Dual loop, shared rads

[L00bs4n00bs]

I've had an idea for combining the advantages of both single and dual loops

 

Shared rads for better cooling with zero flow restrictions and extra flow pressure using parallel pumps 

 

I'm not claiming to have with invented this but ive been looking and personally I have not seen it before

 

I'd love some community opinion or thoughts cos I think I'm gunna bang it in my planned desk build

[FloRolf]

The advantage of a real dual loop is the seperated heat output though. With this you could also just out two pumps in serial and have the same effect. Done quite a few times.

 

 

EDIT:
also a rad with two inputs and two outputs?!

[L00bs4n00bs]

3 minutes ago, FloRolf said:

The advantage of a real dual loop is the seperated heat output though. With this you could also just out two pumps in serial and have the same effect. Done quite a few times.

 

 

EDIT:
also a rad with two inputs and two outputs?!

Ill be using big rads lol like the thick alphas ill attach an image 

 

Idea off parallel pumps is to have dual pipe all the way through, keeping twice the flow area cross section over serial pumps

[meenmeen1103]

The tubing isn't the flow restriction in the loops though, it's by far the microfins in the cold plates and also the radiators, so adding another pathway by using parallel tubing won't overcome that. If anything, the added tubing will only serve as expanding the overall liquid capacity which MAY help, but that effect can easily be achieved by using a larger reservoir.

[L00bs4n00bs]

10 minutes ago, meenmeen1103 said:

The tubing isn't the flow restriction in the loops though, it's by far the microfins in the cold plates and also the radiators, so adding another pathway by using parallel tubing won't overcome that. If anything, the added tubing will only serve as expanding the overall liquid capacity which MAY help, but that effect can easily be achieved by using a larger reservoir.

Again I understand your points but by using double thick radiators, parallel pipework and parallel pumps alongside separately fed GPU and CPU blocks I am doubling the entire cross section of the loop and with the parallel pumps keeping flow the same rate as a single loop yet avoiding the disadvantage of a dual loop by giving all of the fluid all of the cooling potential of all of the radiators

[meenmeen1103]

29 minutes ago, L00bs4n00bs said:

Again I understand your points but by using double thick radiators, parallel pipework and parallel pumps alongside separately fed GPU and CPU blocks I am doubling the entire cross section of the loop and with the parallel pumps keeping flow the same rate as a single loop yet avoiding the disadvantage of a dual loop by giving all of the fluid all of the cooling potential of all of the radiators

You aren't really adding anything to overcome the main restrictive points (CPU/GPU blocks and rads) than if you ran all those parts without the parallel tubing though, given that you plumb both pumps in series (be it consecutively or midway through loop [like pump>cpu>rad>pump>gpu>rad for example]). In any scenario that uses all of the main components you still have the same amount of heat generated and useful cross sectional area for heat dissipation (rad surface area) so I just don't see how this scenario would be an improvement really other than overall increased liquid capacity. The only way to really know would be to plumb the loop how you originally planned and then do so again without the parallel tubing but using all the other same components and keeping the same total liquid capacity by extending the reservoir capacity to match (though that last bit may only affect the heat saturation point).

[Mick Naughty]

Isn’t a dual loop if you share a component. 

[MandicReally]

You say "the advantages of both single and dual loops" but I have to ask, what do you think is the advantage of a single loop?  The only advantage I can see is simplicity, and your design throws simplicity out the window. 

Use the same radiators, split into two completely separate loops and you will be both simpler and better overall.  A good quality pump running through just a GPU or just a CPU will flow through those big radiators just fine.  As long as you aren't making it pump the ceiling or something like that. 

[L00bs4n00bs]

2 hours ago, MandicReally said:

You say "the advantages of both single and dual loops" but I have to ask, what do you think is the advantage of a single loop?  The only advantage I can see is simplicity, and your design throws simplicity out the window. 

Use the same radiators, split into two completely separate loops and you will be both simpler and better overall.  A good quality pump running through just a GPU or just a CPU will flow through those big radiators just fine.  As long as you aren't making it pump the ceiling or something like that. 

The disadvantage to 2 separate loops is each component can only ever use the cooling of one radiator so half the effective cooling of the whole system, if you cpu is under heavy load and the gpu is not the cup will have the cooling of both radiators, there is only 2 more pipes than dual loops

 

6 hours ago, meenmeen1103 said:

You aren't really adding anything to overcome the main restrictive points (CPU/GPU blocks and rads) than if you ran all those parts without the parallel tubing though, given that you plumb both pumps in series (be it consecutively or midway through loop [like pump>cpu>rad>pump>gpu>rad for example]). In any scenario that uses all of the main components you still have the same amount of heat generated and useful cross sectional area for heat dissipation (rad surface area) so I just don't see how this scenario would be an improvement really other than overall increased liquid capacity. The only way to really know would be to plumb the loop how you originally planned and then do so again without the parallel tubing but using all the other same components and keeping the same total liquid capacity by extending the reservoir capacity to match (though that last bit may only affect the heat saturation point).

The whole idea of parallel blocks is to effectively half the resistance the same is true with double thick rads but I think you are correct that pump>cpu>rad>pump>gpu>rad would be the same I'm gunna have a think about it, I spoke to an engineer friend of mine earlier and I'll have a sit down and go through the ideas see if he has any thoughts, 

 

Either way I'm buying 2 rads 2 res 2 blocks so just figuring out the best way to plumb them

[MandicReally]

Ok that is fair.  However most CPUs really probably won't need that load.

