PSU Fan

[Bruno_A]

Hi, about a week ago, I posted about a PSU I bought that I broke the fan when cleaning it. Basically I asked if there would be any performance problems or any issues at all by using a case fan temporarily and plugging into a fan header on my motherboard, which is exactly what I did and it performs with no issues at all, but, this was a temporary fix untill I could find a proper 2-pin for a replacement, although, I can't seem to find one that's exactly the same, so I guess I'll replace it with any other fan (maybe the one that's currently installed on it), but, I would like to know more about it so I can avoid a situation like this one. As you can see in the video, the guy replaced the PSU fan with a noctua fan, turning it into a 2-pin connector, but then the PSU wasn't able to make the fan spin. Is this because that noctua fan outputs more amps than the stock PSU fan? Also, is there any suggestions for a silent fan I could use to turn it into a 2-pin connector for my PSU?

 

Many thanks, Bruno.

[Lord Nicoll]

2 minutes ago, bruny06 said:

Hi, about a week ago, I posted about a PSU I bought that I broke the fan when cleaning it. Basically I asked if there would be any performance problems or any issues at all by using a case fan temporarily and plugging into a fan header on my motherboard, which is exactly what I did and it performs with no issues at all, but, this was a temporary fix untill I could find a proper 2-pin for a replacement, although, I can't seem to find one that's exactly the same, so I guess I'll replace it with any other fan (maybe the one that's currently installed on it), but, I would like to know more about it so I can avoid a situation like this one. As you can see in the video, the guy replaced the PSU fan with a noctua fan, turning it into a 2-pin connector, but then the PSU wasn't able to make the fan spin. Is this because that noctua fan outputs more amps than the stock PSU fan? Also, is there any suggestions for a silent fan I could use to turn it into a 2-pin connector for my PSU?

 

Many thanks, Bruno.

once they're the same size and the 0v and 12v are connected right it should work, use a 3 pin fan though, no point in going out and buying a PWM fan to just ignore that bit (any fan will work off just two pins, but make sure it's 12v and not 5v, using a 12v on a 5v output won't spin it, and 12v on a 5v fan will kill it) 

[Cameron K]

Noctua fans are different than most standard fans (see link). It may be that your psu cannot output the power necessary to start the fan. Try a normal 120mm case fan from someone other than noctua or be quiet.

http://noctua.at/en/three-phase-motor

[Bruno_A]

5 minutes ago, Cameron K said:

Noctua fans are different than most standard fans (see link). It may be that your psu cannot output the power necessary to start the fan. Try a normal 120mm case fan from someone other than noctua or be quiet.

http://noctua.at/en/three-phase-motor

Would an Arctic do it?

[manikyath]

16 minutes ago, Lord Nicoll said:

using a 12v on a 5v output won't spin it

it is for most brands *just enough* to get thkngs going, or *just not enough*.

11 minutes ago, Cameron K said:

Noctua fans are different than most standard fans (see link). It may be that your psu cannot output the power necessary to start the fan. Try a normal 120mm case fan from someone other than noctua or be quiet.

http://noctua.at/en/three-phase-motor

their motor tech changes nothing about the fact it takes +12v input

[Cameron K]

4 minutes ago, bruny06 said:

Would an Arctic do it?

As long as its a standard two phase is think so. I doubt it would hurt in the worst case I did this once with a coolermaster power supply and a nzxt 120mm I had laying around

[manikyath]

5 minutes ago, bruny06 said:

Would an Arctic do it?

i'd say buy some random cheapo fan to test with, that way its no big loss if you kill it, and once you have found the propper way of doing it, you can "upgrade" towards a higher quality product without fear of breaking it.

[Cameron K]

Just now, manikyath said:

it is for most brands *just enough* to get thkngs going, or *just not enough*.

their motor tech changes nothing about the fact it takes +12v input

No but the amperage required to start a three phase motor is much higher than a two phase. I don't know how much that matters with this small a motor but that's the only reason I can think of it wouldn't work.

[manikyath]

3 minutes ago, Cameron K said:

No but the amperage required to start a three phase motor is much higher than a two phase. I don't know how much that matters with this small a motor but that's the only reason I can think of it wouldn't work.

eh, i'd be surprised if that would make the difference, compared to the motor stresses piled up dust or worn out bearings can give you.

[Stefan Payne]

Guys, PSU fans are no joke!
If you mess it up, you can burn down your house, you can die and also kill the PC.

You MUST NOT EVER just change it without thinking about specifications!

 

There are many different types of 120x25mm fans! Most Retail are medium rpm with up to 1500rpm, but for PSU you might need 2200rpm and more!

 

 

2 hours ago, bruny06 said:

if there would be any performance problems or any issues at all by using a case fan temporarily and plugging into a fan header on my motherboard,

Oh dear oh dear...

There really is nothing I can say about that that wouldn't be insulting...

