Aspiring builder with a few questions

[Koopa9]

For close to a year now I have been trying to do as much research as I could on building a PC (Lots of youtube Articles benchmarks as much as I could find.), and now that’s the time has come more questions seem to just come up as far as how should I budget the build ? I have my heart set on something that has future upgrade-ability.

I decided to go with the i7 i8700k (which I just purchased) 

Which brings me too the motherboard choices, I have come to really like the look and some of the features on the Maximus X Formula, I would like to eventually watercool it (either kit or custom loop at some point when I get more comfortable with it and of course the funds,) I know I don’t really need that specific board to watercool but has some nice features targeted for it, or it seems and a few of the other features are cool.

Am I spending too much of the budget here? Should I try to talk myself into a downgrade on the board ?

I want to go with the Corsair Dominator DDR4 (not going to lie this choice is totally based on just being able to change the color to fit the build and it looks amazing and seems to have good reviews , I have also read that 16gb is kinda the minimum you would want for the gaming/editing build 

Question: If I buy 16gb (2x8) now and want to upgrade at a later date (I would love 24 but I know the ram sticks are sold in packs of two based off compatibility apparently ?) What is the best way to set myself up on that upgrade path?

Storage: 250gb m.2 NvMe 500 gb SSD (maybe some sort of external drive ?)

Cooling: I would love to go with a AIO here I know I’ve read some things that say air damn close in efficiency but damn if that air cooler isn’t massive lol more of a cosmetic thing and kinda get myself into that watercooling mode as I mention above, any suggestions here ? I would like a white one to fit with the build tho I have only found one brand who makes them and it really doesn’t have good reviews

Case: I’m seriously considering the fractal design R6 (in hopes they make a second TG panel available, any suggestions here? Would like newb build room future water cooling space and I would love be TG on both sides (want to get some custom cables)

Now all of this isn’t in one purchase of course gradually over a few months I think. Which brings me to the gpu

I’ve looked into the 1080 and ti should I try to move more of the budget to take it to the 1080ti? I want to eventually get a 2nd gpu, so do i move more of the budget to get the 1080 ti or 1080 in hopes of getting a second sooner ?

I do appreciate you all taking the time to scope out my post and helping me out I’m at a total loss right now and excited to hear back from those in the PC Master Race

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[Sernefarian]

For GPu I suggest getting either a 1080 Ti or a 1080 instead of a pair of GPUs, SLI in video games is currently poorly supported in comparison to the past. Nvidia has been moving away from it for the sake of gaming. You could also depending on time frame consider instead snagging an equivalent performer from the 11 series cards which should release in quarter 3 this year instead.

 

For the m.2 SSD here is a possible suggestion list:

 

 

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/kGndnQ/western-digital-black-nvme-250gb-m2-2280-solid-state-drive-wds250g2x0c - Western Digital provides drive cloning and copying software.

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/LGdxFT/adata-xpg-sx8200-240gb-m2-2280-solid-state-drive-asx8200np-240gt-c - highest performer

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/ZNBrxr/samsung-960-evo-250gb-m2-2280-solid-state-drive-mz-v6e250

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/2JVD4D/adata-xpg-sx6000-256gb-m2-2280-solid-state-drive-asx6000np-256gt-c - best price

 

For the 2.5" SSD here is another, shorter suggestion list

 

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/sNc48d/samsung-860-evo-250gb-25-solid-state-drive-mz-76e250bam

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/4mkj4D/crucial-mx500-250gb-25-solid-state-drive-ct250mx500ssd1 - Highest Performer

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/7YQRsY/a-data-ultimate-su800-256gb-25-solid-state-drive-asu800ss-256gt-c - lowest cost of listed high-moderate performer

 

Could you link the specific corsair kit you are looking at?

 

For cooling what radiator size would you be looking at as a maximum? 360MM? if so are you prioritizing cooling or sound profile?

[Koopa9]

I would definitely like to do something at least the 240, I will be upgrading the fans or whichever AIO any suggestions there? I’d like to be able to hold a stead 5ghtz 

 

[Koopa9]

1 hour ago, Sernefarian said:

For GPu I suggest getting either a 1080 Ti or a 1080 instead of a pair of GPUs, SLI in video games is currently poorly supported in comparison to the past. Nvidia has been moving away from it for the sake of gaming. You could also depending on time frame consider instead snagging an equivalent performer from the 11 series cards which should release in quarter 3 this year instead.

 

For the m.2 SSD here is a possible suggestion list:

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/kGndnQ/western-digital-black-nvme-250gb-m2-2280-solid-state-drive-wds250g2x0c - Western Digital provides drive cloning and copying software.

