220% duty imposed on U.S. bound Bombarier C Series Jets

[givingtnt]

 

Source : http://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4308590

Yesterday, the news broke out of a new tax for bombardier. 220% import taxes on their new CSeries aircrafts

 

This is after Boeing requested a tax to protect its own market (Delta Airlines)

Funny how Delta wasn't provided with a Boring aircraft to look at before buying.

Perhaps a future market (possibly the next aircraft Bombardier is curre tly developping) is at stakes here. Nontheless, its a big hit for the whole canadian aviation industry. 

 

Quote

The U.S. Department of Commerce has clobbered aerospace giant Bombardier with a hefty 220 per cent countervailing duty on the sale of its CS100 commercial jets to a U.S. airline following a trade complaint from an American rival.

 

Oh, and did I mention the RCAF wanted to buy F-18 Superhornets ? A Boeing aircraft ?

Funny how mr Trudeau changed his mind on that.. for now...

 

This is not only an attack on the canadian aviation industry but also an attack on the developement of new aircraft technologies

[AlTech]

.

 

Sometimes I wonder why governments even exist.

 

 

[Blind Krill 796]

This whole thing originated because Bombardier was getting absurd subsidies to the point where they could sell aircraft below cost.  Of course that is going to create an unfair advantage for them and Boeing has the right to contest that.  Plus, the pending sale was worth like 5 billion which isn't pocket change.  This is fairly normal in the aerospace and aviation industry.   Regardless, Delta has not withdrawn the sale and all this does is reduce the profit margin the company will make on the aircraft or will increase the cost to Delta.

 

As to the F-18, a similar aircraft from another manufacturer doesn't really exist.  It outperforms just about everything with the exception of possibly the Sukhoi S-35 (Russian made) which the Canadians would have a fun time buying.

[givingtnt]

3 minutes ago, Blind Krill 796 said:

This whole thing originated because Bombardier was getting absurd subsidies to the point where they could sell aircraft below cost.  Of course that is going to create an unfair advantage for them and Boeing has the right to contest that.  Plus, the pending sale was worth like 5 billion which isn't pocket change.  This is fairly normal in the aerospace and aviation industry.   Regardless, Delta has not withdrawn the sale and all this does is reduce the profit margin the company will make on the aircraft or will increase the cost to Delta.

 

As to the F-18, a similar aircraft from another manufacturer doesn't really exist.  It outperforms just about everything with the exception of possibly the Sukhoi S-35 (Russian made) which the Canadians would have a fun time buying.

1- Boeing didn't provide Delta with an aircraft of their own.

2- ever looked at european fighter jets ?
Raffal, Gripen.... eurofighter typhoon...
the main thing is that it needs 2 engines. the superhornet is a good buy because we already have all the training and tools.
you're being ridiculus if you think there is no other aircraft like it. there are tons.

[Blind Krill 796]

Rafale, Gripen, eurofighter typhoon.  The Typhoon was primarily designed with air superiority in mind and is still in its infancy with transitioning to a multi-role fighter (much more comparable to an F-22). Both the Gripen and Typhoon have no carrier capability.  The Rafale uses a single seat variation for carrier operations and has limited capability compared to the F-18. 

 

So really they could go with a Rafale, but it costs 16 million more per unit.  Is it worth it?

[Sniperfox47]

35 minutes ago, Blind Krill 796 said:

This whole thing originated because Bombardier was getting absurd subsidies to the point where they could sell aircraft below cost. 

Yeah, because Boeing has never received government money. /s

 

Creation of a new aircraft model is, in some cases, a multi billion dollar process. The "subsidy" as Boeing describes it is fairly industry standard in the aerospace world.

 

Not to mention that everyone keeps quoting this "below cost" line but nobody seems to provide any evidence to support it... If you can give some actual data I'll take that back, but so far nobody's provided anything tangible.

 

2 minutes ago, Blind Krill 796 said:

So really they could go with a Rafale, but it costs 16 million more per unit.  Is it worth it?

If it means not supporting a company who's abusing the system to try and stifle our countries competition? Maybe.

[GoodBytes]

The real problem is that Bombardier screwed EVERYONE.

They went and do a theater act saying that they need to close down their operation in Quebec because they are not price competitive. That is several thousands of jobs. Massive for the province. They were asking multiple billions of dollars to "save the company". Quebec (who really needs the money for other things to server the population like improving its heath care service, which give bad image towards the whole Canada) and Canada because they would also be impacting hugely (this is like if Microsoft close down the next day. The impact is massive economy wise, and job number loss would be insane). So the Canadian government has no choice to cave in as well for the company demands. So billions was given to them.

