Retro Gaming TV Advice

[Zaku77]

Hey everyone,

 

I was hoping that someone who is more knowledgeable about older TV technology can help me make a decision on what to get for my retro gaming needs. I am looking for a TV for my 5th and 6th generation consoles. My plan is to hook the 6th gen consoles up via component and use the 480p/Progressive Scan modes to get the sharpest image possible. Now, I've personally experienced how bad that looks on a modern 1080p TV, so I want to get something older that will let it truly shine.

 

I currently have a very large DLP for this purpose. It has some issues with the screen, though, that I am not willing to fix, and it doesn't actually have component in! So it is definitely not my permanent solution.

 

I am torn between trying to find an Extended Definition TV--these are a huge pain to find and are normally small--or considering a different option, such as a different DLP set.

 

Here is a DLP that I am considering:

https://www.cnet.com/products/samsung-hln567w-56-rear-projection-tv/specs/

 

It is 16:9, rather than 4:3, and it is 720p. It supports 480p, of course, but that's not the native resolution. Would retro games still look good on this set? Or do I need to try to find a 4:3 480p set to really get the most bang for my buck? I'm just not very familiar with pre-modern HDTV technology, so I don't fully understand the pros and cons, nor do I quite comprehend where that 'sweet spot' is for older systems to look nice via component.

 

Any help and advice would be very much appreciated. Thank you! 

[AshleyAshes]

Modern TVs have digital RGB panels.  Any analog signal must be converted to digital RGB to be displayed on the panel and the hardware to do this is lack luster and slow.  Input lag is significant.  This is why for Smash Bother's Melee professional competitions they literally hoard CRTs to hook up to GameCube's for the game.  Because that's the way to get it done.

 

You have two realistic options of you want results that arn't, well, crap;

 

1) Invest in a Framemeister or something similar.

 

2) Just buy a CRT Instead.  I suggest a nice Sony Trinitron/WEGA with component and S-Video input.

[Zaku77]

2 minutes ago, AshleyAshes said:

Modern TVs have digital RGB panels.  Any analog signal must be converted to digital RGB to be displayed on the panel and the hardware to do this is lack luster and slow.  Input lag is significant.  This is why for Smash Bother's Melee professional competitions they literally hoard CRTs to hook up to GameCube's for the game.  Because that's the way to get it done.

 

You have two realistic options of you want results that arn't, well, crap;

 

1) Invest in a Framemeister or something similar.

 

2) Just buy a CRT Instead.  I suggest a nice Sony Trinitron/WEGA with component and S-Video input.

So there are CRTs with component? Would those actually be the expanded definition TVs that I had mentioned?

 

Thanks! 

[AshleyAshes]

1 minute ago, Zaku77 said:

So there are CRTs with component? Would those actually be the expanded definition TVs that I had mentioned?

 

Thanks! 

Let's go over some quick analog video stuff:

 

Your most common input in North America is simple composite.  That is all the information video signal in a single tiny wire.  Ever notice that straight lines on composite video, especialyl on good displays, seemed to have 'dots' crawling up them?  That's called Composite Dot Crawl.

 

 

This can be avoided with the right hardware but it also depends on the console.

 

S-Video uses a Mini-Din connector and carries two signals, one is Y or 'Luminance' (A greyscale image that is) that the other is C or 'Chrominance'.  Byt seperating Luma from Chroma you have more bandwidth and you won't see the dot crawl.  You'll also see less color bleed since the color signal has it's own signal instead of being blended in with the luma on composite.  You an get cheap third party cables for PS1. SNES or up for those consoles.  I'm not 100% sure but I believe the Sega Genesis needs a hardware mod for s-video and I can't recall off hand what's required for older generations.

 

Then you have component video that does what S-video does but takes it to another level.  It has three cables, Y (Luma again) but instead of C (Chroma) it has Pb Pr which are two separate color channels that when subtracted from each other make a whole color image.  In short, twice the bandwidth for color.  Not the same setup up from composite to S-video but still an improvement.  You can def find component inputs on larger CRT TVs especially from 'quality brands'.  Sony's Trinis and Wegas are really the best you can get.  For those CRTs you will still be limited to 480i, but it's the best 480i signal you can get on most 4:3 CRT TVs.

 

You can get component cables for PS2, PS3, Wii, Xbox, Xbox 360, GameCube* and Wii.  Now, the GameCube used component cables with a very special cable that used the DIGITAL video output that wasn't even on later models, then used it's own conversion hardware in the cable to make a component signal.  Those cables are RARE and STUPID expensive though third party replicas have been turning up lately.  But it'd be easier to just use cheap component cables in a Wii and put your GC games in the Wii.

