UK vDSL/ADSL2+ modem-router suggestions please

[Pyrii]

My old Billion 7800N is dying, the WiFi is dead so I need a new router. Being able to chuck the locked out Haiwei modem would be great so vDSL (BT FttC 100/20 but hopefully G.Fast 300/? comes soon) support is a must. WiFi g/n/ac with MAC filter too.

 

Since Billion left numerous bugs (domain filter causes memory leak, etc) in the 7800N firmware while stopping support I'm not inclined to go with another Billion product.

 

Would really appreciate some suggestions, I'm willing to spend up to £200 for a good router that will last for another 10 years.

 

I was looking at the TP-Link AC2800 but reviews are mixed on the wireless.

[Falconevo]

Don't spend £200 on a single device, do it properly and get devices that do each individual area well.  This allows you to use these devices in other scenarios later if for example you move to VirginMedia you could still use the router n wifi AP.

 

Here would be my suggestion;

• Draytek Vigor 130 for vDSL modem
• Ubiquiti EdgeRouter-X for Router
• Ubiquiti AC-Lite for WiFi access point

That should be way under £200 and do the job far better than an 'all-in-one' unit.  It will also give you loads of features the all in one device could not.

[Pyrii]

On 01/08/2018 at 9:31 PM, Falconevo said:

Don't spend £200 on a single device, do it properly and get devices that do each individual area well.  This allows you to use these devices in other scenarios later if for example you move to VirginMedia you could still use the router n wifi AP.

 

Here would be my suggestion;

• Draytek Vigor 130 for vDSL modem
• Ubiquiti EdgeRouter-X for Router
• Ubiquiti AC-Lite for WiFi access point

That should be way under £200 and do the job far better than an 'all-in-one' unit.  It will also give you loads of features the all in one device could not.

I was wondering that at some point, but for some reason I thought individual components were much pricier. Does the WiFi also support g/n?

[Falconevo]

7 minutes ago, Pyrii said:

I was wondering that at some point, but for some reason I thought individual components were much pricier. Does the WiFi also support g/n?

Yea, they are always backwards compatible

[Pyrii]

1 hour ago, Falconevo said:

Yea, they are always backwards compatible

Yeah seems the lite is £70-£75, I dunno if PRO will be needed, but there's usually several people using WiFi at the same time, I have a phone and tablet, there's the downstairs TV that uses WiFi for streaming since powerline network adapters have connection issues between floors in our house.

Having a look at the EdgeRouter but can't see PPoE support. I may have to look into modems to see whether they act as router (Not quite a good idea as that then means I have traffic router down a single gigabit cable to the router as gateway.

This method may have lots of clutter but means I can flex my RJ45 cable-making skills again I guess, time to make more patch cables.

[Falconevo]

2 minutes ago, Pyrii said:

Yeah seems the lite is £70-£75, I dunno if PRO will be needed, but there's usually several people using WiFi at the same time, I have a phone and tablet, there's the downstairs TV that uses WiFi for streaming since powerline network adapters have connection issues between floors in our house.

Having a look at the EdgeRouter but can't see PPoE support. I may have to look into modems to see whether they act as router (Not quite a good idea as that then means I have traffic router down a single gigabit cable to the router as gateway.

This method may have lots of clutter but means I can flex my RJ45 cable-making skills again I guess, time to make more patch cables.

I can assure you that the EdgeRouter has PPPoE support, I have about 5 units running on BT lines in separate locations in the UK.

The Lite should be sufficient, if you want to shell out more for the Pro, its simply a bigger unit which is more capable.  Depends how big your home is, I own a 6 bed 3 story town house and I have 2 AC Pros to cover everything.   The AC Lite would likely be perfectly fine for me, but I didn't wanna put anything to chance  

[Pyrii]

36 minutes ago, Falconevo said:

I can assure you that the EdgeRouter has PPPoE support, I have about 5 units running on BT lines in separate locations in the UK.

The Lite should be sufficient, if you want to shell out more for the Pro, its simply a bigger unit which is more capable.  Depends how big your home is, I own a 6 bed 3 story town house and I have 2 AC Pros to cover everything.   The AC Lite would likely be perfectly fine for me, but I didn't wanna put anything to chance  

Seems like an AC Pro may be the way to go, I'm willing to pay more for a bit of piece of mind I don't have to fiddle with it or replace it later. Just looking at modems atm, would prefer something with G.Fast support in case BT ever get off their butts and implement it wider (I'm within 300m of the cab). But I have a feeling we might be moving soon so ADSL2+ support is a bonus just in case we get moved to somewhere without Fibre

[Falconevo]

20 minutes ago, Pyrii said:

Seems like an AC Pro may be the way to go, I'm willing to pay more for a bit of piece of mind I don't have to fiddle with it or replace it later. Just looking at modems atm, would prefer something with G.Fast support in case BT ever get off their butts and implement it wider (I'm within 300m of the cab). But I have a feeling we might be moving soon so ADSL2+ support is a bonus just in case we get moved to somewhere without Fibre

Sounds like a plan, the reason a suggested the Vigor 130... First its absolutely rock solid, second it has really good resale value so they still sell for £60+ in the UK second hand.  If you need a g.fast modem later, you won't have any trouble selling the Vigor 130.

