USB Wall Charger + Powerline Data as means for Smartphone data theft?

[Jackson Glesbie]

Hello LTT people! Long time viewer first time forum poster. I was talking with a friend when this subject came up: could someone have or build a custom USB wall charger with similar electronics inside to a powerline Ethernet adaptor, and use it along with some device elsewhere in a building to pull photos and other personal info off a phone? 

 

Is this feasible? Will we live in a day where we have to worry about a stalker, or the FBI, or some other person or group hacking into our phones by using a USB wall adapter? There's already a similar exploit at public USB charging stations, all you'd need to do is add the technology in a powerline Ethernet adapter. That's a really scary notion that you might not be able to trust even a USB wall adapter...

 

How realistic is this and should I worry about this? 

 

Thanks LTT!

[gnomik]

Just set the phone to charge only. lol

[WereCatf]

13 minutes ago, Jackson Glesbie said:

Hello LTT people! Long time viewer first time forum poster. I was talking with a friend when this subject came up: could someone have or build a custom USB wall charger with similar electronics inside to a powerline Ethernet adaptor, and use it along with some device elsewhere in a building to pull photos and other personal info off a phone?

Yes, it is actually a pretty feasible thing to do and has been done before. There have been cases where e.g. those phone-chargers available for the public on airports have been compromised by someone, replacing the charging-circuitry with something that leeches the data off and sends it onwards, or tries to install extra crap on the phone itself. The lesson is, never plug any untrusted USB-devices, including chargers, into your devices -- unless you buy a cable or adapter with the data-lines cut off and use that.

[gnomik]

Just now, WereCatf said:

unless you buy a cable or adapter with the data-lines cut off and use that.

That would be useless. Cuz the data lines are used for charger identifictaion(kind of). And quick charge uses them to request qc as far as i know.

[WereCatf]

Just now, gnomik said:

That would be useless. Cuz the data lines are used for charger identifictaion(kind of). And quick charge uses them to request qc as far as i know.

It wouldn't be entirely useless, the charger would still supply the 500mA-current to the phone.

[Jackson Glesbie]

Just now, WereCatf said:

Yes, it is actually a pretty feasible thing to do and has been done before. There have been cases where e.g. those phone-chargers available for the public on airports have been compromised by someone, replacing the charging-circuitry with something that leeches the data off and sends it onwards, or tries to install extra crap on the phone itself. The lesson is, never plug any untrusted USB-devices, including chargers, into your devices -- unless you buy a cable or adapter with the data-lines cut off and use that.

Wouldn't your phone charge incredibly slowly if there is no data line? How would the phone tell the adaptor how much power it can take?

 

Still that's unfortunate, a lot of people would think using an adapter over a USB port built into a charging station would be sufficient.

[gnomik]

Just now, WereCatf said:

It wouldn't be entirely useless, the charger would still supply the 500mA-current to the phone.

Maybe 500ma maybe not. It can only be charging with 100ma aswell.

 

[WereCatf]

Just now, Jackson Glesbie said:

Wouldn't your phone charge incredibly slowly if there is no data line? How would the phone tell the adaptor how much power it can take?

There are a lot of different ways, but the most basic way of telling the charger to supply more current is to apply a resistor/resistors to the data-lines -- they don't actually need to be connected with the device that is to be charged at all.

[Jackson Glesbie]

Just now, gnomik said:

Maybe 500ma maybe not. It can only be charging with 100ma aswell.

 

That's what my understanding has been, it needs to handshake first right?

[Jackson Glesbie]

1 minute ago, WereCatf said:

There are a lot of different ways, but the most basic way of telling the charger to supply more current is to apply a resistor/resistors to the data-lines -- they don't actually need to be connected with the device that is to be charged at all.

Interesting ok I wasn't aware

[gnomik]

Just now, Jackson Glesbie said:

That's what my understanding has been, it needs to handshake first right?

It starts with 100-500mA(depends on the phone). Then after the handshake qc (or some other fast charge methodl) kicks in.

[gnomik]

4 minutes ago, WereCatf said:

they don't actually need to be connected with the device that is to be charged at all.

How does the phone know its plugged into a charger then?

[WereCatf]

1 minute ago, Jackson Glesbie said:

Interesting ok I wasn't aware

See e.g. https://www.amazon.com/Plugable-Universal-Charge-Only-Adapter-Android/dp/B00FA9GXKM -- the data-lines aren't actually connected to your device, there are some resistors inside the casing there to let the charger know that it should supply more than the 500mA-current. There are similar ones for Quick Charge, too, but they have an actual chip inside there to do the same, not just resistors.

[WereCatf]

Just now, gnomik said:

How does the phone know its plugged into a charger then?

Because there's a 5V-difference between the GND and +5V - pins...

[gnomik]

1 minute ago, WereCatf said:

Because there's a 5V-difference between the GND and +5V - pins...

Funny. But thats not enough. If you dont have a resistor network somewhere on the phone side(cable or smth). Then it wont charge. That adapter that you linked most likely has a resistor network inside it.

 

[WereCatf]

Just now, gnomik said:

Funny. But thats not enough. If you dont have a resistor network somewhere on the phone side(cable or smth). Then it wont charge. That adapter that you linked most likely has a resistor network inside it.

 

Depends on the phone. All of my phones and tablets charge just fine with a regular USB-cable with the data-lines cut, they're just limited to 500mA.

[Pixel5]

that would not be possible because you have no connection from the wall socket to the data line from the USB and also not the other way around.

 

no way to send a signal from the phone into the power line and also no way for the phone to receive a signal from the power line.

[Mira Yurizaki]

5 hours ago, Jackson Glesbie said:

Is this feasible? Will we live in a day where we have to worry about a stalker, or the FBI, or some other person or group hacking into our phones by using a USB wall adapter? There's already a similar exploit at public USB charging stations, all you'd need to do is add the technology in a powerline Ethernet adapter. That's a really scary notion that you might not be able to trust even a USB wall adapter...

The address the "similar exploit", that's just something that's supplying the USB cable listening in using USB based protocols. It could literally be a computer with a powered USB hub on the other side that you're connecting to.

 

If you're talking about a wall charger, most look too small to small to house the electronics needed for power line networking. I'm going to presume such equipment won't get smaller due to the necessity of safely crossing over to the mains supply and back. Besides that, power line networking equipment tends to not work if it's connected to a surge protector because it filters the signal out.

[Sniperfox47]

5 hours ago, gnomik said:

That would be useless. Cuz the data lines are used for charger identifictaion(kind of). And quick charge uses them to request qc as far as i know.

 

5 hours ago, Jackson Glesbie said:

Wouldn't your phone charge incredibly slowly if there is no data line? How would the phone tell the adaptor how much power it can take?

 

Still that's unfortunate, a lot of people would think using an adapter over a USB port built into a charging station would be sufficient.

 

 

^^Not super relevant but here's another benefit to USB-C! With a properly compliant USB-C 1.5A  (7.5W) or 3.0A (15W) charger and USB-C device you can cut the data lines to your heart's content! All the signalling for USB-C current modes are done on dedicated CC lines!

 

Note this is just standard USB-C Current Charging mode that's part of the USB-C spec. Power delivery also works the same way, with all the signalling being done on the dedicated CC lines, but you don't *need* Power Delivery to avoid using the data lines for charging negotiation.

[Beef Boss]

Make a USB 'condom' you'll have to either find one online or build one with something or a custom pcb. Basically it goes into a female USB, with a male USB but only the charging pads not the data pads. 

 

Basically it only allows for charging not data.