Network Instability

[princemc]

So, over the past few months I have been noticing a lot of small internet drop-offs daily which disrupts workflow at work. I'd like to see if anyone had any ideas or if I'm SOL in this situation. 

 

This is a small business where all of our devices that we use throughout the day for work are all on the WiFi, with the exception of one which is a receipt printer hardwired in. We used to experience a lot of instability which caused; The receipt printer to go down constantly (Before we wired it in physically), An Audio Chromecast to cut out, a regular Video Chromecast to cut out, our wireless printer to go down, and a few other small issues. After noticing all of this, I wired the receipt printer in directly to the modem, which has reduced the cut-outs, I've set static IP addresses to every device except for a single employee smartphone (Even mine has a static IP address). The static IP address switch reduced the frequency of outages but they still occur a few times a day.

 

The Audio Chromecast still cuts out a lot, which really throws work off, as the entire store goes silent until I physically reset the Chromecast. So if I have a lot of customers come in, and it's silent, I can't really fix it until they are all taken care of. The Audio Chromecast is about 6 inches from the modem, as our Stereo Receiver is in the "network closet" so I'm not sure why it cuts out so much unless it's actually TOO close if such a thing exists. The receipt printer still cuts out and doesn't show as available on our iPad POS software unless I disable/enable WiFi on it. 

 

I don't know of any free network uptime monitors that would run long enough to catch a failure, as the only one I found runs for only 30 minutes and every time I ran it, it never caught anything. Given the fact that multiple devices go down still and it's not just one, I'd like to rule out single device failure. Google offered to send another Audio Chromecast to see if there's an issue with the one we have, but like I said, other devices go down at the same time so I don't think it's any one device failing.

 

The internet is TWC/Spectrum, and we had a brand new modem installed just 2 months ago. One of their technicians that happens to be a customer said that "It could be the building" which, frankly doesn't make sense to me unless all the hookups on the building for their service are old and corroded, degraded and are unstable. 

 

If there's anything else I should try to fix these issues without sitting on the phone with Spectrum for a few hours, I would love to know. I'll try what I can if anyone has any suggestions.

 

TL;DR I have network instability issues that cause devices to cut out during the day and I've already tried Static IP addresses to reduce IP Conflicts, as well as wiring in basically the only device that actually has an Ethernet port. 

[intertan]

as a business you should not be using wifi.

I do suspect it is a wifi issue, you using the provided isp hardware for your wifi?

 

[princemc]

4 minutes ago, intertan said:

as a business you should not be using wifi.

I do suspect it is a wifi issue, you using the provided isp hardware for your wifi?

 

Believe me, I know we shouldn't be, but I didn't set the network up. DM set it up and I'm trying to go through and clean it all up. Unfortunately most of the computers we have are Netbooks/Ultrabooks so no Ethernet ports, Wireless only printer, 2 Chromecasts, an iPad. Most of what we use can only run on WiFi and cannot be wired in. 

 

Yes, we are using ISP provided hardware. A Wireless Modem from Spectrum, the only thing that was purchased after the fact was a 5 port Network Switch and a 50ft Cat6 Cable for the receipt printer that I wired in.

 

If it was all up to me alone I would have gotten SFF PC's that can be mounted using a VESA bracket to a monitor and have it all wired in, on top of an actual office printer that can be wired in instead of a cheap wireless home printer.

 

Trying to make the best of a rough situation without costing the company a ton of money to basically start over with all of our devices.

[intertan]

ISP equiment is garbage most of the time. Casual surfing the net and some netflix it should have no problem.

if you must use wifi consider trying better wifi equipment.

[princemc]

1 minute ago, intertan said:

ISP equiment is garbage most of the time. Casual surfing the net and some netflix it should have no problem.

if you must use wifi consider trying better wifi equipment.

I mean I'm sure there's a difference between their business class hardware and regular consumer hardware because we do have a business account and a "Business class" service w/modem. I figured that would be able to handle all of this stuff running at the same time. I'll try to either get some other devices when we remodel the store or try to get a better router that can handle heavier WiFi traffic. 

