Back to wc, need a few tips and advices

[Xyrokz]

Hi all, i'm about to go back to WC after quite a few years and i need a bit of a catch up.

 

The idea is to water a Phanteks Shift. Its going to require a lot of modding and the creation of a few new parts but i think its worth it, and of course, its fun to do so.

 

The hardware is:

• Asus z270i
• Intel 7600k
• Corsair Dominator ddr4 2x8
• Samsung 960 500gb evo
• Samsung 850 500gb evo
• Evga 1080ti ftw3
• Corsair sf600

 

The wc stuff on mind is:

• Ek z270i monoblock
• Evga 1080ti ftw3 full cover block (plexi)
• EK CoolStream SE 2x140
• EK CoolStream SE 1x140
• D5 pump with EK plexi top

 

My idea is to use two rads, a 2x140 and a 1x140, both Ek SE. That should be enough right?

 

Planning on using the new Corsair ML Pro 140 fans, any good pwm fan controller that you could recommend? I would be using 3 x 140 pwm and 1 x 120 pwm fans

 

Are pumps reliable now or using 2 is still a thing? Back in the day i use 2 d5 in series just to have some fail margin.

 

My plan is to go with hard tubing, is there any difference between acrylic and PETG? Which is better? 

 

And my last (for now) question is which kind of fitting is better for hard tubing? Push in or compression? Is push it secure enough or compression's are way to go?

 

 

Thanks everyone! 

[W-L]

1 hour ago, Xyrokz said:

-SNIP-

Welcome to the Forums! 

 

That looks like a good start be sure to confirm that the blocks are compatible with your specific model and serial number of components. For the rads a total of three 140mm rad spaces would be sufficient, if you can longer rads are always better than shorter rads in a very general sense. 

 

Your pumps if you want two D5 you can have it for reliability but a single D5 would be more than sufficient.

https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-xtop-revo-dual-d5-pwm-serial-incl-pump

 

In terms of tubing and fittings PETG is a most popular, it's tougher in terms of material compared to acrylic but lacks some chemical resistance and clarity as acrylic. Note the fluid you use as it must be compatible with PETG, anything with ethylene glycol is not recommend. Hardline fittings go with compression fittings it seals onto the walls of the tubing holding it in place and doesn't rely solely on friction as push in fittings. 

[Xyrokz]

Thanks for your reply! 

 

Ye that d5 dual top from ek looks sweet and it doesn't take to much space. I just don't know if its worth it.

 

Good to know that the rad is sufficient since i don't think i can get any more of them without a serious visual hit.

 

I'm going to be using all ek stuff since it ships to my country and its reliable. 

 

Which hard tubing od is recommended 12 mm or 16 mm?

 

As for fluid i plan to use ek cryofuel concentrates with destiled water.

[W-L]

1 minute ago, Xyrokz said:

Thanks for your reply! 

Ye that d5 dual top from ek looks sweet and it doesn't take to much space. I just don't know if its worth it.

Good to know that the rad is sufficient since i don't think i can get any more of them without a serious visual hit.

I'm going to be using all ek stuff since it ships to my country and its reliable. 

Which hard tubing od is recommended 12 mm or 16 mm?

As for fluid i plan to use ek cryofuel concentrates with destiled water.

You don't need two D5's it's up to you really, as for tubing it makes basically no difference other than aesthetics, I personally recommend 16mm most of the time as it tends to be more proportional. Cryofuel won't have anything issues with PETG based tubing. 

[Xyrokz]

Would there be significant difference in temps if i go with CE (45mm) rads instead of the SE (28mm)?

 

My goal with this is to have decent temps and low noise. Not looking for extreme oc nor near ambient temps at all. 

 

Between 60 c to 70 c with sub 1000 rpm fans its the dream.

 

Is there any downside to acrylic for the hard lines?

 

 

Also, any decent internal fan controller you could recommend?

 

Thanks a lot for all your time.

