How Nvidia's GameWorks Program Will Affect Gaming.

[GamerDude]

I think the point is that Nvidia doesn't want to put all that work into making libraries for AMD to take advantage from it. It doesn't really make sense for Nvidia to help out AMD now does it.

Let me guess, there's an nV card or two in your system, right? I have nV cards too, but it's BS like this that really ruins it for the PC gaming platform. People forget that IF it weren't for AMD's release of the R9 series of cards, in particular, the higher end ones, nV fanboys would still be paying 650USD for a GTX780.....or have they already forgotten about that? I love competition, but make it fair, arm twisting a game devs to favor you isn't fair.....but I'm sure nV fanboys would have a different take on that. :rolleyes:

[JayD]

This sort of shady, anti-consumer practice makes me likely to avoid all nVidia hardware and nVidia sponsored games in the future.

[Yoinkerman]

I thought arkham origins performance was all over the place because it's a poorly coded knockoff.

[Simmytu]

I have a weird feeling for owning, recommending and building PC's with Nvidia GPU's in them. This is not what PC's were meant to be, they supposed to be open source and companies help each other to make better products for the end user, not locking technologies down and make fun out of companies that do their best to be co-operative. I don't see the point in myself to recommend Nvidia products anymore if this shady practices continue.  

[afa7336]

Overall? Nvidia does have a right to have things closed, remember, their first priority is to MAKE MONEY. Fine, you don't like it, oh well. Here is the fun thing with Mantle... No game currently out using it, none. The BF4 update has apparently been "delayed" as it didn't release this month. Does that mean it sucks? Nope, sure doesn't. Does it mean there is a problem? Maybe. We have Gameworks giving a performance boost in a publicly available way.

 

I think people do not also understand that for Mantle to work with Nvidia will probably require a change to the way Nvidia hardware works. Just like G-Sync would require a hardware change on AMD cards (if AMD were able to use G-Sync). So are you cool with AMD doing that to Mantle?

 

The problem is, this is how BUSINESS works, anyone that tells you different is full of smelly crap. Period.

 

Oh boy I thought we were just finished with Nvidia's OriginPC scandal but oh no.

 

Wow, people still believe that silly nonsense with OriginPC? Jeez, I thought that was over with, and taken care of. How many articles said Nvidia did it? 1. How many backed up Origin? Many.

[TheRuke]

[TERAFLOP]

Wow, people still believe that silly nonsense with OriginPC? Jeez, I thought that was over with, and taken care of. How many articles said Nvidia did it? 1. How many backed up Origin? Many.

What are you even talking about ? even Linus confirmed it and said that the Tier 0 or Tier 1 program or whatever it's called was cancelled.

 

[TheRuke]

I think people do not also understand that for Mantle to work with Nvidia will probably require a change to the way Nvidia hardware works. Just like G-Sync would require a hardware change on AMD cards (if AMD were able to use G-Sync). So are you cool with AMD doing that to Mantle?

 

 

Wow, people still believe that silly nonsense with OriginPC? Jeez, I thought that was over with, and taken care of. How many articles said Nvidia did it? 1. How many backed up Origin? Many.

 

Mantle is Open Source. G-Sync is Not.

 

No, it is the consumers job to be aware of shady business practices.

[afa7336]

Mantle is Open Source. G-Sync is Not.

 

No, it is the consumers job to be aware of shady business practices.

 

Correct, but how is it shady? How can you be shady when you are creating something to WORK with YOUR OWN product? If a movie is released only on blu-ray is it shady business (because not everyone has that type of player)? How about wheels (rims) that are released for a specific car, is that shady (because not everyone has that specific make/model)? How about software for a particular OS (we see this with games and programs ALL the time)? You have no idea what you're talking about, do you? Nvidia isn't shady, nor is AMD. Of course being Nvidia, they get unwarranted hate like this from people that don't know the first thing about business and the way to run a successful company.

 

When in society did things change to where everyone has to bow down to their competition. If this happened, you realize what would happen?

 

There isn't any reports of Mantle even being compatible with Nvidia hardware. By your words, you think AMD is shady too because it isn't fully compatible out of the box? Of course not. People don't care to look at the real picture.

 

*Call me a fanboy if you want, but I do run both AMD and Intel, and AMD and Nvidia.

[TheRuke]

Correct, but how is it shady? How can you be shady when you are creating something to WORK with YOUR OWN product? If a movie is released only on blu-ray is it shady business (because not everyone has that type of player)? How about wheels (rims) that are released for a specific car, is that shady (because not everyone has that specific make/model)? How about software for a particular OS (we see this with games and programs ALL the time)? You have no idea what you're talking about, do you? Nvidia isn't shady, nor is AMD. Of course being Nvidia, they get unwarranted hate like this from people that don't know the first thing about business and the way to run a successful company.

 

When in society did things change to where everyone has to bow down to their competition. If this happened, you realize what would happen?

 

There isn't any reports of Mantle even being compatible with Nvidia hardware. By your words, you think AMD is shady too because it isn't fully compatible out of the box? Of course not. People don't care to look at the real picture.

 

*Call me a fanboy if you want, but I do run both AMD and Intel, and AMD and Nvidia.

Except they were bribed and told to tell the public they dropped AMD because it was not as good as Nvidia. Since Origin PC is pretty well known this could have cause damage to the AMD name. But smart consumers like you and myself, were able to see that it was a lie, and investigated to find out what had really happened.

 

Do you think what Apple is doing with excessive patent wars is okay? I think it's ridiculous, instead of producing better products they focus on dismantling other companies. I know competition is good for the economy, but the way nvidia is doing so is underhanded and wrong.

 

Mantle relies on a GCN architecture, that doesn't mean Nvidia can take opensource code and change it to suit them. I think they're to busy right now working on G-sync. (An Nvidia exclusive)

 

Call me a fanboy because I am one. but that doesn't mean I'm not open minded.

[GamerDude]

*Call me a fanboy if you want, but I do run both AMD and Intel, and AMD and Nvidia.

Same, I have noth Intel and AMD CPU's, AMD and nVidia cards as well.......I've always preferred AMD over nVidia. But it's obvious from your post which you prefer. I owe neither any loyalty but find AMD to be more open, and hence, better for the PC community as a whole. For example, TressFX, you may show your disdain for it if you like, but when AMD introduced TressFX in TR, nVidia cards were able to run it, albeit with bad framerate hit due to Kepler's lack of DirectCompute performance. AMD could easily have locked it, and kept it proprietary, but they chose not to. TheRuke has made a very good point with regards to Mantle, nVidia is fast becoming the Apple of GPU....

 

When Batman AA was released, Lo and behold, AMD cards cannot do AA.......before that, AA for any title was a given, neither company restricted it. Trust nVidia to start this nonsense, proprietary AA? What's next? This insidious Gamewroks? Do you really think this is good for PC as a whole? But, I'm sure you have your own take on this..... :rolleyes:

[afa7336]

Except they were bribed and told to tell the public they dropped AMD because it was not as good as Nvidia. Since Origin PC is pretty well known this could have cause damage to the AMD name. But smart consumers like you and myself, were able to see that it was a lie, and investigated to find out what had really happened.

 

Do you think what Apple is doing with excessive patent wars is okay? I think it's ridiculous, instead of producing better products they focus on dismantling other companies. I know competition is good for the economy, but the way nvidia is doing so is underhanded and wrong.

 

Mantle relies on a GCN architecture, that doesn't mean Nvidia can take opensource code and change it to suit them. I think they're to busy right now working on G-sync. (An Nvidia exclusive)

 

Call me a fanboy because I am one. but that doesn't mean I'm not open minded.

 

I see this thrown around, can I see your proof besides unnamed sources? Because all I've ever heard is unnamed sources. I look at the available facts at hand, and since we don't have any facts to back up this claim, I can't believe it. I used this example during the whole thing. If I were to say that I had sources inside Asus that said they were paying Linus off so that he only featured Asus Soundcards and NONE from Creative (He has no unboxing on his channel for them by the way), would you believe me. Remember, I say I have really good sources I trust. Of course not, it'd sound crazy. Its one of those things where you have to weigh unnamed sources versus all available information. Were the complaints about AMD GPUs true. Yep. Could it have led them to pull it. Yep. Could Nvidia have paid them money. Yep. But does that mean Nvidia did, of course not.

 

As for the patent wars, I'm on the fence about the whole Samsung thing. They won, they are WELL within their rights to get the products pulled. Is it good or bad, like I posted in that thread, I really am on the fence. I can see both sides to it and that makes it hard.

