220% duty imposed on U.S. bound Bombarier C Series Jets

[dfsdfgfkjsefoiqzemnd]

6 minutes ago, Blind Krill 796 said:

Imagine AMD getting a huge contract to build some computers and then NVIDIA steps in and contests the contract.  This is the same thing.

Except AMD and Nvidia are actually tech companies.

 

If this is tech-related, I can start a thread here too to complain that I have to pay 21% taxes on my car whereas in other countries it may be 15%.   After all the car has electronics in it too. 

[Blind Krill 796]

8 minutes ago, Captain Chaos said:

Except AMD and Nvidia are actually tech companies.

 

If this is tech-related, I can start a thread here too to complain that I have to pay 21% taxes on my car whereas in other countries it may be 15%.   After all the car has electronics in it too. 

Okay, we'll try again. Tesla starts getting taxed a bunch and gets shut down.  Is this not tech news?

[dizmo]

1 hour ago, Blind Krill 796 said:

Rafale, Gripen, eurofighter typhoon.  The Typhoon was primarily designed with air superiority in mind and is still in its infancy with transitioning to a multi-role fighter (much more comparable to an F-22). Both the Gripen and Typhoon have no carrier capability.  The Rafale uses a single seat variation for carrier operations and has limited capability compared to the F-18. 

I don't really see carrier capabilities being a big selling point for Canada. 

29 minutes ago, Blind Krill 796 said:

Imagine AMD getting a huge contract to build some computers and then NVIDIA steps in and contests the contract.  This is the same thing.  

Not really. Those are tech companies, aircraft companies, not so much. Same with Tesla, although it usually gets a pass because Musk. 

[givingtnt]

Just now, dizmo said:

I don't really see carrier capabilities being a big selling point for Canada. 

Not really. Those are tech companies, aircraft companies, not so much. Same with Tesla, although it usually gets a pass because Musk. 

there's more technoligies in aircrafts than tesla's cars.
way more. its not because its strictly not electronics and computers that its not technology.

[PlayStation 2]

Lemme get this straight: Bombardier pulled some dumb bullshit and the only loser here is Delta?

[givingtnt]

Just now, Dan Castellaneta said:

Lemme get this straight: Bombardier pulled some dumb bullshit and the only loser here is Delta?

and bombardier in the long run
and boeing in the long run.

[Taf the Ghost]

14 minutes ago, Blind Krill 796 said:

Okay, we'll try again. Tesla starts getting taxed a bunch and gets shut down.  Is this not tech news?

This is more Tech News because it tells us a lot of things to come.

 

A lot of countries have been able to get away with government subsides and then out "compete" USA-based competitors. The fact there is now an Administration in the USA that will proactively protect its industries in this regard is a big change. It also means China is next. That could get really messy.

[handymanshandle]

1 hour ago, Blind Krill 796 said:

Sukhoi S-35 (Russian made) which the Canadians would have a fun time buying.

I would find it incredibly hilarious if they did that. My guess is that they'll either try to commission Bombardier or Airbus to do it. Hell maybe Embraer.

 

I kinda thought that the Bombardier CSeries was pretty nifty looking aircraft. I know if Bombardier wanted to move its official home to the US, that Boeing would not be pleased one bit. But honestly as far as large aircraft manufacturers in the US goes they are the only ones. A little competition wouldn't hurt them. I bet Boeing wasn't too happy when Airbus was making a plant down in Mobile, AL.

[Blind Krill 796]

3 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

This is more Tech News because it tells us a lot of things to come.

 

A lot of countries have been able to get away with government subsides and then out "compete" USA-based competitors. The fact there is now an Administration in the USA that will proactively protect its industries in this regard is a big change. It also means China is next. That could get really messy.

I don't think this has much to do with the US administration.  As far as I am aware, the Department of Commerce is operating based upon their standard set of rules and has had no direction from the administration given to them.

[givingtnt]

2 minutes ago, wcreek said:

I would find it incredibly hilarious if they did that. My guess is that they'll either try to commission Bombardier or Airbus to do it. Hell maybe Embraer.

 

I kinda thought that the Bombardier CSeries was pretty nifty looking aircraft. I know if Bombardier wanted to move its official home to the US, that Boeing would not be pleased one bit. But honestly as far as large aircraft manufacturers in the US goes they are the only ones. A little competition wouldn't hurt them. I bet Boeing wasn't too happy when Airbus was making a plant down in Mobile, AL.

or, airlines could move their office to another country, and avoid taxes

[givingtnt]

Just now, Blind Krill 796 said:

I don't think this has much to do with the US administration.  As far as I am aware, the Department of Commerce is operating based upon their standard set of rules and has had no direction from the administration given to them.

the tax they implemented is OVER the demand of Boeing !

[Taf the Ghost]

2 minutes ago, givingtnt said:

and bombardier in the long run
and boeing in the long run.

Canada is likely to be the long-term loser in this entire play. Well, firstly, the Canadian tax payer, then the country in general. NAFTA is currently being renegotiated, by which I mean "it ends by the end of the year". Canada is in a generally weak position, which means the Trump Admin is going to run circles around when the bilateral trade deal gets started.

[givingtnt]

Just now, Taf the Ghost said:

Canada is likely to be the long-term loser in this entire play. Well, firstly, the Canadian tax payer, then the country in general. NAFTA is currently being renegotiated, by which I mean "it ends by the end of the year". Canada is in a generally weak position, which means the Trump Admin is going to run circles around when the bilateral trade deal gets started.

its gonna hurt the us too. in other fields tho.

[Blind Krill 796]

1 minute ago, givingtnt said:

the tax they implemented is OVER the demand of Boeing !