[W-L]

3 minutes ago, Xyrokz said:

Would there be significant difference in temps if i go with CE (45mm) rads instead of the SE (28mm)?

My goal with this is to have decent temps and low noise. Not looking for extreme oc nor near ambient temps at all. 

Between 60 c to 70 c with sub 1000 rpm fans its the dream.

Is there any downside to acrylic for the hard lines?

Also, any decent internal fan controller you could recommend?

Thanks a lot for all your time.

You won't see a huge difference between thicker rads it's always best to go with longer thinner rads than to stack thickness, that being said the thicker rads from EKWB do tend to perform better than the thinner variants especially compared with the competition. 

http://www.xtremerigs.net/2015/07/03/ek-coolstream-se-360mm-radiator-review/5/

 

Acrylic is more difficult to work with in terms of bending as it's not as forgiving as PETG, while I personally don't find it to be a huge worry in a system PETG as a material is much tougher in terms of impact and excessive pressure bending or forming into that shape, where acrlyic is much more brittle and cracks or shatters. 

 

For the fan controller use your motherboard, Asus boards have some of the best regarded fan control built in. 

[Xyrokz]

True but my mother has only 2 fan headers, its a bit lackluster in that area

[W-L]

2 minutes ago, Xyrokz said:

True but my mother has only 2 fan headers, its a bit lackluster in that area

You can always use fan splitters, for PWM there are power hubs such as this:

https://www.swiftech.com/8-WayPWMsplitter-sata.aspx

[daimonie]

4 hours ago, Xyrokz said:

Would there be significant difference in temps if i go with CE (45mm) rads instead of the SE (28mm)?

  

If you're already looking at EK's stuff, try this: https://www.ekwb.com/custom-loop-configurator/
It gives you a allegedly decent idea of the cooling power, noise and so forth.

[Xyrokz]

6 hours ago, daimonie said:

If you're already looking at EK's stuff, try this: https://www.ekwb.com/custom-loop-configurator/
It gives you a allegedly decent idea of the cooling power, noise and so forth.

I did try it but since my case by default cant fit any rads i'm kinda stuck. I'm going to be doing a big mod to the Phantom Shift to be able to fit both radiators.

 

On the other hand i think with 3x140 rad space should be plenty for my set up.

9 hours ago, W-L said:

You can always use fan splitters, for PWM there are power hubs such as this:

https://www.swiftech.com/8-WayPWMsplitter-sata.aspx

 

I cant order from there, only ek or amazon uk or es. 

 

Noob question, if i use a pwm Y splitter, does both fans get controlled by the mother or just one?

[W-L]

5 minutes ago, Xyrokz said:

I did try it but since my case by default cant fit any rads i'm kinda stuck. I'm going to be doing a big mod to the Phantom Shift to be able to fit both radiators.

 

On the other hand i think with 3x140 rad space should be plenty for my set up.

 

I cant order from there, only ek or amazon uk or es. 

 

Noob question, if i use a pwm Y splitter, does both fans get controlled by the mother or just one?

There are lots of options on amazon and such, as for the control it sets it up as a group so one header will control

multiple fans together on the hub. 

[daimonie]

6 hours ago, Xyrokz said:

I did try it but since my case by default cant fit any rads i'm kinda stuck. I'm going to be doing a big mod to the Phantom Shift to be able to fit both radiators.

 

Well, just grab a case that is able to fit it and calculate with that  At least you get some idea of the cooling power / noise. For just cooling power, their blog has a nice post: https://www.ekwb.com/blog/radiators-part-2-performance/

[Xyrokz]

7 hours ago, daimonie said:

Well, just grab a case that is able to fit it and calculate with that  At least you get some idea of the cooling power / noise. For just cooling power, their blog has a nice post: https://www.ekwb.com/blog/radiators-part-2-performance/

I saw all those guides. Because of them im sticking with the SE rads instead of the CE ones.