[intertan]

do you have the model # of the modem?

 

[Donut417]

32 minutes ago, princemc said:

I mean I'm sure there's a difference between their business class hardware and regular consumer hardware because we do have a business account and a "Business class" service w/modem. I figured that would be able to handle all of this stuff running at the same time. I'll try to either get some other devices when we remodel the store or try to get a better router that can handle heavier WiFi traffic. 

I highly doubt the equipment is much different. I mean, your running on the same network as an average user. The issue is modem router combos. Putting those two devices in a single box is just a bad idea all around. What you might need to look in to is a good access point. Something more business grade, that can handle a good number of devices. I dont have Charter Spectrum, but reading online leads me to believe they give SHIT support on customer owned modems. Im with Comcast, Comcast has a list of devices that WILL WORK, that they have TESTED, and provide FIRMWARE UPDATES for. While Comcast might blame customer owned modems for most issues, they do have great modem support. Charter more or less will allow them on their network, but they dont test any or provider any firmware updates. So your mileage may vary. 

 

If I were you the first thing I would look at, is how hot does the modem/router get? Just put your hand on it. If it feels really warm then try actively cooling it. Thats what I did for my router. I just put a laptop cooler under it and noticed it works a bit better as a result. Secondly I would look at disabling the AP in your current equipment and getting a better AP OR seeing about putting your current modem/router in bridge mode and buying a better router. 

[princemc]

3 hours ago, intertan said:

do you have the model # of the modem?

 

Ubee DDW36C

[bcguru9384]

11 minutes ago, princemc said:

Ubee DDW36C

web site says 8 ssid per radio with 3 radios

try setting up different ssid groups with different QoS rules each then during business hours have only biz ssid allowed to connect as this should reduce overheating the radio chips

[princemc]

3 hours ago, Donut417 said:

I highly doubt the equipment is much different. I mean, your running on the same network as an average user. The issue is modem router combos. Putting those two devices in a single box is just a bad idea all around. What you might need to look in to is a good access point. Something more business grade, that can handle a good number of devices. I dont have Charter Spectrum, but reading online leads me to believe they give SHIT support on customer owned modems. Im with Comcast, Comcast has a list of devices that WILL WORK, that they have TESTED, and provide FIRMWARE UPDATES for. While Comcast might blame customer owned modems for most issues, they do have great modem support. Charter more or less will allow them on their network, but they dont test any or provider any firmware updates. So your mileage may vary. 

 

If I were you the first thing I would look at, is how hot does the modem/router get? Just put your hand on it. If it feels really warm then try actively cooling it. Thats what I did for my router. I just put a laptop cooler under it and noticed it works a bit better as a result. Secondly I would look at disabling the AP in your current equipment and getting a better AP OR seeing about putting your current modem/router in bridge mode and buying a better router. 

I know all in one devices are getting way more common and are less efficient at each component contained inside. Having a separate Wireless AP, Modem, and Network Switch would most likely be ideal but it also costs a lot more. I can try getting a separate Wireless AP or a separate Wireless Router that can handle the increased traffic. That's lower on my list to try because of the cost factor. I want to exhaust as many options as I can with the hardware that I currently have but I don't know what I can really try since none of my other devices can be plugged in to the modem, the modem cannot be moved to a new location, and replacing all of the PC's + printers would cost a whole hell of a lot more than just getting a separate AP/ Wireless Router.

 

I did check heat output on my modem and it was radiating a bit of heat but I'm also in the Northern US where it's 3 degrees outside, and the network closet isn't actively heated, and has an external wall so it's probably somewhere between 50-60 Degrees Fahrenheit. The heat coming off of the modem is probably very noticeable considering the temperature difference of the air in the room. I definitely wouldn't say that the modem is hot though. Feels pretty much like any other router I've touched during operation. 