Well if illegal subsidies were given they would incur a penalty.  Again, this is a preliminary decision that may change based upon the findings but Bombardier isn't cooperating which doesn't look good for them.

[Taf the Ghost]

2 minutes ago, Blind Krill 796 said:

I don't think this has much to do with the US administration.  As far as I am aware, the Department of Commerce is operating based upon their standard set of rules and has had no direction from the administration given to them.

Policies & Laws have to be enforced. Without bridging over into politics, too much, the "enforced" part is much of the reason that US politics has changed so much. A Law is just a piece of paper if no one does what it says. For far too long, preventing another country from ruining a US-based industry required either having a protected monopoly or enough money to out-bid for Congressmen. 

[givingtnt]

1 minute ago, Blind Krill 796 said:

Well if illegal subsidies were given they would incur a penalty.  Again, this is a preliminary decision that may change based upon the findings but Bombardier isn't cooperating which doesn't look good for them.

why would they ? they are competitors

[handymanshandle]

1 minute ago, givingtnt said:

its gonna hurt the us too. in other fields tho.

So the most logical thing is for Trudeau to come to his senses, give up and make Canada the 51st state now. /s

[Taf the Ghost]

4 minutes ago, givingtnt said:

its gonna hurt the us too. in other fields tho.

Let's be really honest: it's going to be messy, bad or even disastrous for many sectors.

 

NAFTA pretty much screwed all 3 countries involved. But the problem, 20 years on, is that all of the sub-fields and smaller industries adjusted around the Reality not the Promise. Changing the "rules" is going to cause dislocations, disarray and a whole host of other issues. Doesn't mean that it shouldn't happen (bad deals are bad deals, even if everyone is adjusted to them), but there's going to be some significant costs until everyone gets readjusted.

[Taf the Ghost]

3 minutes ago, wcreek said:

So the most logical thing is for Trudeau to come to his senses, give up and make Canada the 51st state now. /s

Is it Alberta or Ontario that threatens to apply to the Union about every other election cycle?

[handymanshandle]

Anyways, a UAS Operator sounds like a very interesting job at least as far as a job like that might go. 

 

[Blind Krill 796]

1 minute ago, givingtnt said:

why would they ? they are competitors

It doesn't have so much to do with Boeing Vs. Bombardier.  The penalties would be enacted by the department of commerce for receiving illegal subsidies.  The key word being illegal. Boeing will have no say in the actual penalty amount as that is the job of the DOC to decide. 

[Sauron]

1 hour ago, Blind Krill 796 said:

Imagine AMD getting a huge contract to build some computers and then NVIDIA steps in and contests the contract.  This is the same thing.  

It's more like AMD getting massive contributions from the government, allowing them to sell their stuff at a loss at a ridiculously low price, and nvidia complaining it's not fair. And they would be right.

[TopDollar]

Bombardier trying to enter a market dominated primarily by Boeing was always an interesting idea. Although I suppose it makes sense with ETOPS ratings getting better and the industry as a whole moving more towards medium sized aircraft. The market for small aircraft such as the CRJs may very well be dwindling.

[TheRandomness]

-Thread moved to General Discussion. Tbh it isn't really tech news.

[thorhammerz]

2 hours ago, Taf the Ghost said:

Is it Alberta or Ontario that threatens to apply to the Union about every other election cycle?

Quebec makes some whiny noises about independence (or "sovereignty"/"sovereignty-association"/or whatever is the word-de-jour) in an effort to (successfully) wring more transfer-funds (officially known as "equalization payments") from the federal government. A referendum may used as hot coals under the federal government's feet, as necessary.

 

But they (Quebec gov't) knows (and the federal government knows) that Quebec as an independent country has no chance in hell of maintaining its current standard of living. You think America is giving Canada a hard time with trade? Guess how it'll treat a renegade province with only 20% GDP of the current Canada; and the rest of Canada is unlikely to give much goodwill to a province that's been a perpetual pain the rear for the better part of 2 centuries. So they don't really try that hard.

 

Now the transfer funds were (in the past) by and large paid by Alberta/British Columbia/Ontario. However, Ontario is slowly entering what will be a long and protracted death spiral due partially to governmental corruption & mismanagement, but more significantly by demographic shifts (lots of baby boomers retiring... retired people no longer pay large income taxes... retired people no longer park their savings into growth-yielding investments but rather static/safe holdings such as government bonds... retired people also require government spending on pensions, healthcare... you get the idea by now: retired people costs the government a lot of money, while no longer providing the same amount of income taxes they did while working).

 

In short, central (and western) Canada is going to foot the country's (large) equalization payment bills (which by the way, are pegged to projected and also over-estimated future oil prices), along with (because their proportion of retired people isn't going to increase as sharply) an increasing share of the income taxes (if they can... oil prices aren't going to rebound anytime soon in North America, you can thank shale for that), but aren't getting much back in either spending/development (the other provinces will give Alberta the middle finger anytime an East/West pipeline is mentioned) or political power (due to population distribution, Ontario/Quebec are what's most important from a vote perspective).

 

If Alberta were to join the U.S.A. then they no longer have to worry about giving vastly more to the national government than they get back, and they don't have to worry about securing markets for their oil (pipelines to the mainland 48 will now be a domestic issue... that's not subject to the whims of the Presidential administration-de-jour and its reliance on environmentalists for votes), along with all the other goodies that come with being part of the U.S. (unfettered access to American infrastructure, supply chains, and markets for all sectors).

 

By the way (courtesy of Quebec's efforts culminating in the Clarity Act): secession from the Confederation of Canada is LEGAL.