[Pyrii]

Okay, so the PRO AP requires 48V/24W PoE to function but the Edgerouter X only supplies 24V/12W. So I'd need an PoE injector, plus I dunno if Edgerouters can manage the WiFi APs, they don't make this clear on their website.

[Falconevo]

2 hours ago, Pyrii said:

Okay, so the PRO AP requires 48V/24W PoE to function but the Edgerouter X only supplies 24V/12W. So I'd need an PoE injector, plus I dunno if Edgerouters can manage the WiFi APs, they don't make this clear on their website.

They are not the same product family so can't be managed together, the AC Pro comes with its own POE Injector in the box (if you buy new) and the EdgeRouter has its own power 0.5A adapter.  If you have a smart poe switch, you could power each one from that if you needed, it should have 802.af support as I have a site with a Cisco 3560X running a mesh of APs and an EdgeRouter-X.

 

You could look at the Ubiquiti Unifi Security Gateway but they are a lot more money and are not likely to fit inside the £200 budget.  They can be managed with the AP's via the same portal.

[Pyrii]

On 03/08/2018 at 12:49 PM, Falconevo said:

They are not the same product family so can't be managed together, the AC Pro comes with its own POE Injector in the box (if you buy new) and the EdgeRouter has its own power 0.5A adapter.  If you have a smart poe switch, you could power each one from that if you needed, it should have 802.af support as I have a site with a Cisco 3560X running a mesh of APs and an EdgeRouter-X.

 

You could look at the Ubiquiti Unifi Security Gateway but they are a lot more money and are not likely to fit inside the £200 budget.  They can be managed with the AP's via the same portal.

Lots of the reviews on Amazon say it doesn't come with the injector. Would it be better to go with the Lite then? Can that be managed by the EdgeRouter? I think buying a separate dongle/cloud config is just a PITA. Now I'm very confused. I thought it was just those 3 items I needed, now I don't know.

 

My "Shopping List" on amazon looks a bit like this: 

[Falconevo]

3 hours ago, Pyrii said:

Lots of the reviews on Amazon say it doesn't come with the injector. Would it be better to go with the Lite then? Can that be managed by the EdgeRouter? I think buying a separate dongle/cloud config is just a PITA. Now I'm very confused. I thought it was just those 3 items I needed, now I don't know.

 

My "Shopping List" on amazon looks a bit like this: 

 

You only need the below 3, going Pro isn't necessary and I doubt your house is large enough to require it.  The AC Lite defo comes with a POE injector in the box, so does the Pro if you get the retail version.  The Lite should be more than sufficient.

 

[Pyrii]

3 hours ago, Falconevo said:

You only need the below 3, going Pro isn't necessary and I doubt your house is large enough to require it.  The AC Lite defo comes with a POE injector in the box, so does the Pro if you get the retail version.  The Lite should be more than sufficient.

 

Well the Lite can be powered by the router which works since they'll be together. Does PoE wiring differ from normal 5A/5B cable?

 

EDIT; They all seem to be cheaper on SCAN (Modem: £77, AP-LITE: £74, Router: £50). Which is rare since SCAN turned into the GAME of computing parts. Not sure it's worth it though given the terrible customer service I've had from them before.

[Falconevo]

51 minutes ago, Pyrii said:

Well the Lite can be powered by the router which works since they'll be together. Does PoE wiring differ from normal 5A/5B cable?

 

EDIT; They all seem to be cheaper on SCAN (Modem: £77, AP-LITE: £74, Router: £50). Which is rare since SCAN turned into the GAME of computing parts. Not sure it's worth it though given the terrible customer service I've had from them before.

I buy from there, but I worked there when I was very young and still have friends who work there.  So for me personally I usually go for scan.

[Pyrii]

1 hour ago, Falconevo said:

I buy from there, but I worked there when I was very young and still have friends who work there.  So for me personally I usually go for scan.

Unfortunately after a couple of pretty horrendous support experiences with broken hardware, one involved being lied to and then extorted for money for each e-mail related to the return, then they sent me an damaged replacement with all the accessories missing.

Then there's the video card that died after a few months, they no longer stocked it so only refunded me 50% of the value of the card. I've had the same with amazon after 2 years and got a full refund. 

I'm not sure what it would take to get me to shop there again, even though I still get free shipping as a Hexus member.

