Should I go custom water-cooled for my next build? And if so, need some advice

[asim1999]

I’m planning to do my next build in a couple of years. By then my rig will be 6 years old and I will have completed a paid placement year during my third year at uni which means I can get upwards of £15K on a good placement.

thats why i was thinking of going all out on my next build as I might not get another chance to do this. 

Since my build is going to be used at uni halls for my final year, shall I go custom watercooled or use separate AIOs for the CPU and GPUs?

If so i have a few questions

1) if I go custom, should I build the system at uni or build it from home and take to uni?

2) what will be the best way to setup the loop so I can drain and refill easily/

3) how long will my rig last until I need to drain it and what coolant should i use?

4) should I get a pre made CPU and mobo monoblock combo and 2 pre made graphics cards with GPU blocks installed from OCUK? It will cost me around £150 in total more if I do this as opposed to gettting the parts, removing the motherboard and graphics card hearsinks and thermal pads and installing the cooler myself

 

Thanks

 

 

[Neftex]

my question is, why do you want watercooling?

[CyberFern0]

25 minutes ago, asim1999 said:

I’m planning to do my next build in a couple of years. By then my rig will be 6 years old and I will have completed a paid placement year during my third year at uni which means I can get upwards of £15K on a good placement.

thats why i was thinking of going all out on my next build as I might not get another chance to do this. 

Since my build is going to be used at uni halls for my final year, shall I go custom watercooled or use separate AIOs for the CPU and GPUs?

If so i have a few questions

1) if I go custom, should I build the system at uni or build it from home and take to uni?

2) what will be the best way to setup the loop so I can drain and refill easily/

3) how long will my rig last until I need to drain it and what coolant should i use?

4) should I get a pre made CPU and mobo monoblock combo and 2 pre made graphics cards with GPU blocks installed from OCUK? It will cost me around £150 in total more if I do this as opposed to gettting the parts, removing the motherboard and graphics card hearsinks and thermal pads and installing the cooler myself

 

Thanks

 

 

Uses?

 

Resolution?

 

Refresh rate?

[asim1999]

3 hours ago, Neftex said:

my question is, why do you want watercooling?

Not just for looks, but because I want silence and a high overclock on everything. I am a computer science student and so I will be using my rig all day to do my final year project and other work

and also because I might not get another chance to do this.

 

3 hours ago, CyberFern0 said:

Uses?

 

Resolution?

 

Refresh rate?

Heavy productivity and some heavy gaming.

i currently have a 240Hz monitor so will probably use that

this rig will be built in 2 years and I was just had some questions about general custom water cooling 

[CyberFern0]

2 hours ago, asim1999 said:

Heavy productivity and some heavy gaming.

i currently have a 240Hz monitor so will probably use that

this rig will be built in 2 years and I was just had some questions about general custom water cooling 

Oh ok. We’ll see what options will be there  then. ?

[Lathlaer]

6 hours ago, asim1999 said:

1) if I go custom, should I build the system at uni or build it from home and take to uni?

Wherever you have more space and are able to leave the unfinished system for a few days if need be. LC can be messy with all the parts around, screws, blocks etc. - also depending on the complexity of the build you might not be able to finish it at one go and there is nothing worse than sitting at 11 pm with the feeling that it needs to be finished today but there is still lots to do.

 

If you do custom with soft tubes and use good fittings, the risk of leak during transport is minimal and the trip itself might help you get rid of some air pockets

[MaratM]

The only advice: think twice before getting the case for your build. More silence you want more rads you have to use, so the fans can run at 700-800 rpm and being unaudible.

[asim1999]

48 minutes ago, MaratM said:

The only advice: think twice before getting the case for your build. More silence you want more rads you have to use, so the fans can run at 700-800 rpm and being unaudible.

I was thinking of using a Corsair 1000D with 2 480mm at the front, 1 420mm st the top and 2 140mm fans at the rear for exhaust 

[orbitalbuzzsaw]

I would not. Just get a hybrid-cooled GPU and an AIO. Same performance, less work.

