Best Buy's GeekSquad Employees paid by FBI as Informants

[leadeater]

1 hour ago, LAwLz said:

You know, all the time stamps created by a computer are not created by magic. They are either created based on the OS clock, or the BIOS clock, both which are easy to just change to the day before. And like I said earlier, you can just wipe the BIOS once you're done.

Or just get a file system editor program and just change what ever you like for a file's meta data, literally anything can be changed and in the context of being in a booted USB drive OS file system auditing isn't going to see that at all.

 

I use those tools to change file creation age and last access time so I can test archiving software, waiting a few years or finding old files to test the process is just silly when those tools exist.

[LAwLz]

1 hour ago, leadeater said:

Or just get a file system editor program and just change what ever you like for a file's meta data, literally anything can be changed and in the context of being in a booted USB drive OS file system auditing isn't going to see that at all.

 

I use those tools to change file creation age and last access time so I can test archiving software, waiting a few years or finding old files to test the process is just silly when those tools exist.

Yeah that too. The reason why I mentioned the BIOS and OS clock was to preemptively shoot down any kind of "there is a secret time-stamp that I can't tell you about" type of response (the type Patrick used to like).

[Selah]

On 3/7/2018 at 4:36 PM, AngryBeaver said:

Even if you changed the date/time and had no connection it is STILL possible to easily discover that.

 

On top of that we are talking about taking steps that NO employee is going to have the time or ability to do in such a public setting on the job. So now we are getting outside the realm of what is realistically possible in that scenario. So yes, they could technically attempt to tamper with data to plant data, but it would be detectable that these type of activities took place and it would not be something they could realistically pull off while at work in a public setting.

 

Also if they messed with anything while the users machine is on there will be a record of it in the ntuser file. If they hook the drive up to another machine to tamper with it... then there will be markers from the machine used for the tampering.  These are only a few easy ways to discover the tampering and there ARE others.

Shhhhh, logic is bad.

 

Because dealing with 10+ computers at once while simultaneously having other tasks to perform and diagnostics for abstract problems leaves enough time for someone to do a 7+ step process to plant CP well hidden enough so it looks legitimate.

 

Bear in mind everyone that works in geeksquad has no moral compass and will come after you because you resist the deep state of evil oligarchy that wish to enslave well minded thinking people such as us tech junkies. Your security isn't safe and you need to encrypt your computer to keep it from having shady people plant evidence on your squeaky clean morality of justice which is why we should all use 8 vpn's and boot off a usb os in order to keep from being impugned for our 100% legal actions.

 

oh wait.....

20 hours ago, LAwLz said:

As I wrote last year when this was reported, I think this is terrible practice that should stop.

 

 

Loli porn isn't illegal stop worrying about it.

 

[LAwLz]

52 minutes ago, Selah said:

Because dealing with 10+ computers at once while simultaneously having other tasks to perform and diagnostics for abstract problems leaves enough time for someone to do a 7+ step process to plant CP well hidden enough so it looks legitimate.

7+ step process? You can do it in 1 step with a script.

But I think you're forgetting that I was just responding to AngryBeaver which said he knows how to circumvent any changes and figure out exactly when a file was created or modified. I was just calling him out on his bullshit.

 

54 minutes ago, Selah said:

Loli porn isn't illegal stop worrying about it.

Where I live it's a gray zone based on how like or unlike they are to real children. In several US states it is flat out illegal no matter what. Same in some other countries like Australia (where even adult actresses gets classified as child porn if they appear to be under 18).

[AngryBeaver]

6 hours ago, LAwLz said:

7+ step process? You can do it in 1 step with a script.

But I think you're forgetting that I was just responding to AngryBeaver which said he knows how to circumvent any changes and figure out exactly when a file was created or modified. I was just calling him out on his bullshit.

 

Where I live it's a gray zone based on how like or unlike they are to real children. In several US states it is flat out illegal no matter what. Same in some other countries like Australia (where even adult actresses gets classified as child porn if they appear to be under 18).

Sorry I got busy yesterday and did not have a chance to respond. I don't want to keep going back and forth on this as it is pointless.

 

The truth is you CAN determine when files are added/removed even in the scenarios you provided. It isn't as simple, but any forensic examiner worth his salt will see it. All they need to do is prove it was tampered with and all of a sudden it becomes inadmissible. Now if they choose to dig deeper is up to them.