[Falconevo]

7 minutes ago, Pyrii said:

Unfortunately after a couple of pretty horrendous support experiences with broken hardware, one involved being lied to and then extorted for money for each e-mail related to the return, then they sent me an damaged replacement with all the accessories missing.

Then there's the video card that died after a few months, they no longer stocked it so only refunded me 50% of the value of the card. I've had the same with amazon after 2 years and got a full refund. 

I'm not sure what it would take to get me to shop there again, even though I still get free shipping as a Hexus member.

My experiences will be different because I worked there in the past and can actually go in to the store to bang heads if need be.  Not everyone's experiences are going to be rosey, especially with the returns team

[Pyrii]

7 minutes ago, Falconevo said:

My experiences will be different because I worked there in the past and can actually go in to the store to bang heads if need be.  Not everyone's experiences are going to be rosey, especially with the returns team

Yeah, unless I can get a guarantee that any items that are faulty I can actually return without issue, it's not worth the trouble to save a few quid  As much as I dislike Amazon's employment ethics, at least I won't be out hundreds of quid if there's a problem. I know companies can change, but till I can see for myself they have, I won't risk it. Which is a shame as I'm building a new system soon.

[Falconevo]

1 minute ago, Pyrii said:

Yeah, unless I can get a guarantee that any items that are faulty I can actually return without issue, it's not worth the trouble to save a few quid  As much as I dislike Amazon's employment ethics, at least I won't be out hundreds of quid if there's a problem. I know companies can change, but till I can see for myself they have, I won't risk it. Which is a shame as I'm building a new system soon.

Wait till you return 5 or more faulty amazon products in a short period, you suddenly find out you don't get insta refunded lol

[Pyrii]

4 minutes ago, Falconevo said:

Wait till you return 5 or more faulty amazon products in a short period, you suddenly find out you don't get insta refunded lol

I've only had one or two problems and those have been with marketplace sellers so I usually avoid them if possible. On the whole my support experiences with Amazon have been good, they'll even collect the faulty/broken items because I'm disabled. 2/3 of my return experiences with SCAN has left me disgusted and out of pocket.

 

But yeah I'm shopping around for better deals, OCUK has the AP-Lite for £74 too but it's out of stock and their delivery charges add £9 to the price. I've pretty much exhausted all the computing retailers I know

[Pyrii]

I bit the bullet and bought the Edgerouter X and AP-Lite from SCAN, I'm going to do a bit more research on modems, people have mentioned the chipset in the Vigor 130 causes low syncs with both ECI and Huawei cabs. I assumed it was broadcom, but it's not, it's infeneon. So currently researching if there's any broadcom vDSL modems out there. I might also try the method for unlocking the Huawei modem at some point so I can at least see some stats on my line.

[Falconevo]

12 hours ago, Pyrii said:

I bit the bullet and bought the Edgerouter X and AP-Lite from SCAN, I'm going to do a bit more research on modems, people have mentioned the chipset in the Vigor 130 causes low syncs with both ECI and Huawei cabs. I assumed it was broadcom, but it's not, it's infeneon. So currently researching if there's any broadcom vDSL modems out there. I might also try the method for unlocking the Huawei modem at some point so I can at least see some stats on my line.

I have an EO line which is an exchange only line which is adsl2+, the Vigor syncs at max line speed and has the best line stats between itself and the HG612 (flashed) that I also have.  Get the latest BT firmware from their website, it's no longer an issue.

[Pyrii]

On 05/08/2018 at 7:12 PM, Falconevo said:

I have an EO line which is an exchange only line which is adsl2+, the Vigor syncs at max line speed and has the best line stats between itself and the HG612 (flashed) that I also have.  Get the latest BT firmware from their website, it's no longer an issue.

Sorry for going quiet, been diagnosing my modem, had some weirdness, I've removed the powerline adapters and that's helped.

 

THere's quite a lot of error seconds too still. So doing diagnostics with Plusnet as it seems an outage at my exchange has seriously borked something. Also I have no idea why G.INP isn't enabled on my line.

 

Also I did some research and G.Fast tests are expanding this year, and even trials of ISP/consumer-provided modems on such lines, though the Huawei MT992 is the new modem for G.Fast support. https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2018/06/openreach-plan-self-install-g-fast-broadband-isp-trial-for-late-2018.html

 

Also does anyone know a good place for extremely short runs of RJ11 cable? £5 for a 50cm cord is just insanity https://www.amazon.co.uk/core-Cable-Available-0-30m-0-50m/dp/B07BHNWV28/

[Pyrii]

OKay, so now I'm all set up with the Edgerouter X and AP LITE from Ubiquity that @Falconevo suggested, I'm very happy with them, though setting them up was very much a pain and harsh learning experience. I definately would not suggest these products to anyone less than an expert at Networking.

