with Gaffa tape (duct tape) or similar.
 
 
Guess what 3 University students did, as they couldn't find a tape? (solution is soon coming)
 
 
Complain = channels not working, massive internal contacts / short circuits.
 
I started to investigate, pulled the cable a little bit.... what.... there is a fat nail sticking through it?
 
It gets even better:
 
they hammered ~ 95 hand forged (old) nails each ~ meter (each 3 feet) through the cable into the 'protected' parquett.
Hand forged as in at least 5 times as thick as usual for that long / strong kind of nails. 
Till the nails were out again (not so simple) the wholes were big enough to put my pinky in them!
So they not only destroyed the cable, they also damaged the several hundreds year old parquett!
And all 3 were sober, no alcohol or other kind of.... influence involved.
 
And then complain about short circuits? :blink:

Worked for company (custom made thingies for big events like open air, concert, big conference centers...):
 
made as a part of a bigger system a ~ 1.5 to 2 inch thick cable with 40 fully shielded / seperated channels, 100m long (~ 300 feet) on a drum / reel
 
It was used for an event (concert) in a middle ages build hall, with correspondingly old parquett, all under governmental architectural conservation protection.
 
We have a law that says you have to fixate such a kind of cable, if it is arranged through the visitors area (auditorium), so no one will trap over it. Usually done with Gaffa tape (duct tape) or similar.
 
 
Guess what 3 University students did, as they couldn't find a tape? (solution is soon coming)
 
 
Complain = channels not working, massive internal contacts / short circuits.
 
I started to investigate, pulled the cable a little bit.... what.... there is a fat nail sticking through it?
 
It gets even better:
 
they hammered ~ 95 hand forged (old) nails each ~ meter (each 3 feet) through the cable into the 'protected' parquett.
Hand forged as in at least 5 times as thick as usual for that long / strong kind of nails. 
Till the nails were out again (not so simple) the wholes were big enough to put my pinky in them!
So they not only destroyed the cable, they also damaged the several hundreds year old parquett!
And all 3 were sober, no alcohol or other kind of.... influence involved.
 
And then complain about short circuits? :blink: