Questions on Internet + phone signal in new house

[Inception9269]

Come the end of February or March time I'll be possibly moving in to a new place. The house is a two story one with a finished basement, me renting the basement. I will be in charge of getting Internet set up in the place. The house is 102 years old and has never had Internet installed ever, it belonging to my brother in laws grandfather that died last year. I'm not worried about running Internet to the basement, the house has forced air conditioning so vents all over, can easily run an ethernet connection through it to the basement. But wifi signal on the second floor and basement I imagine will be shite. Also phone signal I'm worried about due to the houses age, I didn't think to check phone signal last time I was there. I'd want good wifi signal and phone signal if needed.

 

So was wanting to know what a reasonable inexpensive solution to that would be? Like I said the house is 102 years old so power line adapters probably wouldn't work very well. Also they don't want holes drilled through the walls aside from the one needed for when Internet guys come and set things up. Also if I do need to boost phone signal what'd be a good device to do so. I think Linus talked about devices like that awhile ago

[Cazan]

5 minutes ago, Inception9269 said:

Come the end of February or March time I'll be possibly moving in to a new place. The house is a two story one with a finished basement, me renting the basement. I will be in charge of getting Internet set up in the place. The house is 102 years old and has never had Internet installed ever, it belonging to my brother in laws grandfather that died last year. I'm not worried about running Internet to the basement, the house has forced air conditioning so vents all over, can easily run an ethernet connection through it to the basement. But wifi signal on the second floor and basement I imagine will be shite. Also phone signal I'm worried about due to the houses age, I didn't think to check phone signal last time I was there. I'd want good wifi signal and phone signal if needed.

 

So was wanting to know what a reasonable inexpensive solution to that would be? Like I said the house is 102 years old so power line adapters probably wouldn't work very well. Also they don't want holes drilled through the walls aside from the one needed for when Internet guys come and set things up. Also if I do need to boost phone signal what'd be a good device to do so. I think Linus talked about devices like that awhile ago

maybe a second router as a wifi booster ?  phone signal shouldn't be that bad unless the house is  in a very very very (you get it ) remote area ...

[knightslugger]

Use an AP

4 minutes ago, Cazan said:

maybe a second router as a wifi booster ?

Lol no. APs are much cheaper and have far fewer problems.

[Inception9269]

5 minutes ago, knightslugger said:

Use an AP

Lol no. APs are much cheaper and have far fewer problems.

Might look into that depending on if signal does become an issue there

[Cazan]

6 minutes ago, knightslugger said:

Use an AP

Lol no. APs are much cheaper and have far fewer problems.

but with an AP you loose quite a bit of speed. if he knows how to configure a 2nd router or his internet provider lets him have 2 ready to use i guess it's a better solution. 

 

BUT you are right in a way.. 

[Inception9269]

19 minutes ago, Cazan said:

maybe a second router as a wifi booster ?  phone signal shouldn't be that bad unless the house is  in a very very very (you get it ) remote area ...

The area is in the middle of our city in an area that most likely gets very good signal. Just worried about possibility of the house blocking the signals cause it's age

[Cazan]

1 minute ago, Inception9269 said:

The area is in the middle of out city in an area that most likely gets very good signal. Just worried about possibility of the house blocking the signals cause it's age

yeah i got that but still you shouldn't have that many problems  because of the walls blocking the signal  

[knightslugger]

1 hour ago, Cazan said:

but with an AP you loose quite a bit of speed. if he knows how to configure a 2nd router or his internet provider lets him have 2 ready to use i guess it's a better solution. 

 

BUT you are right in a way.. 

Unless he's going to get Gigabit fiber to a 100 year old house, he wont have to worry much about getting an 802.11 AC AP slowing down his internet. Configuring a ISP owned device is a NIGHTMARE full of pitfalls, traps, and LOCKOUTS. Hell. No. An ap is just about damn near plug and play.

 

As for cellphone signal, if it IS bad and you are in an area where coverage is supposed to good to excellent, many carriers will install a repeater at the property for little to nothing..

[Jtalk4456]

i'm not an electrician, but my advice is that since you have to wire down to the basement anyways, have a switch upstairs, then have the one wire run down to the basement for hardwiring if you don't need wifi in the basement or an inexpensive, short range signal router down there if you do, and then have a separate good router upstairs for your main wifi area

[Donut417]

3 hours ago, Inception9269 said:

Come the end of February or March time I'll be possibly moving in to a new place. The house is a two story one with a finished basement, me renting the basement. I will be in charge of getting Internet set up in the place. The house is 102 years old and has never had Internet installed ever, it belonging to my brother in laws grandfather that died last year. I'm not worried about running Internet to the basement, the house has forced air conditioning so vents all over, can easily run an ethernet connection through it to the basement. But wifi signal on the second floor and basement I imagine will be shite. Also phone signal I'm worried about due to the houses age, I didn't think to check phone signal last time I was there. I'd want good wifi signal and phone signal if needed.