 

What you did here is just dumb and reminds me about that story:

http://www.kctv5.com/story/19767067/teen-electrocuted-while

 

Wanna end up like that?!
Kinda sounds like it...

 

Also what PSU do you have?
 Is it that cheap VS450?!
 

Why would you fiddle with the fan when a good fan cost about half the PSU? Why not get another PSU??
 

 

2 hours ago, bruny06 said:

which is exactly what I did and it performs with no issues at all,

Be happy that neither your house burned down nor the PSU killed the PC or you due to overheating...

Some people said that some components desoldered itself in some older units.

And most power components are specified up to 175°C...

And the insulation in the transformer can melt, short out and the PSU can catch on fire...

 

2 hours ago, bruny06 said:

but, this was a temporary fix untill I could find a proper 2-pin for a replacement, although, I can't seem to find one that's exactly the same, so I guess I'll replace it with any other fan (maybe the one that's currently installed on it), but, I would like to know more about it so I can avoid a situation like this one. As you can see in the video, the guy replaced the PSU fan with a noctua fan, turning it into a 2-pin connector, but then the PSU wasn't able to make the fan spin. Is this because that noctua fan outputs more amps than the stock PSU fan? Also, is there any suggestions for a silent fan I could use to turn it into a 2-pin connector for my PSU?

 

Many thanks, Bruno.

1. What you are doing and he is doing is just stupid.

 

2. You MUST NOT change the fan in a PSU with any other.

3. replacing the fan never ever makes sense. Because for normal failures you have the manufacturers Warranty. For other instances, it just makes sense to replace the PSU

4. It doesn't spin because of Voltage and here we are again at the point that it was the wrong fan for this. And it is only worth thinking about if you have a high quality PSU that doesn't have any warranty no more - you do not have that!!
You don't have a high quality PSU...

 

 

You should get a new PSU, you destroyed the one you have now, you should replace it and not fiddle with it.

Especially if you have absolutely no idea what you are doing as you really have not...

[Bruno_A]

18 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

You MUST NOT EVER just change it without thinking about specifications!

I did some research after posting that previous topic, and before replacing the fan, I confirmed that the fan I broke was a 1650rpm fan from Yate Loon, and the fan I replaced it with is a 1200 rpm fan, which I knew could be an issue but that's the best I could do at that point. So, as I replaced the fan with a slower one, I checked if the PSU was running hot and it wasn't, even when gaming, but I'm still getting a replacement. I found a website that sells 3-pin versions of the same fan I had on the PSU, so I might be buying one and switch the connector for a 2-pin one, but I'll only be buying the same fan if I don't find a suitable and quieter option. 

18 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

Why would you fiddle with the fan when a good fan cost about half the PSU? Why not get another PSU??

 

I can get an exact replacement for less than £10, a new good PSU goes for £50 or more. I think the £10 sounds more appealing, especially for someone on a low budget, like me, as I'm currently in college and don't have a job yet.

18 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

Be happy that neither your house burned down nor the PSU killed the PC or you due to overheating...

Some people said that some components desoldered itself in some older units.

And most power components are specified up to 175°C...

And the insulation in the transformer can melt, short out and the PSU can catch on fire...

Let's not exaggerate, the PSU runs cold when doing normal stuff such as browsing or watching YouTube and runs warm when gaming, not hot, not extra hot, just warm, even though with 450RPM less.

18 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

Oh dear oh dear...

There really is nothing I can say about that that wouldn't be insulting...

 

What you did here is just dumb and reminds me about that story:

http://www.kctv5.com/story/19767067/teen-electrocuted-while

 

Wanna end up like that?!
Kinda sounds like it...

I was just as careful when I was handling the PSU as I am when I handle with any other component, so I made sure I didn't touch any capacitor or anything like that.

 

Anyway, thank you for your reply. I understand your point on getting a new PSU, so please try to understand my situation. My VS450 might not be the best thing ever, but as I'm studying and don't have a part-time job yet, I can't really buy a better one, so this one will have to do for now and is definitely a better option over my previous 1:life ps jet 600W PSU. 

[Stefan Payne]

4 hours ago, bruny06 said:

I can get an exact replacement for less than £10, a new good PSU goes for £50 or more. I think the £10 sounds more appealing, especially for someone on a low budget, like me, as I'm currently in college and don't have a job yet.

No, around 40 Pounds for a good one, like this:

https://skinflint.co.uk/be-quiet-pure-power-10-400w-atx-2-4-bn272-a1564535.html?hloc=uk (good fan, decent electronics, way better than yours)

https://skinflint.co.uk/xilence-performance-a-series-530w-atx-2-4-xp530r8-xn061-a1380623.html?hloc=uk (cheap, although a bit expansive in the UK, here in G it's about 45€)

 

And yours is in the mid 30s anyway:
https://skinflint.co.uk/corsair-vs-series-vs450-rev-2-0-450w-atx-2-31-cp-9020096-eu-a1331093.html

 

But hey, instead of getting a good PSU in the first place, you just fiddle around with it, so it costs more in the end than a way better PSU...