[For Science!]

16 hours ago, asim1999 said:

-

1) It doesn't matter

2) Have a reservoir and have a drain valve in the the lowest point of the loop

3) Depends on the coolant, but generally you want to maintain your loop about once a year to be on the safe side

4) Depends on you and your budget, I find part of the fun doing the DIY part too.

 

Going overkill with dual GPU, MASSIVE case is one strategy, but will be inconvinient if you have to move between dorm rooms, private acccomodation etc. Multi-GPU support in games is getting worse by the day, and so unless you have a particular workload that can leverage multi-GPUs then I wouldn't bother.

 

I would like to promote the elegance of getting a powerful CPU and GPU with a custom loop in a small case like the NCase M1 (See my build log). This is a fairly portable system that is also not obnoxious and can sit quietly on a desk without breaking it. 

[johnukguy]

Water cooling is generally not needed with most systems. Unless you intend to go for something like an 8700K. It's often a waste of money, as you can cool with a good air cooler just as well, just as quietly in most cases and for a lot cheaper. 

[AngryBeaver]

On 3/31/2018 at 10:41 AM, orbitalbuzzsaw said:

I would not. Just get a hybrid-cooled GPU and an AIO. Same performance, less work.

definitely not the same performance.

 

A CLC AIO will normally have a deltaT or 10-15c when running at recommended TDP. A hybrid GPU will be very similar to the CLC mentioned previously. You also have less control over fan speed as you are more limited in options. The components have a pretty firm expiration date due to coolant evaporating from the loops.

 

In a custom loop you can make a larger system with more rad space and much slower fans if you want a quiet build. You can add high performance fans and lots of rad space if you want to get your DeltaT way down to like 3c or so. That being said the average custom loop will have a deltaT from 5-8c. So your idle and load temps will be noticeably cooler than an AIO CLC. The waterblocks will be of higher quality so they alone will shave off a few Celsius. Then you will have a pump that can push more than 1gpm, which is about the optimum flow level. AIO's have weak pumps for the most part so a custom loop could gain another 3-4c here.

 

So when you add it all up not even accounting for rad sizes... You would gain on average 7c from deltaT differences, another 3-4c for better waterblocks, and another 3-4 for flow rate gains.  So you are looking at a 15C difference on your components verse a decent custom loop.  Those 15c are easily the difference between a stable or unstable overclock at a given level. They are also the difference between a daily drive clock or one you are only comfortable with the temps for when doing benchmarking.

 

 

[AngryBeaver]

On 3/31/2018 at 1:02 PM, johnukguy said:

Water cooling is generally not needed with most systems. Unless you intend to go for something like an 8700K. It's often a waste of money, as you can cool with a good air cooler just as well, just as quietly in most cases and for a lot cheaper. 

This is also false information. A good air cooler can perform similar to a CLC AIO, but it does not perform similar to a custom loop. It is however, much cheaper which is true. That being said even the best air coolers are only on par with a rad up to about a 240mm and even then most of the AIO's perform a few C better. They are just close enough that the price and simplicity is a bigger factor.

 

Now when you move to custom watercooling you change things drastically as a proper loop can move much more heat, more quietly, and efficiently.  You can direct the heat better and you can also insure that you are getting good fresh ambient air across your radiators. You cannot do this with an air cooler unless you are running an open air case, then you are faced with it being a big eyesore. 

[MaratM]

When building a custom loop just keep an eye on your finance, things can get very expensive if you go step by step. Plan it well, make a simple sketchup model and follow the plan

[AngryBeaver]

Like MaratM said. It can get expensive. IMO pay attention to the types and numbers of fittings you need. I just recently made a trip to microcenter to grab some I needed that day for a build... paying 10+ bucks per compression fitting when you need like 8-12 is pretty darn painful. They can easily add up to be more than some of your other big objects like pump/res combo's.

