Kinguin Official Thread - contact a site representative.

[aisle9]

48 minutes ago, Kinguin Official said:

We would like to also emphasize that regardless of the purchased Buyer Protection we will still help every Customer in need. By no means, the lack of Buyer Protection will discard the Customer from our assistance in case of a faulty product. However, should the Customer change his mind about the purchased item, we might not accept a return of it without Buyer Protection. The lack of Buyer Protection may also lead to a slower response time.

 

Sadly, due to safety reasons, we are unable to share specific details of our procedures. However, among our biggest assets, we have dedicated teams of experts in according fields. Our experienced specialists make sure to thoroughly examine every case and bring a solution as quickly as possible. Customer satisfaction is the most important goal for us, so we always work in sweat to provide with the smoothest and fastest service.

 

We also appreciate the feedback which came from this conversation. It has been already noted and we are glad to know the community perspective on our site. 

To your first paragraph, if that's the case, why is Buyer Protection even offered? Are you saying that by purchasing Buyer Protection, you'd give me a full, no questions asked refund on a software key if I changed my mind? Now I'm looking out for you guys a bit: do you have any idea how much fraud that would lead to on a site centered around software keys? And it'd be you guys getting screwed in that scenario, not us.

 

See, telling me that you have teams of experts in according fields does nothing to make me think that any actual fraud vetting is done. "Safety reasons" doesn't fly. Knowing what I know and being in the industry I'm in, sorry, your statement doesn't hold up. There is absolutely nothing preventing you from saying, "We contact the software vendor after a key as reported to us as fraudulent, and use the information we're able to get from them to decide the case." Absolutely nothing...unless you're actually not doing it. Let's talk about those dedicated teams of experts for a second. You say "teams"...how many people does a grey-market software bazaar that has to charge people for basic protection employ? I'm sorry, I just don't buy it. I don't know what you guys do to vet, but I can tell you that based upon my experience, it's horribly, hilariously inadequate. I honestly believe that your idea of examining a case is asking the seller, who is probably also your "expert", if their key is legit. If they say yes, the buyer is told that because they refuse to use the good key, it will be resold and they will receive a refund minus Buyer Extortion when the next sap in line buys it. If the seller says oops, no, must've sold a bad one...well...has any seller/expert ever said that?

 

You can tell us how much you appreciate the feedback until you're blue in the face. Donald Trump loves to tell people leaving meetings with him that he appreciates their feedback, then he goes right back to doing whatever the hell he wants. I'll believe it when I see changes, and I think the most obvious one we've uncovered here is to stop charging for Buyer Protection. It's a deceptive item. It provides absolutely no protection beyond what leaving it off entirely does, aside from maybe the right to change your mind and return a key (which seems like a really, really bad idea for you guys) and getting to the same "we'll resell it for you and refund you minus mystery charges when it sells" a little faster.

 

If you take one thing away from my multiple rants (don't piss off a guy who works in consumer protection by telling him that you're ripping people off), take this away: consumer fraud protection should never costs the consumers extra. End Buyer Protection as an optional add-on. eBay does not charge me for it, Amazon does not charge me for it, Walmart does not charge me for it, the list goes on. Make it a standard part of all purchases, and raise seller fees to cover the additional losses you'll no doubt be taking given your evasive answers about fraud on the platform. I'd also suggest a very public, very strict fraud policy with sellers. If X% of your codes in a given month turn up fraudulent, you're out. If a hike in seller fees and a stricter set of consumer protection rules chases a few sellers away, screw 'em. They weren't the type of sellers you want around anyway.

 

Believe it or not, I do not want to see you guys fail. I was actually pretty ambivalent to Kinguin before your posts plus my own experience gave me pretty clear evidence that there is no fraud protection and Buyer Protection is no better than paying protection to the mafia. You've got a chance to right a very, very serious wrong with your platform, because right now it appears that buyers are as screwed as I was when my Windows 10 key was junk, Microsoft told me why, and your reps gave nary a poo about it because Microsoft hadn't written me a letter.

 

Take care of your consumers and be transparent in your policies, and you'll do well. Show your face in forums like this and feed us canned post after canned post with dodgy answers and "safety" concerns in lieu of insight, and you'll continue to be as roundly blasted as you were here.

[Egg-Roll]

18 minutes ago, AshleyAshes said:

My real concern is the language involved.  When they say this;

 

They are trying to 'hint' that lack of Buyer Protection offers anti-fraud measures but not actually saying that.  This means that users can assume that there will be fraud protections when there are not.  By not saying it directly, they can say that they NEVER said that there would be fraud protection only 'customer assistance' which likely doesn't go beyond customer support suggesting the user pay for buyer protection next time.

 

Unless I'm wrong and Kinguin outright stats that fraud protection is offered without paying for Buyer Protection, that would that Kinguin has been utilizing this forum for the express purpose to mislead it's users.