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/LGdxFT/adata-xpg-sx8200-240gb-m2-2280-solid-state-drive-asx8200np-240gt-c - highest performer

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/ZNBrxr/samsung-960-evo-250gb-m2-2280-solid-state-drive-mz-v6e250

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/2JVD4D/adata-xpg-sx6000-256gb-m2-2280-solid-state-drive-asx6000np-256gt-c - best price
 

 

 

 

For the 2.5" SSD here is another, shorter suggestion list

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/sNc48d/samsung-860-evo-250gb-25-solid-state-drive-mz-76e250bam

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/4mkj4D/crucial-mx500-250gb-25-solid-state-drive-ct250mx500ssd1 - Highest Performer

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/7YQRsY/a-data-ultimate-su800-256gb-25-solid-state-drive-asu800ss-256gt-c - lowest cost of listed high-moderate performer
 

 

 

 

Could you link the specific corsair kit you are looking at?

 

For cooling what radiator size would you be looking at as a maximum? 360MM? if so are you prioritizing cooling or sound profile?

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/XxcMnQ/corsair-memory-cmd16gx4m2b3200c16

 

and definitely at least 240mm on the rad

[Sernefarian]

Pretty sure those are samsung B-Die kits, but not entirely sure. Am certain that cl 14-14-14-34 3200 Mhz kits are Samsung B-Die though. They should perform beautifully Moving to CL14 kits is in the range of $13.10 less up to $87.96 more with a probably minor overall increase in performance. The $87.96 kit happens to be a Corsair Dominator of the same styling as well.

[Sernefarian]

This Gamer's Nexus list is a few months old, but should give you a pretty good idea of the best overall cooling performers on the market though finding the best cooling per $ at the moment will take some time.

 

https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3144-the-best-liquid-coolers-for-cpus-2017-holiday-sales-guide

[Koopa9]

21 minutes ago, Sernefarian said:

Pretty sure those are samsung B-Die kits, but not entirely sure. Am certain that cl 14-14-14-34 3200 Mhz kits are Samsung B-Die though. They should perform beautifully Moving to CL14 kits is in the range of $13.10 less up to $87.96 more with a probably minor overall increase in performance. The $87.96 kit happens to be a Corsair Dominator of the same styling as well.

Could you link me to the kit your talking about ?

 

[Sernefarian]

The lowest cost CL 14 3200 MHZ Kit: Trident Z RGB: https://pcpartpicker.com/product/8Mbkcf/gskill-memory-f43200c14d16gtz

 

The Corsair Kit I mentioned: https://pcpartpicker.com/product/2Pbkcf/corsair-dominator-platinum-16gb-2-x-8gb-ddr4-3200-memory-cmd16gx4m2b3200c14

 

This page should be organized such that you can scope the CL 14 3200 Mhz kits easily. If it's not sorted by lowest CAS then click that column until it is:

 

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/2Pbkcf/corsair-dominator-platinum-16gb-2-x-8gb-ddr4-3200-memory-cmd16gx4m2b3200c14

[Koopa9]

First I’d like to thank you for all your help I really do appreciate it, RAM upgrades, I want to go 16 now and understand I can’t just go buy 8gb more and throw it in there so should I buy to fill all the ram slots ? Or go with two 8gb. Or 4x4?

 

i apologize for any dumb questions still learning 

[Sernefarian]

Short answer is if you'd only like to have 16GB of ram going with 2x8 GB will likely cost you less and provide the same performance. There is a longer and more in depth answer below that explains why and when the 4x4GB kit would be the better choice.

 

With the Ryzen and consumer core i series chips, most specifically those that are AM4 and LGA 1151 as opposed to the current TR4 and LGA 2066 chips and chipsets, having 2x8 Gb @ 3200 Mhz Cl 16-16-16-36 will be roughly the same memory performance as 4x4 GB 3200 MHZ cl 16-16-16-36. On a TR4 or LGA 2066 board you'll get a noticeable memory performance increase from going with the 4x4 GB kit over the 2x8 Gb kit. This is due to the AM4 and LGA 1151 boards currently only doing up to dual channel memory while the other boards mentioned do quad channel memory.

 

One way to look at single dual and quad channel is that for single channel you have one pathway of communication, for dual channel you have between 2 and 4 memory sticks with pathway one assigned to one stick or pair of sticks, and pathway two assigned to another stick or pair of sticks. With quad channel you have 4 pathways for 4 sticks. For each of the configurations the size of an individual pathway is the same, but the greater quantity of them allows for more information traffic.

Edited July 31, 2018 by Sernefarian
TYPO!

[Koopa9]

12 minutes ago, Sernefarian said:

Short answer is if you'd only like to have 16GB of ram going with 2x8 GB will likely cost you less and provide the same performance. There is a longer and more in depth answer below that explains why and when the 4x4GB kit would be the better choice.

 

With the Ryzen and consumer core i series chips, most specifically those that are AM4 and LGA 1151 as opposed to the current TR4 and LGA 2066 chips and chipsets, having 2x8 Gb @ 3200 Mhz Cl 16-16-16-36 will be roughly the same memory performance as 4x4 GB 3200 MHZ cl 16-16-16-36. On a TR4 or LGA 2066 board you'll get a noticeable memory performance increase from going with the 4x4 GB kit over the 2x8 Gb kit. This is due to the AM4 and LGA 1151 boards currently only doing up to dual channel memory while the other boards mentioned do quad channel memory.

