Storage Configuration Confusion

[rarifiedbovine]

Hi folks, 

 

I am very confused about optimal storage configurations nowadays, particularly given the introduction of two technologies: Optane and this VROC thing from ASUS that allows you to connect a virtual raid array of m.2 drives via PCIe 3.0.  Last time I built a computer, the conventional wisdom was for the fastest possible storage you get some nvme m.2 drives, or maybe a PCIe m.2 drive, and the next best thing were SSDs.  

 

What does one do now, assuming money is not a restriction?

[FuzzyLogic]

I'd go for a single Optane SSD over multiple m.2 SSDs.

[Himommies]

Still get a NVME PCIE drive(assuming money isn't a issue)

13 minutes ago, thegreengamers said:

I'd go for a single Optane SSD over multiple m.2 SSDs.

optane isn't actullay storage

it just makes HDD's faster

[rarifiedbovine]

Just now, Himommies said:

Still get a NVME PCIE drive(assuming money isn't a issue)

optane isn't actullay storage

it just makes HDD's faster

Hence my confusion.

 

Why PCIe SSD rather than m.2?

[Himommies]

1 minute ago, rarifiedbovine said:

Hence my confusion.

 

Why PCIe SSD rather than m.2?

There could be a bottleneck on M.2 

[Mira Yurizaki]

9 minutes ago, rarifiedbovine said:

Hence my confusion.

 

Why PCIe SSD rather than m.2?

M.2 is a form factor. It does not denote the speed at which a part operates at. If you're wondering about NVMe vs. PCIe on M.2, practically every PCIe M.2 SSD is an NVMe drive. NVMe uses PCIe as the physical layer on the communication stack.

 

The only way for any SSD to be faster than NVMe is if it's PCIe 3.0 x8 or higher.

Edited December 29, 2017 by M.Yurizaki

[unijab]

30 minutes ago, Himommies said:

Still get a NVME PCIE drive(assuming money isn't a issue)

optane isn't actullay storage

it just makes HDD's faster

 

optane is the current architecture name for the 3d xpoint technology

Optane has several products currently..

optane memory (only 16G and 32G..... M.2.... also only run in pcie3.0 x2 )

optane SSDs (currently 280G and 480G ... M.2 & riser ... pcie x4) ... rumors of 960G and 1.5T capacity coming 

optane DIMMS (not released... coming q1 or q2 2018... allegedly )

 

 

when I say M.2.. I mean the form factor.. the interface uses pcie

 

[rarifiedbovine]

2 hours ago, M.Yurizaki said:

M.2 is a form factor. It does not denote the speed at which a part operates at. If you're wondering about NVMe vs. PCIe on M.2, practically every PCIe M.2 SSD is an NVMe drive. NVMe uses PCIe as the physical layer on the communication stack.

 

The only way for any SSD to be faster than NVMe is if it's PCIe 3.0 x8 or higher.

Great, thanks!  So I guess my question is:

 

my motherboard allows for the following:

 

-a DIMM.2 slot into which you can plug in a little card that holds 2 m.2 drives 

-ASUS Hyper M.2 X16 Card that lets me plug in up to 4 m.2 drives

-a traditional m.2 slot

-the usual PCIe slots and SATA ports

 

How should i best utilize these various options, in what order, and how the heck does Optane play into it, if at all?

[unijab]

you only should consider optane if: (IMO)

 

1. you want the newest latest thing... just cuz

2. you have the need the for low queue depth performance and/or the need for 400K+ IOPS

[Mira Yurizaki]

2 minutes ago, rarifiedbovine said:

Great, thanks!  So I guess my question is:

 

my motherboard allows for the following:

 

-a DIMM.2 slot into which you can plug in a little card that holds 2 m.2 drives 

-ASUS Hyper M.2 X16 Card that lets me plug in up to 4 m.2 drives

-a traditional m.2 slot

-the usual PCIe slots and SATA ports

 

How should i best utilize these various options, in what order, and how the heck does Optane play into it, if at all?

It depends on what you're aiming for with storage. If you're trying to aim for maximum performance, then you need an HEDT setup that has multiple M.2 slots and enough lanes. Otherwise, the M.2 slots go through the chipset, which is limited to a maximum bandwidth of PCIe 3.0 x4. So unless you're doing only drive-to-drive transfers, RAID0 NVMe on a non HEDT board isn't going to work.

 

However if you have no use case that actually needs storage performance, then there's no point in getting anything faster than SATA SSDs. Application loading barely improves going from SATA SSD to NVMe/PCIe SSD.

 

Optane is used as a cache drive. While it's pretty fast, the system has to learn what files you access a lot of the time. Which means the performance benefits it can give you aren't immediate. Also again, application loading basically flat lines after SATA speeds.

[unijab]

1 minute ago, M.Yurizaki said:

\

Optane is used as a cache drive. While it's pretty fast, the system has to learn what files you access a lot of the time. Which means the performance benefits it can give you aren't immediate. Also again, application loading basically flat lines after SATA speeds.