 

Also anytime you move/delete/add something to a drive.. it not only stores the data, but also has to index this information on the drive so that it can be located. That index does use a time stamp, but also contains another stamp that represents the operational time of the device in seconds.... this isn't accurate for pinpointed the specific time something happens for example, because this timer basically only runs when the drive is on (your pc is running).. it can be used to check if information correlates though.

 

Anyways it COULD be possible that someone gets busted for some fake planted files, but this would be an absurdly rare (to the point of not practical) of happening. I think this conspiracy theory of yours is too far fetched to be based in reality.

[LAwLz]

6 minutes ago, AngryBeaver said:

The truth is you CAN determine when files are added/removed even in the scenarios you provided. It isn't as simple, but any forensic examiner worth his salt will see it. All they need to do is prove it was tampered with and all of a sudden it becomes inadmissible. Now if they choose to dig deeper is up to them.

How?

 

6 minutes ago, AngryBeaver said:

Also anytime you move/delete/add something to a drive.. it not only stores the data, but also has to index this information on the drive so that it can be located. That index does use a time stamp, but also contains another stamp that represents the operational time of the device in seconds.... this isn't accurate for pinpointed the specific time something happens for example, because this timer basically only runs when the drive is on (your pc is running).. it can be used to check if information correlates though.

You mean comparing the $STANDARD_INFORMATION and $FILE_NAME attributes?

Writing a modified MFT directly to disk, bypassing the OS and file system operations would be one way around that. I am fairly sure that's what setMACE does.

 

41 minutes ago, AngryBeaver said:

Anyways it COULD be possible that someone gets busted for some fake planted files, but this would be an absurdly rare (to the point of not practical) of happening. I think this conspiracy theory of yours is too far fetched to be based in reality.

What conspiracy theory? I have never said it is happening. What I am saying is that it is a possibility.

I also think it is terrible that this whole "FBI training GeekSquad" thing is happening because it is clearly a loophole to avoid needing to get the warrants the law requires them to have to carry out such an operation themselves.

[AngryBeaver]

30 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

How?

 

You mean comparing the $STANDARD_INFORMATION and $FILE_NAME attributes?

Writing a modified MFT directly to disk, bypassing the OS and file system operations would be one way around that. I am fairly sure that's what setMACE does.

 

What conspiracy theory? I have never said it is happening. What I am saying is that it is a possibility.

I also think it is terrible that this whole "FBI training GeekSquad" thing is happening because it is clearly a loophole to avoid needing to get the warrants the law requires them to have to carry out such an operation themselves.

In less than a year there has been less than 10 cases that were turned over to the FBI. So they are not actively digging for this information, but if they do find it they are required to turn it in.

 

Honestly, I would be more than happy to let them scrub my PC in the event they take more people doing some of these illegal activities off the streets.

 

Also when you drop your PC off with them, you sign a waiver saying you understand and agree to them seeing some of your personal information.

[LAwLz]

6 hours ago, AngryBeaver said:

In less than a year there has been less than 10 cases that were turned over to the FBI. So they are not actively digging for this information, but if they do find it they are required to turn it in.

Wait a minute, what are you talking about? Here are some facts:

1) Geek Squad themselves have said that they find child porn nearly 100 times A YEAR. That is quite a lot more than the 10 cases you're referring to (and where did you get that number from?)

2) Geek Squad and the FBI have a close relationship, going as far as the FBI training Geek Squad employees how to use tools for scanning hard drives, including unallocated spaces, for incriminating files.

3) Geek Squad employees gets paid by the FBI when they find child porn on client computers.

4) FBI themselves can not do this type of scan because it requires a warrant, which they do not have. They circumvent the warrant requirement by using Geek Squad as a proxy.

 

6 hours ago, AngryBeaver said:

Honestly, I would be more than happy to let them scrub my PC in the event they take more people doing some of these illegal activities off the streets.

I strongly disagree. I think treating everyone as criminals, just to find (according to you) 10 people is completely unjustified. I also despise this practice because it is specifically designed to work around the need for a warrant. It's can not be described as anything but a loop-hole that the FBI is exploiting.

 

Let's go by your numbers shall we? This FBIxGS love story has been going on for about 10 years.

Geek Squad has over 20,000 employees.

Let's use fairly conservative numbers and assume that 50% of those are actual technicians, the rest being sales people and various types of management. Let's once again be very conservative and assume each technician handles one case a day. That's 10,000 cases a day, 260 days a year (holidays and weekends not counted).

That's a total of 2,600,000 customers a year, multiplied by 10 and we get 26,000,000 clients.

 

What you're saying is that you think it is completely justified to look through the personal files of 26 million people, basically treating them as criminals and doing things which usually require search warrants for, in order to potentially catch 10 people.