 

The problem you get, and something you probably don't know, is if you change Mantle enough then it becomes another API all together. An API needs to make the calls the same for it to be easily implemented across platform. While it is open source, if it requires a change, that means developers would have to do double the coding to make the calls without a hardware level change on Nvidias side. So yeah, its open source, but a dick move by your book because it forces a change on Nvidia architecture. I don't see people screaming about that.

 

Same, I have noth Intel and AMD CPU's, AMD and nVidia cards as well.......I've always preferred AMD over nVidia. But it's obvious from your post which you prefer. I owe neither any loyalty but find AMD to be more open, and hence, better for the PC community as a whole. For example, TressFX, you may show your disdain for it if you like, but when AMD introduced TressFX in TR, nVidia cards were able to run it, albeit with bad framerate hit due to Kepler's lack of DirectCompute performance. AMD could easily have locked it, and kept it proprietary, but they chose not to. TheRuke has made a very good point with regards to Mantle, nVidia is fast becoming the Apple of GPU....

 

When Batman AA was released, Lo and behold, AMD cards cannot do AA.......before that, AA for any title was a given, neither company restricted it. Trust nVidia to start this nonsense, proprietary AA? What's next? This insidious Gamewroks? Do you really think this is good for PC as a whole? But, I'm sure you have your own take on this..... :rolleyes:

 

First I have no loyalty in Computer parts, nor GPUs. The only loyalty I have ever have had brand wise is with Porsche. But thats because when my old 968 (when new) messed up two weeks after owning it, Porsche went well beyond what they really had to do (I had problems with a '94 'Vette that it was like pulling out teeth to get Chevy to fix) in not only fixing the problem but making sure that they made up for their mistake ten fold. But I digress. You see, you think that because they make something that is for their product, its bad. Do you think that every company that makes their programs or games for just one OS is evil and should be boycotted? Do you think AMD is evil because they don't make their sockets compatible with Intel CPUs, or Intel making their sockets compatible with AMDs for instance? Because its sorta the same thing. How about every car company that makes parts for specific cars when they could produce say panels for every car easily enough? How about a company that only makes clothing for women, and not clothing for men, are they evil?

 

I tend to take a standpoint on this from a business prospective because well, I own a company. Its not in tech, no where near it actually. But if it comes down to me helping a competitor and hurting my bottom line, or helping my bottom line what would you have me chose? Should I help my competition put money in their pocket so I have less money to feed my family and the families of my employees?

[Kamina]

AMD, in who we trust.

 

Beginning to dislike Nvidia more and more every time I hear their arrogance and douchebaggy attitude. 

[Blew]

I don't like this kind of practice by either amd or nvidia.. but they are companies and there number 1 objective is to sell as many cards as possible, so it makes total sense that they would do this. 

[yhatz17]

but locking the codes away from developers is not a good thing.. thats the main point for me..

[TheRuke]

I see this thrown around, can I see your proof besides unnamed sources? Because all I've ever heard is unnamed sources. I look at the available facts at hand, and since we don't have any facts to back up this claim, I can't believe it. I used this example during the whole thing. If I were to say that I had sources inside Asus that said they were paying Linus off so that he only featured Asus Soundcards and NONE from Creative (He has no unboxing on his channel for them by the way), would you believe me. Remember, I say I have really good sources I trust. Of course not, it'd sound crazy. Its one of those things where you have to weigh unnamed sources versus all available information. Were the complaints about AMD GPUs true. Yep. Could it have led them to pull it. Yep. Could Nvidia have paid them money. Yep. But does that mean Nvidia did, of course not.

 

As for the patent wars, I'm on the fence about the whole Samsung thing. They won, they are WELL within their rights to get the products pulled. Is it good or bad, like I posted in that thread, I really am on the fence. I can see both sides to it and that makes it hard.

 

The problem you get, and something you probably don't know, is if you change Mantle enough then it becomes another API all together. An API needs to make the calls the same for it to be easily implemented across platform. While it is open source, if it requires a change, that means developers would have to do double the coding to make the calls without a hardware level change on Nvidias side. So yeah, its open source, but a dick move by your book because it forces a change on Nvidia architecture. I don't see people screaming about that.