 

This only applies to the optane memory modules... not the optane SSDs

[Mira Yurizaki]

1 minute ago, unijab said:

 

This only applies to the optane memory modules... not the optane SSDs

Oh, well either way, it's not worth buying it.

[rarifiedbovine]

8 hours ago, M.Yurizaki said:

It depends on what you're aiming for with storage. If you're trying to aim for maximum performance, then you need an HEDT setup that has multiple M.2 slots and enough lanes. Otherwise, the M.2 slots go through the chipset, which is limited to a maximum bandwidth of PCIe 3.0 x4. So unless you're doing only drive-to-drive transfers, RAID0 NVMe on a non HEDT board isn't going to work.

 

However if you have no use case that actually needs storage performance, then there's no point in getting anything faster than SATA SSDs. Application loading barely improves going from SATA SSD to NVMe/PCIe SSD.

 

Optane is used as a cache drive. While it's pretty fast, the system has to learn what files you access a lot of the time. Which means the performance benefits it can give you aren't immediate. Also again, application loading basically flat lines after SATA speeds.

Sorry, can you decipher HEDT?

[Mira Yurizaki]

5 hours ago, rarifiedbovine said:

Sorry, can you decipher HEDT?

High-end desktop.

[FuzzyLogic]

17 hours ago, Himommies said:

 

optane isn't actullay storage

it just makes HDD's faster

Huh. There was a person who told me that Intel made Optane cache and Optane SSDs a while ago, guess they were wrong.

[Himommies]

27 minutes ago, thegreengamers said:

Huh. There was a person who told me that Intel made Optane cache and Optane SSDs a while ago, guess they were wrong.

They do make Optane Storage but they are just regualar Sata SSD's

[rarifiedbovine]

3 hours ago, M.Yurizaki said:

High-end desktop.

Hm.  What's an HEDT board, then?  

 

[Mira Yurizaki]

1 minute ago, rarifiedbovine said:

Hm.  What's an HEDT board, then? 

Anything from Intel's X chipset series or AMD's X399 (at the moment)

[Mira Yurizaki]

2 hours ago, Himommies said:

They do make Optane Storage but they are just regualar Sata SSD's

https://www.anandtech.com/show/11953/the-intel-optane-ssd-900p-review

 

They made a PCIe version.

[unijab]

2 hours ago, Himommies said:

They do make Optane Storage but they are just regualar Sata SSD's

Optane ssds are not sata drives.

 

[rarifiedbovine]

On 12/30/2017 at 10:30 AM, M.Yurizaki said:

Anything from Intel's X chipset series or AMD's X399 (at the moment)

Ok, let’s say I have one of those.  What is the optimal storage configuration for a computer that does games, streaming, and video editing?

[Mira Yurizaki]

10 minutes ago, rarifiedbovine said:

Ok, let’s say I have one of those.  What is the optimal storage configuration for a computer that does games, streaming, and video editing?

If it were me, I'd actually do some testing for those use cases to see how much storage bandwidth is actually needed for each scenario and plan accordingly. I don't believe in a "one size fits all" category unless money is no object. At which case, just fill the machine with as many PCIe SSDs as you possibly can.

[rarifiedbovine]

1 hour ago, M.Yurizaki said:

If it were me, I'd actually do some testing for those use cases to see how much storage bandwidth is actually needed for each scenario and plan accordingly. I don't believe in a "one size fits all" category unless money is no object. At which case, just fill the machine with as many PCIe SSDs as you possibly can.

So when you say PCIe SSDs, you mean SSDs that go in the PCIe slots like where video cards go, rather than the dedicated m.2 slots elsewhere on the board?  Also, what of this ability on my board to use a dimm slot loaded with m.2 drives?

 

And does an Optane cache not help out if you're using non-SATA drives?  Sounds like that might be the case.

 

Thanks so much for the help so far!

[Mira Yurizaki]

2 hours ago, rarifiedbovine said:

So when you say PCIe SSDs, you mean SSDs that go in the PCIe slots like where video cards go, rather than the dedicated m.2 slots elsewhere on the board?

I mean any SSD that uses PCIe as the interface, be it in a PCIe slot or M.2 one.

Quote

 Also, what of this ability on my board to use a dimm slot loaded with m.2 drives?

That's an ASUS only feature and the DIMM slot is not a real RAM slot. It's just an M.2 slot that needs the DIMM.2 card to work.

Quote

And does an Optane cache not help out if you're using non-SATA drives?  Sounds like that might be the case.

It won't help, since the performance difference won't be appreciable enough.

 

[rarifiedbovine]

3 minutes ago, M.Yurizaki said:

I mean any SSD that uses PCIe as the interface, be it in a PCIe slot or M.2 one.

That's an ASUS only feature and the DIMM slot is not a real RAM slot. It's just an M.2 slot that needs the DIMM.2 card to work.

It won't help, since the performance difference won't be appreciable enough.

 

Got it.  So is that DIMM slot about the same as a PCIe interface in terms of bandwidth?