Sony unlocks PS4's 7th Processing Core for developers.

[Prysin]

You can use a Pentium III 1.4GHz in it after a bit of mucking around so I'd say cost was the important factor.

you know what would be neat?

 

consoles get upgrades all the time... the PS3 alone had 3 or 4 die shrinks

would be DAMN NEAT if they manage to make a 14/16nmFF edition

 

it would probably be so strong that it would effectively become the PS5

[RagnarokDel]

wait... they had extra power and didnt use it on purpose? I just dont even...

 

 

 

Whether it'll still beat equivalently priced PCs, we'll have to see. My prediction? No.

It didnt beat them previously, it's not going to magically do so now.

[GoldSrc]

I see, they are trying to squeeze a few more years out of this console generation.

Good luck with that.

[eLucid]

More performance, hooray.

Whether it'll still beat equivalently priced PCs, we'll have to see. My prediction? No.

 

In the world of gaming, exclusives matter more to most people than "pretty graphics". Stop trying to initiate a console vs pc war. We've seen enough of them and quite frankly, it's getting old.

[Sharkyx1]

Think back to the original Xbox, which by the time the Xbox 360 launched was struggling to keep a constant 30FPS in games which where physics heavy (eg. Mechassault 2 Lone Wolf). Except this console generation hasn't started far ahead or level with PC of the same age, therefore they need a successor that much sooner.

That is an example of not using the hardware right. As i said, Hardware doesn't struggle, software does, If the original xbox can't do heavy physics, you shouldn't write a game with heavy physics for it.

 

This can run on a PS4 with 30fps no drops,

This runs at 60 fps with no drops

Yet Sleeping dogs is extremely variable and  has a hard time maintaining 30

This points to me that the software is the issue.

[Dabombinable]

That is an example of not using the hardware right. As i said, Hardware doesn't struggle, software does, If the original xbox can't do heavy physics, you shouldn't write a game with heavy physics for it.

 

This can run on a PS4 with 30fps no drops,

1886.jpg

This runs at 60 fps with no drops

mgs.jpg

Yet Sleeping dogs is extremely variable and  has a hard time maintaining 30

slippin dogs.jpg

This points to me that the software is the issue.

The Original Xbox only has a 10GB HDD, Pentium III/Celeron 733MHz, 64MB SDRAM, 8MB of vRAM (if I remember correctly) for the custom Geforce 3-Tell me how devs could have squeezed any more performance out of the Original Xbox? Because no amount of BS about software struggling will change the fact that the Xbox's hardware could no longer keep up with ever improving game engines by the launch of the 360. No amount of that BS will change the fact that "next gen" console hardware is already struggling either.

[Sharkyx1]

The Original Xbox only has a 10GB HDD, Pentium III/Celeron 733MHz, 64MB SDRAM, 8MB of vRAM (if I remember correctly) for the custom Geforce 3-Tell me how devs could have squeezed any more performance out of the Original Xbox? Because no amount of BS about software struggling will change the fact that the Xbox's hardware could no longer keep up with ever improving game engines by the launch of the 360. No amount of that BS will change the fact that "next gen" console hardware is already struggling either.

Because you're missing the point.

 

It's not about making the games look better, its about taking away things that bottleneck the system, writing more efficient code.

 

Look at MGSV that game runs at 1080p 60FPS without drops on PS4, is there more you could ask for?

 

The Order 1886 is one of the best looking games to date, and it runs without drops on PS4. Its efficiently coded

 

You wouldn't magically make the original xbox be able to handle those heavy physics effects, you just wouldn't put them in a game on the original xbox. You wouldn't put 4xMSAA on a PS4 game when it could be better used improving drawdistance or other rendering elements either.

 

You keep throwing around this "struggling" word when you don't understand what it means in the context of computers. 

 

 

After seeing the two examples above are you going to tell me that this is a hardware issue and not a software one?

[Dabombinable]

Because you're missing the point.

 

It's not about making the games look better, its about taking away things that bottleneck the system, writing more efficient code.

 

Look at MGSV that game runs at 1080p 60FPS without drops on PS4, is there more you could ask for?

 

The Order 1886 is one of the best looking games to date, and it runs without drops on PS4. Its efficiently coded

 

You wouldn't magically make the original xbox be able to handle those heavy physics effects, you just wouldn't put them in a game on the original xbox. You wouldn't put 4xMSAA on a PS4 game when it could be better used improving drawdistance or other rendering elements either.

 

You keep throwing around this "struggling" word when you don't understand what it means in the context of computers. 

 

Screenshot 2015-11-29 01.25.16.png

 

After seeing the two examples above are you going to tell me that this is a hardware issue and not a software one?

MGSV, software takes a hit so it can run on consoles smoothly at 60FPS.

Order 1886, game play takes a hit so it can look so good.

[Sharkyx1]

MGSV, software takes a hit so it can run on consoles smoothly at 60FPS.

Order 1886, game play takes a hit so it can look so good.

1. Yes thats exactly what i'm saying Kojipro, smartly designed their game to work at the target framerate and resolution this is how games should be made on console

 

2. Good joke but game play doesn't cost cycles, this game looks really good and performs admirably, 1886 had some effects reduced from its original debut to run so well on PS4 this is how games should be made on console

When you are developing on locked hardware you build around the hardware, not just expect the hardware to work for you.

 

That means some games are cpu limited rather then gpu limited.

Then you have a CPU bottleneck you need to remove

[Sharkyx1]

What you think they are doing ? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

I'm missing the joke but i'll assume its hilarious

 

EDIT: ohhhh the topic of this whole post ! i get it

 

but yeah basically this whole thing is a responce to MS who has allowed access to the 7th core since january 2015 and their cpu runs at 1.75ghz so Sony added one more core to the developer access so they aren't slacking behind MS 

 

but basically, even if you are CPU limited you should be <33.3 or <16.6ms on CPU code. If you are going over your CPU time you need to start cutting back on something.