[johnukguy]

12 hours ago, AngryBeaver said:

This is also false information. A good air cooler can perform similar to a CLC AIO, but it does not perform similar to a custom loop. It is however, much cheaper which is true. That being said even the best air coolers are only on par with a rad up to about a 240mm and even then most of the AIO's perform a few C better. They are just close enough that the price and simplicity is a bigger factor.

 

Now when you move to custom watercooling you change things drastically as a proper loop can move much more heat, more quietly, and efficiently.  You can direct the heat better and you can also insure that you are getting good fresh ambient air across your radiators. You cannot do this with an air cooler unless you are running an open air case, then you are faced with it being a big eyesore. 

Something like a Noctua NH-D15 will contend with just about any water cooled setup, AIO or otherwise. The idea that a custom loop has some sort of magical property that makes it better than anything else is simply a myth. That's not to say that they don't perform well, some do, especially with larger radiators, as you mentioned, but they are, at best, often only a few degrees cooler than a top end air cooler and you run the risk of leaks taking out the entire system, something that just doesn't happen with air cooling. So ultimately it's down to aesthetics and personal preference, rather than water cooling being objectively better in all cases:

http://www.relaxedtech.com/reviews/noctua/nh-d15-versus-closed-loop-liquid-coolers/1

 

 

[AngryBeaver]

12 hours ago, johnukguy said:

Something like a Noctua NH-D15 will contend with just about any water cooled setup, AIO or otherwise. The idea that a custom loop has some sort of magical property that makes it better than anything else is simply a myth. That's not to say that they don't perform well, some do, especially with larger radiators, as you mentioned, but they are, at best, often only a few degrees cooler than a top end air cooler and you run the risk of leaks taking out the entire system, something that just doesn't happen with air cooling. So ultimately it's down to aesthetics and personal preference, rather than water cooling being objectively better in all cases:

http://www.relaxedtech.com/reviews/noctua/nh-d15-versus-closed-loop-liquid-coolers/1

 

 

This is from 
http://forum.computerlounge.co.nz/posts/t8292--Noctua-NH-D15--vs--Corsair-H100i--vs--EKWB-Custom-Loop

if you want the source.

 

 

That being said the "custom loop" they used is a prebuilt one that just consists of a good pump, waterblock, and radiator.

EKWB Custom Loop:

• EKWB EK-Supremacy Evo Acetal+Nickel CPU Block

• EKWB EK-DDC 3.2 PWM X-RES 140 Reservoir/Pump Combo

• EKWB CoolstreamXTX 240 Radiator

• 4 x Noctua NF-F12 PWM 120mm 1500RPM Focused Flow Fans

So it is by no means a big custom loop or a super good one, just a basic loop comparable to the AIO in the comparison but using good components.

[johnukguy]

15 hours ago, AngryBeaver said:

This is from 
http://forum.computerlounge.co.nz/posts/t8292--Noctua-NH-D15--vs--Corsair-H100i--vs--EKWB-Custom-Loop

if you want the source.

 

 

That being said the "custom loop" they used is a prebuilt one that just consists of a good pump, waterblock, and radiator.

EKWB Custom Loop:

• EKWB EK-Supremacy Evo Acetal+Nickel CPU Block

• EKWB EK-DDC 3.2 PWM X-RES 140 Reservoir/Pump Combo

• EKWB CoolstreamXTX 240 Radiator

• 4 x Noctua NF-F12 PWM 120mm 1500RPM Focused Flow Fans

So it is by no means a big custom loop or a super good one, just a basic loop comparable to the AIO in the comparison but using good components.

Which doesn't change the fact that water cooling is not significantly better than air cooling, often costs more and has significant risks that air cooling just doesn't. Ultimately it's not really about performance but about what's fashionable and aesthetic, which are fine as reasons to do something but anyone building a system shouldn't be misled into believing that water cooling is somehow magically better than air cooling when, factually, it just isn't.