10 people out of 26 million, is 0.00004%.

I would not even agree with treating 99% of people as criminals to catch the 1% that are.

 

6 hours ago, AngryBeaver said:

Also when you drop your PC off with them, you sign a waiver saying you understand and agree to them seeing some of your personal information.

There is a very big difference between them maybe seeing some personal stuff (which is what people expect), and Geek Squad being used as a proxy to do warrant-less investigations for the FBI, on things such as deleted files. People don't expect Geek Squad to scan unallocated space on their computers.

"Oh, I better delete these nudes pictures I got of myself before handing the computer over to Geek Squad".

10 minutes later and they got some horny teen at Best Buy jerking off to them because they restored deleted files in a "brave" attempt to find pedos.

[AngryBeaver]

12 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Wait a minute, what are you talking about? Here are some facts:

1) Geek Squad themselves have said that they find child porn nearly 100 times A YEAR. That is quite a lot more than the 10 cases you're referring to (and where did you get that number from?)

2) Geek Squad and the FBI have a close relationship, going as far as the FBI training Geek Squad employees how to use tools for scanning hard drives, including unallocated spaces, for incriminating files.

3) Geek Squad employees gets paid by the FBI when they find child porn on client computers.

4) FBI themselves can not do this type of scan because it requires a warrant, which they do not have. They circumvent the warrant requirement by using Geek Squad as a proxy.

 

I strongly disagree. I think treating everyone as criminals, just to find (according to you) 10 people is completely unjustified. I also despise this practice because it is specifically designed to work around the need for a warrant. It's can not be described as anything but a loop-hole that the FBI is exploiting.

 

Let's go by your numbers shall we? This FBIxGS love story has been going on for about 10 years.

Geek Squad has over 20,000 employees.

Let's use fairly conservative numbers and assume that 50% of those are actual technicians, the rest being sales people and various types of management. Let's once again be very conservative and assume each technician handles one case a day. That's 10,000 cases a day, 260 days a year (holidays and weekends not counted).

That's a total of 2,600,000 customers a year, multiplied by 10 and we get 26,000,000 clients.

 

What you're saying is that you think it is completely justified to look through the personal files of 26 million people, basically treating them as criminals and doing things which usually require search warrants for, in order to potentially catch 10 people.

10 people out of 26 million, is 0.00004%.

I would not even agree with treating 99% of people as criminals to catch the 1% that are.

 

There is a very big difference between them maybe seeing some personal stuff (which is what people expect), and Geek Squad being used as a proxy to do warrant-less investigations for the FBI, on things such as deleted files. People don't expect Geek Squad to scan unallocated space on their computers.

"Oh, I better delete these nudes pictures I got of myself before handing the computer over to Geek Squad".

10 minutes later and they got some horny teen at Best Buy jerking off to them because they restored deleted files in a "brave" attempt to find pedos.

This witch hunt is getting old. They are well within their right to report this activity. If they find this stuff it SHOULD be reported.

 

This is little different than how phone conversation are monitored for keywords in the hopes of reducing terrorism.

 

If you don't agree with these practices then don't use geeksquad. I also love how you turn this into some conspiracy theory to say this is an attempt for the fbi to avoid the 4th amendment... which also is false. If your isp for example saw this type of activity over your connection they also would be obligated to report it.

 

Stop defending all of these law breaking perverts. Stop inventing false scenarios and trying to draw lines that do not exist.

[LAwLz]

22 minutes ago, AngryBeaver said:

This witch hunt is getting old. They are well within their right to report this activity. If they find this stuff it SHOULD be reported.

I have never said the opposite.

 

22 minutes ago, AngryBeaver said:

This is little different than how phone conversation are monitored for keywords in the hopes of reducing terrorism.

I am against those practices too.

 

22 minutes ago, AngryBeaver said:

If you don't agree with these practices then don't use geeksquad.

I don't, but a lot of people are, and those people deserve protection too.

 

22 minutes ago, AngryBeaver said:

I also love how you turn this into some conspiracy theory to say this is an attempt for the fbi to avoid the 4th amendment... which also is false.

How is that false? Did you even read the articles linked?

 

22 minutes ago, AngryBeaver said:

If your isp for example saw this type of activity over your connection they also would be obligated to report it.

There is a very big difference between accidentally seeing something, and getting monetary incentivized to actively go look for it using advanced tools which government agencies have trained you to use.