 

If you view Nvidia and AMD as equal, why don't OriginPC? The only way that could have been swayed is by being offered money. Don't you think it is also odd they dropped AMD right after the R9 series launched?

 

It's not just that one battle. Look at this. They're filing charges AGAIN.

 

But most of the work is done and out there. G-Sync isn't even that amazing. It would be good for people with a lower end card but if you're buying a new monitor you could just buy a new card. The bottomline is that they're not sharing anything.

[afa7336]

If you view Nvidia and AMD as equal, why don't OriginPC? The only way that could have been swayed is by being offered money. Don't you think it is also odd they dropped AMD right after the R9 series launched?

 

It's not just that one battle. Look at this. They're filing charges AGAIN.

 

But most of the work is done and out there. G-Sync isn't even that amazing. It would be good for people with a lower end card but if you're buying a new monitor you could just buy a new card. The bottomline is that they're not sharing anything.

 

Because I am not running a company that sells both. I know they stated publicly they had issues, and maybe they were trying their darnest to work with AMD up to and after the R9 launch to see if things changed. They didn't, apparently. One of the complaints that Origin had was that they were running hot. Hmmm, sound familiar to you? The problem is, you have to step back as a user and get into the mind of someone running a company. If you had complaints that went unaddressed, or weren't fixed, or weren't listened to, or you had a product not selling as well... do you keep it around to be fair and take your losses no matter the cost or do you get rid of it? I'll give you a real world example. You own a car dealership and you sell two car makers. Porsche and Kia. Your sales break out to 98% Kia and only 2% Porsche yearly. Do you keep Porsche on your lot for just 2%? Or do you think about cutting your losses and devoting more time to selling Kia which in the long run you make more money on?

 

Thats what I was referring to. Like I said, I am on the fence. Morally, its kinda a low blow. BUT, business wise it makes perfect sense to me. You see, I actually own a company (don't worry, its way out of the tech field thankfully), and they are 100% within their right to do this. They won for crying out loud.

 

 

You're stuck in the rut that a lot of people seem to get in. They are thinking with the brain that people are all the same like them. Not everyone buys a new Monitor and has the knowhow to install a graphics card. I wouldn't trust my sister to be able to install one for instance. But she does like to game. It was a very smart move to invest in G-Sync both for Asus and Nvidia. You see, G-Sync while offering us enthusiasts something neat and cool, also made it so that the end user that is buying prebuilt will have an awesome experience as well. (I am sure you are aware a crap ton more buy prebuilt then actually make their system). Out of all those prebuilt systems most will never be upgraded internally. Though they might get a new monitor from time to time. Or now find an option for this cool thing called G-Sync that stabilizes frames.

 

But you see, its not just for lower end GPUs. Why people keep thinking this, I will have no earthly idea. You know you get a stutter/tearing when you drop from 120 down to 110 hertz for a fraction of a second? Any jump in frames does this actually. This gets away with this tearing/stuttering and helps smooth out the gameplay. While it does have the benefit of helping lower end GPUs, it isn't its only intended use. By allowing the GPU to dictate the speed of the monitor we as consumers will get better and smoother gameplay. Getting high FPS is all and good, but its also the experience you have while getting that uber high fps.

[R4STABAN]

Not too bothered about this.

The gameworks library is the intellectual property of nvidia. This *is* competition.

[kuddlesworth9419]

Let me guess, there's an nV card or two in your system, right? I have nV cards too, but it's BS like this that really ruins it for the PC gaming platform. People forget that IF it weren't for AMD's release of the R9 series of cards, in particular, the higher end ones, nV fanboys would still be paying 650USD for a GTX780.....or have they already forgotten about that? I love competition, but make it fair, arm twisting a game devs to favor you isn't fair.....but I'm sure nV fanboys would have a different take on that. :rolleyes:

 

I do have an Nvidia card and yea I like Nvidia but to be honest company's don't have to use this library like most devs don't use PhysX unless they really need to. And how would this ruin the PC gaming platform, PC gaming is varied and this will just rary it up even more now won't it.

[matin94]

fucking cock sucking dick fucking dicks.

motherfuckas, seriously. why cant people get along with AMD?

why cant WE, the Consumers, enjoy things equally, after all without us none of these companies would exist.

 

Guess im asking to live in a perfect world  :'(