[AngryBeaver]

7 hours ago, johnukguy said:

Which doesn't change the fact that water cooling is not significantly better than air cooling, often costs more and has significant risks that air cooling just doesn't. Ultimately it's not really about performance but about what's fashionable and aesthetic, which are fine as reasons to do something but anyone building a system shouldn't be misled into believing that water cooling is somehow magically better than air cooling when, factually, it just isn't.

So you say it factually isn't better, yet you quoted a test that provides facts.

 

Water cooling IS better when it comes down to it. This is why custom water is often used and/or required for really aggressive overclocks. It does have aesthetic value as well, but that is all going to be based on people's opinion.

 

The facts are that custom water can dissipate MORE heat than air cooling solutions and it can also do it more quietly if you set it up that way. To be comparable with air cooling you would need a heatsink that would not fit inside your case, which is why air cooling does not compete.

[johnukguy]

1 hour ago, AngryBeaver said:

So you say it factually isn't better, yet you quoted a test that provides facts.

 

Water cooling IS better when it comes down to it. This is why custom water is often used and/or required for really aggressive overclocks. It does have aesthetic value as well, but that is all going to be based on people's opinion.

 

The facts are that custom water can dissipate MORE heat than air cooling solutions and it can also do it more quietly if you set it up that way. To be comparable with air cooling you would need a heatsink that would not fit inside your case, which is why air cooling does not compete.

The facts are that water cooling is no more effective generally than top end air cooling. A Noctua NH-D15, as given in the example, will beat many water cooling systems. So no, it's not always better and when it is, it's by only a handful of degrees at most. So in actuality water cooling is chosen not because it's inherently better, which it isn't, but because people follow trends, they follow what they believe to be most fashionable and what looks good, or they're misinformed and really do think that water cooling is somehow inherently or always better, which is just not true of course.

If the concern were really performance per dollar, air cooling would be chosen. If it really is for that tiny difference of a few degrees, and the person doesn't care about money, or just doesn't know any better, then they may choose water cooling. Arguing that air cooling doesn't compete, when it has been proven to do just that, over and over again is simply ridiculous. Some air coolers it is true won't beat some water coolers, just as some water cooling systems won't beat some air cooling systems, but to ignore reality in favour of what's trendy, or believed in spite of proven facts, and pretend that water cooling is always better and carries no risk (which it does of course), is simply laughable.

[AngryBeaver]

2 minutes ago, johnukguy said:

The facts are that water cooling is no more effective generally than top end air cooling. A Noctua NH-D15, as given in the example, will beat many water cooling systems. So no, it's not always better and when it is, it's by only a handful of degrees at most. So in actuality water cooling is chosen not because it's inherently better, which it isn't, but because people follow trends, they follow what they believe to be most fashionable and what looks good, or they're misinformed and really do think that water cooling is somehow inherently or always better, which is just not true of course.

If the concern were really performance per dollar, air cooling would be chosen. If it really is for that tiny difference of a few degrees, and the person doesn't care about money, or just doesn't know any better, then they may choose water cooling. Arguing that air cooling doesn't compete, when it has been proven to do just that, over and over again is simply ridiculous. Some air coolers it is true won't beat some water coolers, just as some water cooling systems won't beat some air cooling systems, but to ignore reality in favour of what's trendy, or believed in spite of proven facts, and pretend that water cooling is always better and carries no risk (which it does of course), is simply laughable.

The risk of water are minimal if you follow proper precautions.

 

Also in the comparisons like above the do tend to be flawed in favor of air. They are running on open test benches which give the cooler constant access to fresh ambient air, something they will not have in a case compared to water. Next they aren't putting a high load on these items, which again is where water excels. It can handle much higher TDP.

 

So in the test above if they were to raid the TDP of the CPU by say 30-50 watts... then the air cooler would start to buckle and temps would start to rapidly climb. However, the water cooler would like stay the same or in worst case scenario see a 1-2 c Increase in temps.