[NTDaws]

I had to build a gaming computer out of a Mirror Projector TV. 

[Zaku77]

3 minutes ago, AshleyAshes said:

Let's go over some quick analog video stuff:

 

Your most common input in North America is simple composite.  That is all the information video signal in a single tiny wire.  Ever notice that straight lines on composite video, especialyl on good displays, seemed to have 'dots' crawling up them?  That's called Composite Dot Crawl.

 

 

This can be avoided with the right hardware but it also depends on the console.

 

S-Video uses a Mini-Din connector and carries two signals, one is Y or 'Luminance' (A greyscale image that is) that the other is C or 'Chrominance'.  Byt seperating Luma from Chroma you have more bandwidth and you won't see the dot crawl.  You'll also see less color bleed since the color signal has it's own signal instead of being blended in with the luma on composite.  You an get cheap third party cables for PS1. SNES or up for those consoles.  I'm not 100% sure but I believe the Sega Genesis needs a hardware mod for s-video and I can't recall off hand what's required for older generations.

 

Then you have component video that does what S-video does but takes it to another level.  It has three cables, Y (Luma again) but instead of C (Chroma) it has Pb Pr which are two separate color channels that when subtracted from each other make a whole color image.  In short, twice the bandwidth for color.  Not the same setup up from composite to S-video but still an improvement.  You can def find component inputs on larger CRT TVs especially from 'quality brands'.  Sony's Trinis and Wegas are really the best you can get.  For those CRTs you will still be limited to 480i, but it's the best 480i signal you can get on most 4:3 CRT TVs.

 

You can get component cables for PS2, PS3, Wii, Xbox, Xbox 360, GameCube* and Wii.  Now, the GameCube used component cables with a very special cable that used the DIGITAL video output that wasn't even on later models, then used it's own conversion hardware in the cable to make a component signal.  Those cables are RARE and STUPID expensive though third party replicas have been turning up lately.  But it'd be easier to just use cheap component cables in a Wii and put your GC games in the Wii.

Thank you for all of your explanations, and I apologize if my questions come off as a stupid. So you are recommending that I target one of the higher quality CRTs that you mentioned and utilize component to get a 480i output? I had previously heard that the 480p (progressive scan mode) via component would be the best possible picture, dependent on the television it's displayed on, of course. Is that part not accurate? Because if it's not, then I'll just give up my search for a 480p screen.

[AshleyAshes]

1 minute ago, Zaku77 said:

Thank you for all of your explanations, and I apologize if my questions come off as a stupid. So you are recommending that I target one of the higher quality CRTs that you mentioned and utilize component to get a 480i output? I had previously heard that the 480p (progressive scan mode) via component would be the best possible picture, dependent on the television it's displayed on, of course. Is that part not accurate? Because if it's not, then I'll just give up my search for a 480p screen.

The problem with 480p is you're not going to find a lot of machines or games that supported it.  The classic Xbox could do 480p for all games (And even 720p or 1080i on some games), SOME PS2 titles could do 480p or other modes.  But it's not a long list.  A lot of of the time 480i is the BEST you'll get out of the hardware.

 

Sony's larger Trinitron and Wega CRTs made after 2000 go for like $50 used, if you can find them.  Normally the 27" models or higher have component.  ...Also they are like 99lbs (150lbs or so for the 32"s).  Guess why I got rid of my 27" Sony Wega some years ago! There's about 99lbs worth of reasons.  I just emulate now. >_>

 

But yes a proper CRT for retrogaming isn't always what you need.  You can alternatively look at a Framemeister or something to convert the signal, quickly, into a digital signal for your HDTV.  That's also a an option and a lot of enthusiasts go that way because while they want a low lag experience, they want it on a giant modern TV.  But long story short; Very, very, VERY few HDTVs have the necessary hardware built in to read analog video and give the best experience for retro gaming.  It's so far from a priority it's not funny.  It's basically a legacy connection to avoid consumer rage.

[markr54632]

Keep your eye out for old "professional" crt displays on craigslist. I find them pretty frequently here. I used to have a couple, but I am just not serious enough to keep a CRT out.

 

I would be interested in finding a better solution for SNES, but other than that I just use a backwards compatible PS3, Wii, and 360 for the majority of the disc based games I want to play.