 

So was wanting to know what a reasonable inexpensive solution to that would be? Like I said the house is 102 years old so power line adapters probably wouldn't work very well. Also they don't want holes drilled through the walls aside from the one needed for when Internet guys come and set things up. Also if I do need to boost phone signal what'd be a good device to do so. I think Linus talked about devices like that awhile ago

Just because the house is 102 years old doesn't mean its going to have shit WiFi. It really matters what its built out of. Generally  wood, drywall and plaster tend to do ok. Its cinder block, brick and cement that you might have issues with. Your best bet is to put the router in the central part of the house. Though if you can run some cables to some AP's then you might be able to make sure full coverage. 

 

As far as phones go. Linus has cell phone boosters installed I think. Not sure if they are specific to carrier or bands. You would need to check in to that. You may also get a micro cell site that connected to your internet connection. 

 

I think the big thing is to figure out if/where you need wired connections. Also while roaming would be an issue if you use different APs through out. You can use wireless routers instead of AP's if you have them laying around. You either have to put them in AP mode, OR you can turn off the "router" parts and use them as an AP/Switch. Which can come in handy in areas where you need WiFi, but might have multiple devices that need to be wired. 

 

If you have a wireless router laying around. Id put it where you think your going to want it, and do a site survey. Use WiFi analyzer on an Android phone or even laptop and see how the signal goes thru the building. Take note of where it cuts out. That should help you figure out if/how many AP's you might need. Then you can plan out how to get signal there. Also keep in mind while power line adapters might not work, depending on how old the wiring is. There are also adapters that use Coax, called moca adapters. So if you have coax in areas where you cant or really dont want to bother runing Ethernet to, you can use them to connect things to your network as well. Basically one moca adapter connected to the network its self, and you can have 16 moca devices on a coax network. Moca will work along side cable tv and internet service, NOT satellite however, you need special adapters for that service. 

[TurtleZero]

3 hours ago, knightslugger said:

Unless he's going to get Gigabit fiber to a 100 year old house, he wont have to worry much about getting an 802.11 AC AP slowing down his internet. Configuring a ISP owned device is a NIGHTMARE full of pitfalls, traps, and LOCKOUTS. Hell. No. An ap is just about damn near plug and play.

Configuring a secondary router as an AP usually requires zero effort on the ISP owned router. Just turn off DHCP, assign it a static IP, plug into main router and you're good to go. So if you can find a good deal on a router, I think that could be the way to go.

[knightslugger]

3 minutes ago, TurtleZero said:

Configuring a secondary router as an AP usually requires zero effort on the ISP owned router. Just turn off DHCP, assign it a static IP, plug into main router and you're good to go. So if you can find a good deal on a router, I think that could be the way to go.

you say that as if i have not gone through the pains before. I assure you, I have, and to blanket statement that it's super duper easy plainly isn't factual.

[TurtleZero]

Just now, knightslugger said:

you say that as if i have not gone through the pains before. I assure you, I have, and to blanket statement that it's super duper easy plainly isn't factual.

Well, I was speaking simply from my experience. Maybe it is different with your ISP for some weird reason, but otherwise I'm not sure why you found it so difficult.

[knightslugger]

1 minute ago, TurtleZero said:

Well, I was speaking simply from my experience. Maybe it is different with your ISP for some weird reason, but otherwise I'm not sure why you found it so difficult.

because certain elements within the router firmware are custom for an ISP, and some of them are locked. You might THINK it's a Netgear stock firmware... but you'd be wrong. There are SO MANY DIFFERENT ones out there, some are more locked down than others. Hell we just had someone trying to get EXACTLY what you want done here on the forum and he was pretty much SCREWED. He could no disable DHCP on the router and had to use a single IP range for the addressing, only to find out that when you have two DHCP servers on the same subnet, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE A BAD TIME. They are both fighting for addressing.

 

You REALLY have to know what you are doing.

[Donut417]

Just now, knightslugger said:

router firmware are custom for an ISP

Generally you use the DHCP server on the ISP supplied box if your using the ISP supplied box. Then you turn the DCHP off on the secondary router. Thats just been my experience. 