 

So ok, billions was given to the company to be saved. And instead of restructuring, re-work their managerial layers, start better managing their spending.... they took that money to sell to Delta air lines planes at a big loss, and did no restructuring or anything as they said they would.

 

So, now, the US who is protecting its aerospace industry is of course mad about this. So, of course they'll add ridiculous import tax. In the end, everyone is screwed over, including Delta who is stuck with the import fees. (Planes are not something where you go back to the store to cancel your order or return them. A contract was sign. Although, Delta can take Bombardier to court afterwards).

[Blind Krill 796]

Well of course subsidies are fairly standard, especially if the aircraft is incorporating new technology to benefit the environment, but limits do exist on subsidies.  There would be no issue if the limits of the subsidies (pretty sure this is what trade agreements are for) were not allegedly exceeded.  In this case, I suspect that they found issues in the amount of subsidies provided if they are proposing a 220% tax.  

 

Another point to mention is that pretty much every large contract ever awarded has been contested in some way.  

[linustouchtips]

canada makes planes 

[givingtnt]

3 minutes ago, linustouchtips said:

canada makes planes 

the aviation industry is very important here

Bombardier
Bell Helicopter
Pratt & Witney
RollsRoyce

hell, even Lockheed Martin has a thing here.
over 50 major companies making parts for aircrafts around the world. (wheels, wings, avionics....)
we have colleges just for aviation stuff.

[dfsdfgfkjsefoiqzemnd]

How is this TECH news? 

[Blind Krill 796]

Just now, givingtnt said:

the aviation industry is very important here

Bombardier
Bell Helicopter
Pratt & Witney
RollsRoyce
over 50 major companies making parts for aircrafts around the world. (wheels, wings, avionics....)
we have colleges just for aviation stuff.

It's important here too.  I went to a US college just for aviation stuff....

[givingtnt]

Just now, Captain Chaos said:

And how is this TECH news? 

idk, governements blocking the advancement of aircraft technologies by providing a 220% tax import in the us ?
how do you expect bombardier to sell anything in the us in the future ?

[Sauron]

 

What? You can't see Bombardier? That's because it's irrelevant in the big picture (haha, puns). As it probably should be if the only reason it still exists is a massive save from the government.

[givingtnt]

1 minute ago, Blind Krill 796 said:

It's important here too.  I went to a US college just for aviation stuff....

never said it wasn't.

obviously you have Boeing, Lockheed Martin and others.

[linustouchtips]

Just now, givingtnt said:

the aviation industry is very important here

Bombardier
Bell Helicopter
Pratt & Witney
RollsRoyce
over 50 major companies making parts for aircrafts around the world. (wheels, wings, avionics....)
we have colleges just for aviation stuff.

canada makes aviation stuff for the brits & eu 

boeing us planes have ge engines 

boeing uk planes got rollsroyce 

this probably made all of europe upset too didnt it 

[dfsdfgfkjsefoiqzemnd]

Just now, givingtnt said:

how do you expect bombardier to sell anything in the us in the future ?

Still not tech news. 

[Blind Krill 796]

2 minutes ago, givingtnt said:

how do you expect bombardier to sell anything in the us in the future ?

They still can.  Just probably not this plane.

[givingtnt]

Just now, Sauron said:

 

What? You can't see Bombardier? That's because it's irrelevant in the big picture. As it probably should be if the only reason it still exists is a massive save from the government.

how so ?
boeing didn't even provide delta with an aircraft that they were looking for

bombardier makes smaller jets. not big airliners.  you're point is more than invalid and you have no evidence to show.

[givingtnt]

1 minute ago, Captain Chaos said:

Still not tech news. 

k

[Blind Krill 796]

Just now, Captain Chaos said:

Still not tech news. 

Aircraft=Tech

[dfsdfgfkjsefoiqzemnd]

1 minute ago, Blind Krill 796 said:

Aircraft=Tech

I would agree if the topic was about the on-board systems or something similar.  However this is purely about international trading and policies. 

[givingtnt]

Just now, Captain Chaos said:

I would agree if the topic was about the on-board systems or something similar.  However this is purely about international trading and policies. 

Thats because you don't see the bigger picture.

[Blind Krill 796]

Just now, Captain Chaos said:

I would agree if the topic was about the on-board systems or something similar.  However this is purely about international trading and policies. 

Imagine AMD getting a huge contract to build some computers and then NVIDIA steps in and contests the contract.  This is the same thing.  

[Tataffe]

I'm certain that the final word has long not been said in this conflict. Expect those 220 % to not become a real thing.