[Zaku77]

1 hour ago, AshleyAshes said:

The problem with 480p is you're not going to find a lot of machines or games that supported it.  The classic Xbox could do 480p for all games (And even 720p or 1080i on some games), SOME PS2 titles could do 480p or other modes.  But it's not a long list.  A lot of of the time 480i is the BEST you'll get out of the hardware.

 

Sony's larger Trinitron and Wega CRTs made after 2000 go for like $50 used, if you can find them.  Normally the 27" models or higher have component.  ...Also they are like 99lbs (150lbs or so for the 32"s).  Guess why I got rid of my 27" Sony Wega some years ago! There's about 99lbs worth of reasons.  I just emulate now. >_>

 

But yes a proper CRT for retrogaming isn't always what you need.  You can alternatively look at a Framemeister or something to convert the signal, quickly, into a digital signal for your HDTV.  That's also a an option and a lot of enthusiasts go that way because while they want a low lag experience, they want it on a giant modern TV.  But long story short; Very, very, VERY few HDTVs have the necessary hardware built in to read analog video and give the best experience for retro gaming.  It's so far from a priority it's not funny.  It's basically a legacy connection to avoid consumer rage.

What would your opinion on this one be? It seems to be a slightly older version (the seller of the one I found claims they bought it in 1998). Do you think that this would be a good option?

 

https://www.cnet.com/products/sony-kv-36fv1-wega-36-crt-tv/specs/

[AshleyAshes]

3 hours ago, Zaku77 said:

What would your opinion on this one be? It seems to be a slightly older version (the seller of the one I found claims they bought it in 1998). Do you think that this would be a good option?

 

https://www.cnet.com/products/sony-kv-36fv1-wega-36-crt-tv/specs/

If I was in the market specifically for a retro gaming TV yeah, that'd be a big glorious TV with lots of good analog inputs.  And Trinitron/Wega tubes are probably the best made for CRTs.  (Those TVs were NOT cheap when they were new).

 

But, CRT tubes do eventually fail.  Don't buy a 15+ year old TV without seeing the picture first, make sure it's still good.  Also at 235lbs... Well, that is a major downside of CRTs. ^_^;;;  Not to mention the 240w consumption it pulls in a lot more than my 65" 4K TV.  On the other hand, you are keeping a lot of leaded glass out of dumpster and that is good for the environment in it's own way.

 

It's a good TV and the caveats are what they are basically.

[Siskofan]

I was recently looking for something for my own Play Station 2. It came with the composite cables, but I was wondering if upgrading to component would be better, but after reading this I see it probably wouldn't on its own.

 

The problem is, my space is limited, and I don't really have room for a CRT big enough to support component (or one that supports composite and stereo audio either) so my conclusion is that investing in a Framemeister is my only option. Would this be correct?

[SolarNova]

Personaly , i use component with my 1080p plasma for my PS2 when i want to play it. Used to use composite into scart, which looked like turd.

 

Considering its 42" the image isnt half bad.

 

Though with Plasma ur locked at a minimum size of 42", which is likely to big for u.

 

So yea CRT is likely your best option.

 

The be all end all of CRT is the Sony GDM FW900 iirc. It is a 24" 16:10 2304 x 1440 80hz  , and can be tweeked to go higher resolution, or lower with higher refresh(though recommended res is 1920x1200 80hz). But they are getting rare, and they dont come cheap. However if u want the BEST, thats what u want to look for.

[AshleyAshes]

20 minutes ago, SolarNova said:

The be all end all of CRT is the Sony GDM FW900 iirc. It is a 24" 16:10 2304 x 1440 80hz  , and can be tweeked to go higher resolution, or lower with higher refresh(though recommended res is 1920x1200 80hz). But they are getting rare, and they dont come cheap. However if u want the BEST, thats what u want to look for.

Uhm... That's a PC monitor.  The FW900 only supports RGBHV and RGsB as input signals.  You'd need a additional signal conversion hardware to use most gaming consoles on it.  Also it's 16:10 where as retro game consoles would be 4:3.  Also it's only 24".  It has no TV remote.  I can go on?

 

(Though there are RGBHV VGA cables for Dreamcast and Xbox 360, also an RGsB vga cable for the PS2)

 

I mean, the FW900 is the best desktop PC CRT monitor, but to use on retro gaming consoles it's a pretty terrible suggestion.  I have absolutely no idea why, with the goal of OP, you would call that 'the best' and 'what u should look for'.