Also, both my ISPs I have had have gone so far as to get taken to court because they value their customers' freedoms and privacy. They might be obligated to report it if they find something, but for example Bahnhof will not find anything because they do not log things like traffic data, and even things like who had which IP gets deleted very quickly. I have chosen my ISPs because I trust that they do the right thing to protect me as a consumer. So far they have not let me down. But I digress...

 

22 minutes ago, AngryBeaver said:

Stop defending all of these law breaking perverts. Stop inventing false scenarios and trying to draw lines that do not exist.

I am not defending them. I am defending the 99.99996% who are innocent (according to your own numbers).

[Drak3]

20 minutes ago, AngryBeaver said:

also love how you turn this into some conspiracy theory to say this is an attempt for the fbi to avoid the 4th amendment... which also is false. If your isp for example saw this type of activity over your connection they also would be obligated to report it.

It's not a conspiracy theory when we have proof it, conveniently posted on page one, in the OP. The FBI is circumventing the 4th amendment.

23 minutes ago, AngryBeaver said:

They are well within their right to report this activity. If they find this stuff it SHOULD be reported.

They're within their right to report what they come across during actual troubleahooting. They're well outside their right when they perform deep searches without warrant or concent, and there is no reason to even remotely suspect people of criminal activity.

 

And no, their terms and conditions do not include them performing these deep searches.

[AngryBeaver]

2 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

I have never said the opposite.

 

I am against those practices too.

 

I don't, but a lot of people are, and those people deserve protection too.

 

How is that false? Did you even read the articles linked?

 

There is a very big difference between accidentally seeing something, and getting monetary incentivized to actively go look for it using advanced tools which government agencies have trained you to use.

Also, both my ISPs I have had have gone so far as to get taken to court because they value their customers' freedoms and privacy. They might be obligated to report it if they find something, but for example Bahnhof will not find anything because they do not log things like traffic data, and even things like who had which IP gets deleted very quickly.

 

I am not defending them. I am defending the 99.99996% who are innocent (according to your own numbers).

If you are innocent then this has no effect on you either way.

 

Also geek squad isn't using deep diving forensic software. They are using tools, for fixing common issues, imaging a drive, removing malicious software, and fixing hardware issues. They are not authorized to use stuff like encase, nuix, or software similar to it.

 

They have a very strict approved software list and not adhering to it will cost them their job.

 

Once again they are not being trained on how to look for this stuff. They were trained on how to handle finding that information. They are not going outside of their scope when it comes to fixing the problem at hand to looking for this stuff. So stop spreading fake information and stop taking every article you read as gospel.

[Drak3]

4 minutes ago, AngryBeaver said:

are innocent then this has no effect on you either way.

Upload a perfect copy of every drive in your system, and an .htm of your browser history and bookmarks, then you can say that.

[Sickshooter0]

9 hours ago, AngryBeaver said:

Anyways it COULD be possible that someone gets busted for some fake planted files, but this would be an absurdly rare (to the point of not practical) of happening. I think this conspiracy theory of yours is too far fetched to be based in reality.

So, it would be OK then, even if it is "absurdly rare" for that one-in-a-million person who was the target of the file plant to serve time?

 

This is a slightly different example. Tom Coleman was a Texas cop who arrested 10% of Tulia, Texas' black population on drug counts. Why? Well, Tom could have been a racist but he was certainly motivated by cash. When the FEDS started allowing state and local police to seize personal property of people found guilty of narcotics offenses and sell those assets, old Tom went on a spree of arrests. He was able to get convictions on a majority of his arrests solely on his word as a LEO. Tom's narc task force received tons of money from asset sales and federal grant money.

 

My point is that we all would like to think that these things aren't "humanly" possible; from the short eyes watching CP, to BB geeks planting evidence or LEO's operating outside of the law. However, these people do exist and it is a reality; only a conspiracy until the action occurs.

[Tsuki]

3 hours ago, LAwLz said:

There is a very big difference between accidentally seeing something, and getting monetary incentivized to actively go look for it using advanced tools which government agencies have trained you to use.

This is very true.  I have a friend who used to work at GeekSquad a few years back.  He has actually straight up told me, they get massive bonuses for "finding and reporting" CP. this incentive had actually caused multiple people throughout just the time he was there, to plant evidence on peoples computer just because the guy was a dick to them, and upper management knew what was happening and chose to turn a blind eye, because they still got the incentives and it made the store look good.

 

[Drak3]

29 minutes ago, Tsuki said:

this incentive had actually caused multiple people throughout just the time he was there, to plant evidence on peoples computer just because the guy was a dick to them

I said I would not be shocked.

 

Shocked I am not.