[princemc]

9 minutes ago, bcguru9384 said:

web site says 8 ssid per radio with 3 radios

try setting up different ssid groups with different QoS rules each then during business hours have only biz ssid allowed to connect as this should reduce overheating the radio chips

We actually only have 1 SSID. We have no guest network and we don't allow customers to connect to the WiFi. The only devices on the network are our business devices + 2 Smartphones, and my personal laptop. We have dual band WiFi under the same SSID so they're all connected to the same SSID but 4 devices are on the 2.4Ghz, and 4 devices are on the 5Ghz band. That doesn't seem like some crazy amount. I probably have a similar amount connected at home but I also have a separate wireless router attached to my bridged modem, and I have never had any issues like this with devices cutting out. I mean it's also a completely different ISP at home but it's DSL if that makes a difference.

[mynameisjuan]

4 hours ago, intertan said:

ISP equiment is garbage most of the time. Casual surfing the net and some netflix it should have no problem.

if you must use wifi consider trying better wifi equipment.

I hate when people say that because its false. 

 

@princemc

 

What is your connection speed? What type of area around in, mall, outlet, building far from the road? How many SSIDs do you see when you connect to wifi?

[princemc]

24 minutes ago, mynameisjuan said:

I hate when people say that because its false. 

 

@princemc

 

What is your connection speed? What type of area around in, mall, outlet, building far from the road? How many SSIDs do you see when you connect to wifi?

Not sure what our actual service package is but I just ran a speed test on my laptop and phone and got around 11.72Mbps Down, 1.2Mbps up. The building is right next to the road, and there are two other businesses in the building, however one is closed so I don't think they have their internet on anymore but I can't confirm. How many SSID's as in, how many neighboring networks are there, or how many are we broadcasting?

[mynameisjuan]

1 minute ago, princemc said:

Not sure what our actual service package is but I just ran a speed test on my laptop and phone and got around 11.72Mbps Down, 1.2Mbps up. The building is right next to the road, and there are two other businesses in the building, however one is closed so I don't think they have their internet on anymore but I can't confirm. How many SSID's as in, how many neighboring networks are there, or how many are we broadcasting?

So you have DSL. First of all that is a big part of the problem (I am a tier 3 DSL tech). The two chromecast are causing a majority of your issues, if they are 30-40 ft away from the wireless you will have even more issues that will affect every other device. 

 

DSL is also susceptible to heavy use causing the modem to retrain if the line is bad. Speed test running at 11.7 (if wireless) means you are on the farther end of the line. Farther you get more noise can affect stability and heavy use can compound CRC errors forcing a retrain which would cause the internet to drop for 30-60 secs. 

 

There is just too much variables in this situation to solved easily. If you remove the chromecast used for video you will see instant stability.  

[princemc]

54 minutes ago, bcguru9384 said:

web site says 8 ssid per radio with 3 radios

try setting up different ssid groups with different QoS rules each then during business hours have only biz ssid allowed to connect as this should reduce overheating the radio chips

I just found an option on my router's GUI that's called WMM. There was no description for what it does so I looked it up and it said to disable it if you experience signal loss and devices cutting out, so I did, reset my two chromecasts, disconnected my phone from the WiFi and now my Audio Chromecast is working fine for the time being but my other Chromecast "loses connection with the device" every 10-15 seconds.

[princemc]

13 minutes ago, mynameisjuan said:

So you have DSL. First of all that is a big part of the problem (I am a tier 3 DSL tech). The two chromecast are causing a majority of your issues, if they are 30-40 ft away from the wireless you will have even more issues that will affect every other device. 

 

DSL is also susceptible to heavy use causing the modem to retrain if the line is bad. Speed test running at 11.7 (if wireless) means you are on the farther end of the line. Farther you get more noise can affect stability and heavy use can compound CRC errors forcing a retrain which would cause the internet to drop for 30-60 secs. 

 

There is just too much variables in this situation to solved easily. If you remove the chromecast used for video you will see instant stability.  

It's definitely cable internet. Spectrum Modem with a Cable line running into it, not phone line. Not sure why the speeds are so slow but I'm pretty sure Spectrum doesn't even offer DSL.