 

The Edgerouter X is very nice, it's functionality is not shown by it's small form factor, the ability to power it by power over ethernet while also powering another PoE device (My AP LITE) is nice in removing clutter. I do wish I had more ports as I'm still having to use one of my 8-port Netgear switches for extra devices. Setup was not easy but int he end I found a wizard for setting up the device as an Internet router and internal switch. I still haven't figured out where the UPnP map is, and there's no way to schedule things to turn on/off at certain times. There is a task scheduler, but it's cron jobs only and unix scripting is not something I feel I should learn for one feature. Also enabling external pings was only down to my knowledge I already had that pings are ICMP traffic so I could enable it on the firewall.

 

The AP LITE was a mix-bag, the Android app only allows basic configuration and for some reason, RF scanning didn't work via the app. After downloading and running the Unifi controller on my server, getting the AP and controller to talk to eachother was a task and a half. I forget how I managed it in the end. But you can only do MAC whitelisting and RF scanning via the Controller, which are features that are essential to me. As we have older g/b devices that can't use channels 12 & 13, I had to force the AP to use Channel 11 at b/g/n 2.4. It's reliable, uses PoE so is powered by my router, simplifying cabling, so yeah, nice product. I do wonder if I can turn off the controller software and the MAC filter etc all still work. Having to only start the controller to make changes would be nice.

 

I also had to make up about 3 extra cables with my reel of solid core cabling, I felt like it was best for PoE use since I didn't want any resistance or cables heating up. Though straightening solid core wires with my fingers hurt after awhile. I did my usual testing of pins with a multimeter. Haven't made a bad cable yet.

 

 

As for modem, after unlocking my Haiwei MG620 and being able to read stats, I was able to diagnose some problems with my internet, I do still have problems, which I'm working with my ISP to fix, so for now, I'm sticking with my Openreach modem. If I do want a new modem int he future, then I would look at something with a broadcom chip inside I think since most people say those give best speeds and reliability.

 

Still haven't found a cheaper <50cm RJ11 cable.

 

Thanks again to @Falconevo

[Falconevo]

6 hours ago, Pyrii said:

OKay, so now I'm all set up with the Edgerouter X and AP LITE from Ubiquity that @Falconevo suggested, I'm very happy with them, though setting them up was very much a pain and harsh learning experience. I definately would not suggest these products to anyone less than an expert at Networking.

 

The Edgerouter X is very nice, it's functionality is not shown by it's small form factor, the ability to power it by power over ethernet while also powering another PoE device (My AP LITE) is nice in removing clutter. I do wish I had more ports as I'm still having to use one of my 8-port Netgear switches for extra devices. Setup was not easy but int he end I found a wizard for setting up the device as an Internet router and internal switch. I still haven't figured out where the UPnP map is, and there's no way to schedule things to turn on/off at certain times. There is a task scheduler, but it's cron jobs only and unix scripting is not something I feel I should learn for one feature. Also enabling external pings was only down to my knowledge I already had that pings are ICMP traffic so I could enable it on the firewall.

 

The AP LITE was a mix-bag, the Android app only allows basic configuration and for some reason, RF scanning didn't work via the app. After downloading and running the Unifi controller on my server, getting the AP and controller to talk to eachother was a task and a half. I forget how I managed it in the end. But you can only do MAC whitelisting and RF scanning via the Controller, which are features that are essential to me. As we have older g/b devices that can't use channels 12 & 13, I had to force the AP to use Channel 11 at b/g/n 2.4. It's reliable, uses PoE so is powered by my router, simplifying cabling, so yeah, nice product. I do wonder if I can turn off the controller software and the MAC filter etc all still work. Having to only start the controller to make changes would be nice.

 

I also had to make up about 3 extra cables with my reel of solid core cabling, I felt like it was best for PoE use since I didn't want any resistance or cables heating up. Though straightening solid core wires with my fingers hurt after awhile. I did my usual testing of pins with a multimeter. Haven't made a bad cable yet.

 

 

As for modem, after unlocking my Haiwei MG620 and being able to read stats, I was able to diagnose some problems with my internet, I do still have problems, which I'm working with my ISP to fix, so for now, I'm sticking with my Openreach modem. If I do want a new modem int he future, then I would look at something with a broadcom chip inside I think since most people say those give best speeds and reliability.

 

Still haven't found a cheaper <50cm RJ11 cable.

 

Thanks again to @Falconevo

Glad you are happy with the setup  plus learning is always fun!  You will have access to lots of new features to test and see if they are viable for your config(s).

The controller software is just for provisioning config, the config should stay even if the controller isn't running.  You can turn the controller in to a running service for Ubiquiti I do this on a management VM I have to control multiple things in the house.