 

WHICH I'M SURE THAT LMG, THE MODS, AND @LinusTech ARE TOTALLY NOT OKAY WITH, RIGHT?

I'm guessing it's very much like G2A where if you don't buy it the only source of guaranteed return is your source of payment. So technically you have fraud protection. just not from them.

 

14 minutes ago, SC2Mitch said:

According to Colt, he said "Any company can apply for the program" in a DM when I expressed concern over it. 

Here's my point of view, they offer 3rd party services like Ebay and G2A etc. They are in no way being held responsible for their sellers actions and have been dodgy about answering about their policies.

 

What I would like to point out to @LinusTech is by having them as an affiliate it can negatively affect LMG as a trustworthy company. They have given similar replies to what I've had with G2A. I personally wouldn't affiliate with them, having them on the site fine, but as a company rep or something. Using "affiliate" makes it sound like they support them and are in some way in agreeance to how they conduct business.

 

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/affiliate

 

22 minutes ago, MedievalMatt said:

To be fair.  I have in current use 3 windows licenses from them.  All purchased with the mindset of "well its $30, even if they get nuked in a year it at least delays the $100 dick up the ass the MS wants me to take.  100% worth it."

 

All 3 are still working 2+ years later.  While I understand i am an individual, and not representative about the whole.  I felt like i should share my story and as least lend this conversation a small shred of positivity toward Kinguin.

 

A constructive Dialogue requires thinking critically, and you cant do that if your just brow beating them.

I've used G2A not for windows or programs but for steam, their weird policies and practices are the reason why I left. I was both a buyer and a seller, their buying policies weren't too bad, but their selling... G2A took money from you when you sell and from the protection(when you buy), plus if you're the cheapest price they took even more, they are not likely any different.

[MedievalMatt]

Just now, Egg-Roll said:

I've used G2A not for windows or programs but for steam, their weird policies and practices are the reason why I left. I was both a buyer and a seller, their buying policies weren't too bad, but their selling... G2A took money from you when you sell and from the protection, plus if you're the cheapest price they took even more, they are not likely any different.

As I'm a buyer and not a seller, and never plan to be a seller, IDGAF about how they treat their sellers TBH.

 

That said, if all the sellers jump ship and there isnt any compelling reason for me to go there. i wont.  SO i think its in their best interest to keep the sellers happy, at least on the vast majority.

[aisle9]

1 minute ago, MedievalMatt said:

As I'm a buyer and not a seller, and never plan to be a seller, IDGAF about how they treat their sellers TBH.

 

That said, if all the sellers jump ship and there isnt any compelling reason for me to go there. i wont.  SO i think its in their best interest to keep the sellers happy, at least on the vast majority.

Amazon and eBay absolutely shit on sellers. Just sayin'.

[MedievalMatt]

Just now, aisle9 said:

Amazon and eBay absolutely shit on sellers. Just sayin'.

I think everybody shits on the sellers TBH.  And yet......

[Egg-Roll]

1 minute ago, MedievalMatt said:

As I'm a buyer and not a seller, and never plan to be a seller, IDGAF about how they treat their sellers TBH.

 

That said, if all the sellers jump ship and there isnt any compelling reason for me to go there. i wont.  SO i think its in their best interest to keep the sellers happy, at least on the vast majority.

My point is if they operate like G2A that means they could grab upwards to $5 per purchase, so if you paid $30 that means the seller gets $25, where the hell do you get a key that cheap legally? While you might have had luck on not getting hit by MS (yet), I myself wouldn't trust it, it's not like steam where CS:GO players are trying to dump money made from gaming... You can't spawn free keys... Let alone $25 ones.

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, Keith W said:

Given the above in the community standards I am very surprised that kinguin has been given industry affiliate status on the forum, surprised also that this thread has not been closed down.

 

The reselling, certainly in the case of Microsoft, of OEM licence codes/volume license codes is not allowed/is illegal

 

Who at LMG gave clearance for this?

 

@LinusTech can you shed any light on this?

 

Kinguin was granted Industry Affiliate status here because that is what they are, for good or bad they are the official representative account of Kinguin. Whether their products are legitimate is not my decision to judge as an administrator of this forum. That is up to the consumer to decide whether or not they wish to do business.

 

I am not a paid employee of Linus Media Group, and thus not privy to,  so cannot speak for any partnership or endorsements provided by @LinusTech or his staff. I can however say with 100% certainty that this Industry Affiliate status is separate of any relationship there.

 

Kinguin requested Industry Affiliate status on the basis of wanting to be able to provide customer service to those members who requested it - this is no different to anything Western Digital, EK, Corsair or any of our other industry affiliate members are here for. All of the Industry Affiliates are bound by a specific set of requirements, outlined in the 2nd half of our Community Standards here.

 

As this thread however has turned into a witch hunt against Kinguin and its business practices, I will lock this.