 

For the rpm's i plan to use (1000 and below) there is almost no difference at all in performance. You can see a noticeable improvement from 1600 rpm and up.

 

Its plexi a reliable material for block tops and pump? 

 

 

[W-L]

22 minutes ago, Xyrokz said:

I saw all those guides. Because of them im sticking with the SE rads instead of the CE ones.

 

For the rpm's i plan to use (1000 and below) there is almost no difference at all in performance. You can see a noticeable improvement from 1600 rpm and up.

 

Its plexi a reliable material for block tops and pump? 

If your going with thin rads Hardware Lab's options are very good, as for the acrylic tops yes it's not an issue as long as you don't over torque the mounting bolts or fittings. 

[daimonie]

7 hours ago, Xyrokz said:

I saw all those guides. Because of them im sticking with the SE rads instead of the CE ones.

 

For the rpm's i plan to use (1000 and below) there is almost no difference at all in performance. You can see a noticeable improvement from 1600 rpm and up.

 

Its plexi a reliable material for block tops and pump? 

 

 

Mostly for future reference, I'm attaching the graph. So, what we can see is that for "low noise" options, the 240's and 360's converge no matter the radiator thickness. This is exactly Xyrokz's point. I surmise that physically, the slower airflow has reached thermal equilibrium before the end of the SE thickness, so that PE and XE thickness don't actually add anything. With higher rpm/airflow, the equilibrium is not reached at the end of the SE thickness and thus the radiator thickness has more effect on the right.

I might be somewhat lazy, but I'm planning to get a XE 360 myself. I'm building this into a DIY desk, so whatever  
 

[Xyrokz]

I would go with a CE (45 mm) rad but i cant stand the fan noise. The idea is to have a quiet system and that is only going to happen with low rpm fans and thin rads.

 

My old set up had two 4x120 swiftech rads with 800 rpm sflex fans all that mounted in a isolated box behind my desk, was sile

nt as you can get. 

 

Now i'm looking for a "portable" system with a reasonable size, i'm going to be adding 6 cm to the width of the case so its not going to be that bad 

 

 

16 hours ago, W-L said:

If your going with thin rads Hardware Lab's options are very good, as for the acrylic tops yes it's not an issue as long as you don't over torque the mounting bolts or fittings. 

 

Im looking the nemesis gts ones and i'm trying to find any comparison against ek se 140mm ones.

 

Im really careful with my builds so torque wont be an issue. I was worried about cracking because of temps / time of use mostly. I would like to have this build for at least 2 years with the right maintenance ofc.

[W-L]

5 minutes ago, Xyrokz said:

I would go with a CE (45 mm) rad but i cant stand the fan noise. The idea is to have a quiet system and that is only going to happen with low rpm fans and thin rads.

My old set up had two 4x120 swiftech rads with 800 rpm sflex fans all that mounted in a isolated box behind my desk, was sile

nt as you can get. 

Now i'm looking for a "portable" system with a reasonable size, i'm going to be adding 6 cm to the width of the case so its not going to be that bad 

Im looking the nemesis gts ones and i'm trying to find any comparison against ek se 140mm ones.

Im really careful with my builds so torque wont be an issue. I was worried about cracking because of temps / time of use mostly. I would like to have this build for at least 2 years with the right maintenance ofc.

Heat cycling overtime will make acrylic more brittle but it takes a long time before you will really see issues with it, most times I've seen damage on to acrylic is due to over torquing or physically dropping and damaging it. 

 

Since your aiming for 1000RPM depending on fans and setup it may not be dead silent but very quiet, the fans contribute the most in terms of noise. I personally don't have anything running above 750RPM even at full load but that being said I have a large excess of rad space. 

http://www.xtremerigs.net/2015/02/11/hardwarelabs-nemesis-360-gts-radiator-review/5/

[Xyrokz]

In the graphs it seems like its a really big difference between them.