You also have the factor that the way you have it plumbed (in your diagram) means that coolant will only be passing through the radiators once each (single pass).  Effectively being the same as a single radiator where coolant flows in and then back through the same radiator (double pass).  So you will have basically the same amount of time in rad for the coolant with maybe slightly better flow since the coolant isn't turning and coming back through the same radiator.  So you run into the "more time in the radiator" factor that is debatable as to how it effects cooling on a PC. 

I mean, give it a go, you seem pretty set on the idea.  Whats the worst case? It doesn't cool like you expect and you go to two separate loops anyway?

[andrewmp6]

All i can add is doing it like that will take a lot longer for the temperatures to equalize,And you'll need a lot more coolant.To me watercooling should follow the K.i.s.s rule,Keep it simple stupid.The less is more rule also.The shorter the runs and less fittings/bends the better the loop will flow.

[L00bs4n00bs]

1 hour ago, andrewmp6 said:

All i can add is doing it like that will take a lot longer for the temperatures to equalize,And you'll need a lot more coolant.To me watercooling should follow the K.i.s.s rule,Keep it simple stupid.The less is more rule also.The shorter the runs and less fittings/bends the better the loop will flow.

I imagined that as both sides would have about equal flow that the water mixing through the radiators would equalise the temperature pretty instantly also the only extra parts to this loop are two pipes between the radiators, even though I would like to get the best performance from my setup I am only really doing this for aesthetics I think my plan is really cool and I will post about it when it happens and as it's in a desk I want the loop very much on show. thank you for your advice

[L00bs4n00bs]

1 hour ago, MandicReally said:

Ok that is fair.  However most CPUs really probably won't need that load.

You also have the factor that the way you have it plumbed (in your diagram) means that coolant will only be passing through the radiators once each (single pass).  Effectively being the same as a single radiator where coolant flows in and then back through the same radiator (double pass).  So you will have basically the same amount of time in rad for the coolant with maybe slightly better flow since the coolant isn't turning and coming back through the same radiator.  So you run into the "more time in the radiator" factor that is debatable as to how it effects cooling on a PC. 

I mean, give it a go, you seem pretty set on the idea.  Whats the worst case? It doesn't cool like you expect and you go to two separate loops anyway?

I did mean for them radiators to be used as double pass as I would quite like to use the alphacool monsters I had just drawn it in the diagram to keep the layout simple I've just put in an 8700k I would like to delid and see how high I can go as I hit 95 at 5 gigahertz after talking to my engineer friend I think I may look into higher flow rate pumps and run through the numbers with him properly as he has suggested single pump but parallel blocks, I've not done a custom loop before but I am a heating engineer by trade so pumps radiators and pipes is all I do everyday I'm excited too make my plan proper and get into this see how much more money I can waste lol

[MandicReally]

Oh waste money you can.  Ha.   You could go old school and use something like a 110v pump.  Say an old Danner Mag 2 or something.  I started watercooling back in the early 2000s and that is all we used. 

http://procooling.com/index.php?func=articles&disp=38

 

[andrewmp6]

8 hours ago, L00bs4n00bs said:

I imagined that as both sides would have about equal flow that the water mixing through the radiators would equalise the temperature pretty instantly also the only extra parts to this loop are two pipes between the radiators, even though I would like to get the best performance from my setup I am only really doing this for aesthetics I think my plan is really cool and I will post about it when it happens and as it's in a desk I want the loop very much on show. thank you for your advice

Since you care mostly about looks,Why not run a dual pump kit like http://www.performance-pcs.com/ppc-s-dual-uber-d5-fully-modded-d5-water-pump-single-loop-matte-black.html

And use a custom res like https://www.ebay.com/itm/Acrylic-Reservoir-Water-Tank-360mm-with-4-G1-4-for-multiple-inlet-outlet-options/222882881088?hash=item33e4dade40:m:msfwZgZht4wBp4t7OPTlzhQ

Or 2 stand alone pumps and a single res like this https://www.ebay.com/itm/Acrylic-liquid-cooling-water-tank-Reservoir-only-with-6-G1-4-240mm-size/222777418473?hash=item33de91a2e9:m:mTMWS7M6bc5PgPPLPIlBQHQ

If you like his stuff he does all kinds of custom res and res/pump combos,Search his name on youtube you'll find his custom stuff.

[W-L]

17 hours ago, L00bs4n00bs said:

I've had an idea for combining the advantages of both single and dual loops

Shared rads for better cooling with zero flow restrictions and extra flow pressure using parallel pumps 

I'm not claiming to have with invented this but ive been looking and personally I have not seen it before

I'd love some community opinion or thoughts cos I think I'm gunna bang it in my planned desk build

Paralleling rads and pumps are good for high or variable flow applications but in terms of a watercooling loop you wouldn't see much marginal gain from it since the main goal is pressure to overcome restrictions within blocks. The rate of flow at which even a single pump for a whole series loop is more than substantial as the fluid moves so fast around the loop, your moving the whole fluid within the loop around at least a half dozen times a min. 

 

For this I don't see any issues other than ensure restriction between both blocks are similar to have even flow between the two. Also it's better in general terms of use longer thinner rads than thicker ones for more cooling potential. 

[This kid builds pc]

It'll look cool and you'll have good flow/performance, but it isn't a dual loop. It's two pumps ran in parallel with some cool tubing.