[knightslugger]

Just now, Donut417 said:

Generally you use the DHCP server on the ISP supplied box if your using the ISP supplied box. Then you turn the DCHP off on the secondary router. Thats just been my experience. 

and what if you can't (as my example of how wrong it can go)? Now you're fucking around with Subnets. Why bother at all when a REALLY DEAD SIMPLE solution exists for the cost of a frog?

[TurtleZero]

Just now, Donut417 said:

Generally you use the DHCP server on the ISP supplied box if your using the ISP supplied box. Then you turn the DCHP off on the secondary router. Thats just been my experience. 

That is exactly my point. Disable your DHCP on a NON ISP router, and use your ISP router as the DHCP Router

[Donut417]

48 minutes ago, knightslugger said:

and what if you can't (as my example of how wrong it can go)? Now you're fucking around with Subnets. Why bother at all when a REALLY DEAD SIMPLE solution exists for the cost of a frog?

Most if not all routers I have come across allow this function, NON ISP of course. ISP routers are generally locked to their providers. Meaning, you shouldn't have one just laying around, if you do either you had to buy it, and its worthless, or you did not turn it back in.. Your only going to have more than one ISP supplied box on your network, if you even have to use their box. Im a Comcast sub and I dont use a Comcast supplied gateway. I have customer owned modem and a standard router. 

 

Plus I like to add, that most ISP's provide Modem/Routers. So you shouldn't be using them as a router in the first place. If the op, went out and bought a standard router, they would be able to disable the DHCP server and setup like I stated, or turn it in to an AP with in the firmware itself. Again some people like having extra ports, which is why some choose to use a router, rather than an AP. 

 

Also not 100% sure where the OP lives, but its hows as IL, USA, Chicago is Comcast territory, I would venture a guess, they supply service to much of the state. My config 100% works with Comcast supplied gateways. Its just about having half a brain and setting things up correctly. 

 

Wanted to add, that if you use the method with a router instead of AP, You need to make sure you hook it up LAN to LAN with the main router. Dont use the WAN port. 

[Inception9269]

Would like to add that I don't plan on buying or leasing or whatever any router they other, I'll most likely just buy some $60ish one from the store.

 

The internet provider is Charter Spectrum. If it were Comcast then I'd really be worrying about things.

[Lurick]

6 hours ago, Inception9269 said:

Would like to add that I don't plan on buying or leasing or whatever any router they other, I'll most likely just buy some $60ish one from the store.

 

The internet provider is Charter Spectrum. If it were Comcast then I'd really be worrying about things.

The nice thing about Spectrum is they don't charge rental fees for the modems

If you're getting their gigabit service, if available of course, then you have to use their modem but otherwise you're free to use your own as well.

For Arris modems the SB6183 or SB8200 are my recommendations, do not use the SB6190

[Donut417]

8 hours ago, Inception9269 said:

The internet provider is Charter Spectrum. If it were Comcast then I'd really be worrying about things.

Charter will give you a gateway (modem.router combo), as @Lurick suggests they dont charge Rental fees. Though I heard they have shit support for customer owned modems. Also, Comcast while being bastards is much better in terms of network and quality. While they charge modem rental fees, they allow customer owned modems very easily on their network. Shit, they have a sizable list of retail modems that will work, that they have tested, that they provider firmware support. Heard Charter can be hit or miss on customer owned modems, and they dont provide any firmware upgrades. 

 

The fact is, if you use the Charter supplied box, you will have a modem and router. Then you might need to connect additional AP's as needed. Because you cant be 100% sure that the AP built in to the Charter box will cover the whole house. Also, if you plan on using you own router, then you need to set it up properly other wise you can run in to double NAT, which can cause issues. 

[mynameisjuan]

11 hours ago, knightslugger said:

because certain elements within the router firmware are custom for an ISP, and some of them are locked. You might THINK it's a Netgear stock firmware... but you'd be wrong. There are SO MANY DIFFERENT ones out there, some are more locked down than others. Hell we just had someone trying to get EXACTLY what you want done here on the forum and he was pretty much SCREWED. He could no disable DHCP on the router and had to use a single IP range for the addressing, only to find out that when you have two DHCP servers on the same subnet, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE A BAD TIME. They are both fighting for addressing.

 

You REALLY have to know what you are doing.

Honestly sounds like that guy was over complicating everything. We just throw modems in bridge mode and then you handle it. 

[knightslugger]

45 minutes ago, mynameisjuan said:

Honestly sounds like that guy was over complicating everything. We just throw modems in bridge mode and then you handle it. 

everyone in that thread that was following and replying agreed he was.