 

The Audio Chromecast is 6 inches from my modem, and the Video Chromecast is probably about 6 feet away (through a wall) so there's no considerable distance except to my wireless printer in the back office but that thing is a POS so i don't really attribute it's issues to the network.

[Donut417]

1 hour ago, mynameisjuan said:

I hate when people say that because its false. 

Your the only one who feels that way. Every Comcast modem I had was shit. My friends Modem/Router Combo from Comcast would not allow port forwarding, and thats not even an isolated instance. Ive heard of a few people with that issue. Most of these shit boxes have the shittiest WiFi in the history of WiFi. Modem/Router Combos in general are utter shit. Why ISP's cant just supply a standard modem I dont fucking know, but they dont. They push these shit combo boxes and people end up having the shit experience. 

[bcguru9384]

4 hours ago, princemc said:

I just found an option on my router's GUI that's called WMM. There was no description for what it does so I looked it up and it said to disable it if you experience signal loss and devices cutting out, so I did, reset my two chromecasts, disconnected my phone from the WiFi and now my Audio Chromecast is working fine for the time being but my other Chromecast "loses connection with the device" every 10-15 seconds.

what firewall options are in modem?(screenshots if can) 

how is each device seen in modem(does there seem to be any conflicts(like both pulling same ip))

[mynameisjuan]

4 hours ago, princemc said:

It's definitely cable internet. Spectrum Modem with a Cable line running into it, not phone line. Not sure why the speeds are so slow but I'm pretty sure Spectrum doesn't even offer DSL.

 

The Audio Chromecast is 6 inches from my modem, and the Video Chromecast is probably about 6 feet away (through a wall) so there's no considerable distance except to my wireless printer in the back office but that thing is a POS so i don't really attribute it's issues to the network.

11.75/1.2 is an ADSL standard, I have never seen that offered in cable. If it is then that is a first. Also just cause a COAX goes into the modem doesnt mean its cable. DSL can be ran of the NID and there are modems that accept it. Those are pretty rare though. 

 

If your wireless printer is far out in a back office it can def cause problems for everything else. Wireless devices work of time slots, it a connection is low and needs to re transmit every other device has to wait their turn until the transmission is successful. I still suggest disconnecting the chromecast and possibly the printer for a day to see how it performs. 

 

4 hours ago, Donut417 said:

Your the only one who feels that way. Every Comcast modem I had was shit. My friends Modem/Router Combo from Comcast would not allow port forwarding, and thats not even an isolated instance. Ive heard of a few people with that issue. Most of these shit boxes have the shittiest WiFi in the history of WiFi. Modem/Router Combos in general are utter shit. Why ISP's cant just supply a standard modem I dont fucking know, but they dont. They push these shit combo boxes and people end up having the shit experience. 

 I only feel that way because its my job to test multiple models out before deploying. Even $19.95 routers do decent work. Yeah the cheap one cannot handle much in terms of number of devices. 

 

They dont allow port forwarding the same reason we do. Modem/router combos have remote management and im not spending my time going into your modem to open ports for you. If you want we can put the modem in bridged and you get your own modem and do what you want. Has nothing to do with the modem being shit. 

 

Shit wifi varies from device to device but in general most have the same signal. What people dont realize is wifi is two way, so their devices dont have shit for antennas so cannot send traffic back and then blame the combo. 

[Donut417]

55 minutes ago, mynameisjuan said:

11.75/1.2 is an ADSL standard, I have never seen that offered in cable. If it is then that is a first. Also just cause a COAX goes into the modem doesnt mean its cable. DSL can be ran of the NID and there are modems that accept it. Those are pretty rare though. 

 

If your wireless printer is far out in a back office it can def cause problems for everything else. Wireless devices work of time slots, it a connection is low and needs to re transmit every other device has to wait their turn until the transmission is successful. I still suggest disconnecting the chromecast and possibly the printer for a day to see how it performs. 

 

 I only feel that way because its my job to test multiple models out before deploying. Even $19.95 routers do decent work. Yeah the cheap one cannot handle much in terms of number of devices. 