[totjup5]

You got that backwards. The GPU in the PS4 is really powerful. You just have to compromise a lot of things to make up for the lack of CPU power.

Since when is a slightly deprecated 7870 really powerful?

[Dabombinable]

1. Yes thats exactly what i'm saying Kojipro, smartly designed their game to work at the target framerate and resolution this is how games should be made on console

 

2. Good joke but game play doesn't cost cycles, this game looks really good and performs admirably, 1886 had some effects reduced from its original debut to run so well on PS4 this is how games should be made on console

When you are developing on locked hardware you build around the hardware, not just expect the hardware to work for you.

 

Then you have a CPU bottleneck you need to remove

Its not designing the game smartly, its just cutting bits of it off so it runs well. And yes a lot of game play was sacrificed from the Order 1886.

[Sharkyx1]

Since when is a slightly deprecated 7870 really powerful?

Well i don't think he means compared to a titanX but its enough to run modern games at 1080p

 

I think his point was just about how weak the CPU is in comparison. that GPU was a mobile flagship in 2013, but the cpu is more like something out of a tablet.

[Sharkyx1]

Its not designing the game smartly, its just cutting bits of it off so it runs well. And yes a lot of game play was sacrificed from the Order 1886.

That is smart design, what doesn't fit in the timeslot should be cut. By doing so you are making a game right.

 

Answer this:

 

Are you seriously implying better gameplay would have cost The Order in a graphics or framerate manner?

[Dabombinable]

That is smart design, what doesn't fit in the timeslot should be cut. By doing so you are making a game right.

 

Answer this:

 

Are you seriously implying better gameplay would have cost The Order in a graphics or framerate manner?

Cutting something off a game isn't designing it, its cutting part of it off. And no need to imply anything-that's exactly what I was saying.

[Sharkyx1]

And no need to imply anything-that's exactly what I was saying.

okay full stop.

 

Gameplay is not something that is processed. it doesn't cost cpu or gpu cycles to have gameplay. What is your train of thought here, how can gameplay reduce the framerate.

[Dabombinable]

okay full stop.

 

Gameplay is not something that is processed. it doesn't cost cpu or gpu cycles to have gameplay. What is your train of thought here, how can gameplay reduce the framerate.

Something that you seem oblivious to/won't acknowledge, is that the Xbone and PS4 were far behind in regards to hardware when they launched, which is why so much has to be sacrificed, aka removed from games, to get them to run well. And the size of levels is part of game play .

[Frosty11]

What if the PS4 had Zen core APUs and Greenland GPUs with HBM.

[Dabombinable]

What if the PS4 had Zen core APUs and Greenland GPUs with HBM.

Then it would have been similar to previous consoles, and actually fit the title "next gen".

[Sharkyx1]

Something that you seem oblivious to/won't acknowledge, is that the Xbone and PS4 were far behind in regards to hardware when they launched, which is why so much has to be sacrificed, aka removed from games, to get them to run well. And the size of levels is part of game play .

That's not the point im arguing, you made a stupid claim and i refuted it, you said there would be a new console in 3 years because the ones are "struggling" and i responded saying the PS3 and 360 had games that ran poorly in 2006, does that mean there were new consoles in 2009? you were jumping to conclusions.

 

By some stretch of imagination level size could be called gameplay, but thats such a silly way to put it. why didn't you say level size in the first place? gameplay is the controls, the shooting mechanics, wether its 3rd or 1st person, how the character moves, these don't affect the frame rate. 

 

The PS4 and Xbox One do not have titan Xs in them, they aren't intel 5960Xs i know this, i never argued that they were top of the line, but you don't understand the context of what you're saying.

 

Cutting something off a game isn't designing it, its cutting part of it off. 

This is part of design. when you make anything there are things that get cut off, that you cannot do. It is a design decision what to keep and what to let go. Cutting is very much a part of design.

 

If there was a game made that was supposed to be 30fps and say the cloth physics that the developers wrote took 40ms to run, that should be cut right? that is a design decision. Choosing the correct level size, scale and scope are part of design.

 

What else could they be?

 

KojiPro had to cut a lot to fit MGSV in 16.6ms at 1080p on PS4, and that is an achievement. 

 

Also the levels aren't even very small in 1886, or any smaller than they should be, its a linear 3rd person cover shooter.

[Frosty11]

Then it would have been similar to previous consoles, and actually fit the title "next gen".

Yeah actually!

[Sharkyx1]

Yeah actually!

There would still be mostly 1080 30 games, and we'd hear the same complaints, they would be hotter, use more power, louder, cost more and the games would look marginally better.

 

did i tl;dr it enough?

[Dabombinable]

There would still be mostly 1080 30 games, and we'd hear the same complaints, they would be hotter, use more power, louder, cost more and the games would look marginally better.

 

did i tl;dr it enough?

No, they wouldn't be because the consoles would have hardware that doesn't struggle to run modern games.

[Sharkyx1]

No, they wouldn't be because the consoles would have hardware that doesn't struggle to run modern games.

And you wouldn't expect developers to just add more effects?

 

 

A lot of developers would just use the extra power to get better effects at 30FPS

[Dabombinable]

And you wouldn't expect developers to just add more effects?

 

 

A lot of developers would just use the extra power to get better effects at 30FPS

Why the hell do you think that it'd need something like that for 1080p? There are only so many effects that you can add, or in fact that are actually needed at all to make a game look good.