 

Would there be a lot of difference between a pull and push scenario? They review push and pull/push. I was planning on having a push for the 1x140 and pull for the 2x140 since i was planing to install al the fans inside the case and the rads out of it between the case and the outer covers.

 

I can get the hwlabs ones for about $30 extra.

[W-L]

1 minute ago, Xyrokz said:

In the graphs it seems like its a really big difference between them.

 

Would there be a lot of difference between a pull and push scenario? They review push and pull/push. I was planning on having a push for the 1x140 and pull for the 2x140 since i was planing to install al the fans inside the case and the rads out of it between the case and the outer covers.

 

I can get the hwlabs ones for about $30 extra.

Push vs pull make very little difference, a good number of people prefer pull as it makes cleaning out the front of the rad easier even with dust filters some will get by. With push and pull it only providing a few degrees of difference in most situations.

[Xyrokz]

2 minutes ago, W-L said:

Push vs pull make very little difference, a good number of people prefer pull as it makes cleaning out the front of the rad easier even with dust filters some will get by. With push and pull it only providing a few degrees of difference in most situations.

Good to know. 

 

I was about to order Ek rads but now i think i might go with the HWLabs ones. I would have to order them from Performance Pcs, never bought from there.

[W-L]

2 minutes ago, Xyrokz said:

Good to know. 

 

I was about to order Ek rads but now i think i might go with the HWLabs ones. I would have to order them from Performance Pcs, never bought from there.

Performance PC's is a fairly large online retailer for watercooling gear and other hardware, we have a couple rep here on the forums if you have questions. @PPCs-Kat

[AMDNeko]

1 hour ago, Xyrokz said:

Good to know. 

 

I was about to order Ek rads but now i think i might go with the HWLabs ones. I would have to order them from Performance Pcs, never bought from there.

 If you do end up putting together an order through us over $250 let me know in messages I can give you 11% off to help offset costs~ Also HWLabs rads are great! they just need more cleaning so be sure to clean loop extra well before dyes, etc.

1 hour ago, W-L said:

Performance PC's is a fairly large online retailer for watercooling gear and other hardware, we have a couple rep here on the forums if you have questions. @PPCs-Kat

Always here to help~

[Xyrokz]

3 minutes ago, PPCs-Kat said:

 If you do end up putting together an order through us over $250 let me know in messages I can give you 11% off to help offset costs~ Also HWLabs rads are great! they just need more cleaning so be sure to clean loop extra well before dyes, etc.

Always here to help~

 

wow thanks!  

 

I'll be placing an order for sure, i'll let you know as soon as i have all the parts ready.

 

I saw that the nemesis GTS rads are really restrictive while the nemesis x flow GTS have half the restriction with almost equal performance. Should i be worried about this? Can a single d5 handle the 2 rads and 2 blocks with a decent flow rate? 

[W-L]

13 minutes ago, Xyrokz said:

 

wow thanks!  

 

I'll be placing an order for sure, i'll let you know as soon as i have all the parts ready.

 

I saw that the nemesis GTS rads are really restrictive while the nemesis x flow GTS have half the restriction with almost equal performance. Should i be worried about this? Can a single d5 handle the 2 rads and 2 blocks with a decent flow rate? 

Yeah a single D5 won't have any trouble going through that and more even, rads aren't really restrictive in a loop the blocks are what tends to be the main point of concern. 

[Xyrokz]

Thanks again for your help! 

 

Well now i have almost all the parts, the only ones remaining are fans and fittings.

 

For the fans i was thinking in the new Corsair ML Pro 140 white. I would connect 2 per header of the mother using an Y cable splitter, that should do the trick right?

 

 

As for fittings i was looking at this bitpower ones but they said "for acrylic". They work fine with petg? Are this fittings good? I use in the past the normal bitspower compression and they were one of the best.

 

Also i saw a lot of builds with angle fittings using hard tubbing, is this the best way to go or is just to avoid having to bend it? I would love to avoid those to achieve a clean and less cluttered build tbh.