 

They dont allow port forwarding the same reason we do. Modem/router combos have remote management and im not spending my time going into your modem to open ports for you. If you want we can put the modem in bridged and you get your own modem and do what you want. Has nothing to do with the modem being shit. 

 

Shit wifi varies from device to device but in general most have the same signal. What people dont realize is wifi is two way, so their devices dont have shit for antennas so cannot send traffic back and then blame the combo. 

Last I checked. Comcast is not the ones who "have to do port forwarding" you can do it thru the web interface. But even with the settings in place. It dont work. Sorry, but some people need to port forward. Just because they want to give people the "easy" experience, dont screw the techies who know what they are doing. This is why I love that I live in the US, because buy FCC mandate we are allowed to purchase our own modems. So I dont have to use those stupid gateways and I can use my own shit and configure it the way I need it configured and not the way the Comcast wants it configured. 

[MWaldhauer]

What we normally do for customers is go out and make a site survey with some special equipment to get a complete overview on how to deal with problems like these and then give a recommendation on a good networking solution for you.

 

But as a start i can recommend that you get a Unifi UAP-AC-PRO access point and put in your shop. This will do the job perfectly in most cases. If it needs to cover a large space, more than one is properbly required.

[mynameisjuan]

10 hours ago, Donut417 said:

Last I checked. Comcast is not the ones who "have to do port forwarding" you can do it thru the web interface. But even with the settings in place. It dont work. Sorry, but some people need to port forward. Just because they want to give people the "easy" experience, dont screw the techies who know what they are doing. This is why I love that I live in the US, because buy FCC mandate we are allowed to purchase our own modems. So I dont have to use those stupid gateways and I can use my own shit and configure it the way I need it configured and not the way the Comcast wants it configured. 

Im sorry but if a techie want to use port forwarding then why the fuck are they not buying their own router? Want port forwarding, put the modem in bridge and buy your own router. 99% of customers dont know what they are doing and the login accounts are permission locked to not allow changes to be made. 

 

Again, saying they are shit because port forwarding is a horrible argument. 

[princemc]

12 hours ago, mynameisjuan said:

11.75/1.2 is an ADSL standard, I have never seen that offered in cable. If it is then that is a first. Also just cause a COAX goes into the modem doesnt mean its cable. DSL can be ran of the NID and there are modems that accept it. Those are pretty rare though. 

 

If your wireless printer is far out in a back office it can def cause problems for everything else. Wireless devices work of time slots, it a connection is low and needs to re transmit every other device has to wait their turn until the transmission is successful. I still suggest disconnecting the chromecast and possibly the printer for a day to see how it performs. 

I was talking to my dad about this issue yesterday and he's been doing networking for probably 20 years now. He suggested changing the channel that our cordless phones run on and see if that helps. Unfortunately I don't see a channel switch on either of the cordless phones, or on either base for the phones so I don't think that's an option.

 

The wireless printer isn't too far away. ~20 feet but there's three walls between them so I know that can cause an issue as well. I'll try leaving the video chromecast off today and see what happens. I don't think I'll need the printer today (as if it works right anyways) so I'll try leaving that off as well unless I need it. 

[princemc]

12 hours ago, mynameisjuan said:

11.75/1.2 is an ADSL standard, I have never seen that offered in cable. If it is then that is a first. Also just cause a COAX goes into the modem doesnt mean its cable. DSL can be ran of the NID and there are modems that accept it. Those are pretty rare though. 

Still strange to me that it would be DSL considering it's Spectrum and as far as I knew all they offer is Cable, but stranger things have happened. 

[princemc]

1 hour ago, MWaldhauer said:

What we normally do for customers is go out and make a site survey with some special equipment to get a complete overview on how to deal with problems like these and then give a recommendation on a good networking solution for you.

 

But as a start i can recommend that you get a Unifi UAP-AC-PRO access point and put in your shop. This will do the job perfectly in most cases. If it needs to cover a large space, more than one is properbly required.

I'll try that out, if I can, once I exhaust all other possibilities that don't require spending money at the moment.