 

One way to look at single dual and quad channel is that for single channel you have one pathway of communication, for dual channel you have between 2 and 4 memory sticks with pathway one assigned to one stick or pair of sticks, and pathway two assigned to another stick or pair of sticks. With quad channel you have 4 pathways for 4 sticks. For each of the configurations the size of an individual pathway is the same, but the greater quantity of them allows for more information traffic.

Thanks, I really wasn’t paying attention to timings and all that other stuff until it was brought up here 

 

I also saw some at the Best Buy for $225-2x8gb I know you mentioned the price to performance as far as timings and the changes wondering should I consider this or the previous option from new egg the $275 

[Sernefarian]

That RAM will be quite adequate, however I still suggest going with the the Trident Z I linked instead as it costs less and the other timing measurements are tighter than for the Corsair 3200 Mhz Corsair kits so far linked.

[Koopa9]

I’ll be honest most of the attraction to the Corsair set is purely it looking bad ass and the ability to paint the overtop shielding to match the build it is just haha vein I know but I will now seriously consider it

 

Im debating my case choice and finding it difficult to find cases based on fill ports and all that, looking into the AIO a couple extra $ I could move to the 240ek starter kit ? Crazy? 

 

 

[Sernefarian]

IIRC the EKWB kits are actually geared towards use as AIOs and as potentially expandable custom solutions. They are supposed to be really nice, but have yet to experience the pleasure myself.

 

From the numbers I have seen on various sites it seems that despite the wide variance that reveiwers appear to get with various cooling kits that at each radiator size the EKWB kits perform in the top 5-15% or so consistently.

 

If noise is not a huge concern EVGA's CLC kits perform beautifully as well so you could consider those as well.

[Koopa9]

Thoughts on case ? I’m trying to find spots in my build tokinda sneak a few dollars maybe where I fell into a trap a bit 

 

also with the evga evga is that the 280 variant ? And noise a issue with new fans? And fans what would be a recommendation there ? I’d like a white fan if at all possible 

[Sernefarian]

These two 240MMs seems to be a pair of the highest performers according to the Gamer's Nexus review with the 100i being both noticeably quieter and slightly warmer under full load than the CLC 240. 32.5 DBa vs 58 Dba with a margin of around 2-3 degrees C in temperature.

[Sernefarian]

For fans ... perhaps try a pair of these ones:

 

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/PZNp99/corsair-case-fan-co9050001ww

[Koopa9]

26 minutes ago, Sernefarian said:

For fans ... perhaps try a pair of these ones:

 

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/PZNp99/corsair-case-fan-co9050001ww

Thoughts on case, starting to think I should have gone smaller gpu to free up the budget to get the 1080ti at System launch 

[Koopa9]

On 7/31/2018 at 11:05 PM, Sernefarian said:

For fans ... perhaps try a pair of these ones:

 

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/PZNp99/corsair-case-fan-co9050001ww

Run into another problem the ram I’m looking at isn’t on the qvr list is that a huge problem? I assume this particular ram is popular enough to warrant compatibility 

[Sernefarian]

1 hour ago, Koopa9 said:

Run into another problem the ram I’m looking at isn’t on the qvr list is that a huge problem? I assume this particular ram is popular enough to warrant compatibility 

Even if the RAM is not on the QVL it will in the highest likelihood work just fine. QVLs are more of a way of the manufacturers letting you know that they have tested that aprticular RAM kit with the motherboard and found it to be functional with it, and the clock speed which they were able to run it at.

[Koopa9]

13 minutes ago, Sernefarian said:

Even if the RAM is not on the QVL it will in the highest likelihood work just fine. QVLs are more of a way of the manufacturers letting you know that they have tested that aprticular RAM kit with the motherboard and found it to be functional with it, and the clock speed which they were able to run it at.

Seriously man I can’t thank you enough for all the help oh have been top notch would there be another place to verify ?

[Sernefarian]

At least one RAm vendor I know of keeps recent QVLs for consumer use. That company is G Skill, Corsair used to do so as well, but seems to have gone on hiatus with that since the launch of Intel's Z270 boards.

[Koopa9]

Try it and live on the edge or what?

[Sernefarian]

Worst case scenario with a fully functioning kit is that instead of the XMP just working you'll need to manually adjust timings and clock in order to get the vendor rated speeds. Might also be able to get yourself higher clock speeds than the vendor rated it for which would be a win. Just make sure you keep the timings tight enough to be worth the additional clock speed. One quicka nd dirty way of checking that is to take the clock speed and divide by the Cas Latency eg the first 14 from a list like this 14-14-14-34. That will give you a number you can use to make a rough comparison between different timings and clock speeds. What you want is for the dividend to be the largest number you can run in a stable configuration. Make sure to do some memory benchmarks as well to make sure your read write and access speeds are at least staying the same or going up, and keep an eye on your latnecy. If latency gets high enough having the higher clock speed just isn't worth it.

[Koopa9]

Thanks again man! I’ll keep you posted on my progress