 

 

 

4 hours ago, bruny06 said:

Let's not exaggerate, the PSU runs cold when doing normal stuff such as browsing or watching YouTube and runs warm when gaming, not hot, not extra hot, just warm, even though with 450RPM less.

How did you measure it?!
There is no software for your PSU to measure it. And the power electronics and transformer is pretty good insulated from the backside of the case.

So with laying your hand on the case of the PSU, you can't know anything.

 

And again, this statement shows, that you are not qualified to replace the fan of the PSU.

 

 

And you really have no idea of what might happen when something goes wrong!
YOU are the one who goes to jail for modifiying it and YOU have to pay any damage that the PSU might do.

So if it causes a fire, no insurance will pay because YOU were the last to touch it, it does NOT have any safety approvements anymore as they are all void due to replacement of the fan.

And yes, the fan is a safety relevant component.

 

4 hours ago, bruny06 said:

so please try to understand my situation. My VS450 might not be the best thing ever, but as I'm studying and don't have a part-time job yet, I can't really buy a better one, so this one will have to do for now and is definitely a better option over my previous 1:life ps jet 600W PSU. 

Your situation is irrelevant, if it might cause harm to others and is just outright dangerous.

 

It seems that YOU did not understand anything I was trying to say and are hellbent on replacing the fan anyway - wich is a really stupid idea, especially in Europe with all the regulations and the safety issues. 

 

The VS450 is a rather shitty PSU anyway, why bother?

 

So the best way to do things is to throw away your VS450 and get a new, better PSU, maybe from a friend. Doesn't have to be new but of decent quality. 

 

 

So you can either save your money for a decent new PSU like the one I've linked above or buy another shitty one like that:

https://skinflint.co.uk/fsp-fortron-source-hexa-500w-a1140353.html?hloc=uk

 

Or you can risk the life of anyone around you and replace the fan...

 

And yes, it is that dangerous, especially if you don't know what you are doing, wich you do not. And you also don't have the capacity to test if everything is OK after the replaced fan.

The RPM isn't the only thing that's important. Airpressure also is...

[Bruno_A]

On 16/09/2017 at 9:38 PM, Stefan Payne said:

No, around 40 Pounds for a good one, like this:

https://skinflint.co.uk/be-quiet-pure-power-10-400w-atx-2-4-bn272-a1564535.html?hloc=uk (good fan, decent electronics, way better than yours)

https://skinflint.co.uk/xilence-performance-a-series-530w-atx-2-4-xp530r8-xn061-a1380623.html?hloc=uk (cheap, although a bit expansive in the UK, here in G it's about 45€)

 

And yours is in the mid 30s anyway:
https://skinflint.co.uk/corsair-vs-series-vs450-rev-2-0-450w-atx-2-31-cp-9020096-eu-a1331093.html

 

But hey, instead of getting a good PSU in the first place, you just fiddle around with it, so it costs more in the end than a way better PSU...

 

 

 

How did you measure it?!
There is no software for your PSU to measure it. And the power electronics and transformer is pretty good insulated from the backside of the case.

So with laying your hand on the case of the PSU, you can't know anything.

 

And again, this statement shows, that you are not qualified to replace the fan of the PSU.

 

 

And you really have no idea of what might happen when something goes wrong!
YOU are the one who goes to jail for modifiying it and YOU have to pay any damage that the PSU might do.

So if it causes a fire, no insurance will pay because YOU were the last to touch it, it does NOT have any safety approvements anymore as they are all void due to replacement of the fan.

And yes, the fan is a safety relevant component.

 

Your situation is irrelevant, if it might cause harm to others and is just outright dangerous.

 

It seems that YOU did not understand anything I was trying to say and are hellbent on replacing the fan anyway - wich is a really stupid idea, especially in Europe with all the regulations and the safety issues. 

 

The VS450 is a rather shitty PSU anyway, why bother?

 

So the best way to do things is to throw away your VS450 and get a new, better PSU, maybe from a friend. Doesn't have to be new but of decent quality. 

 

 

So you can either save your money for a decent new PSU like the one I've linked above or buy another shitty one like that:

https://skinflint.co.uk/fsp-fortron-source-hexa-500w-a1140353.html?hloc=uk

 

Or you can risk the life of anyone around you and replace the fan...

 

And yes, it is that dangerous, especially if you don't know what you are doing, wich you do not. And you also don't have the capacity to test if everything is OK after the replaced fan.

The RPM isn't the only thing that's important. Airpressure also is...

Just replaced it with a new unit from SuperFlower, although, I must say that you were overreacting. It's not like I'm replacing components such as capacitors or anything, it's just a fan.

[Stefan Payne]

28 minutes ago, bruny06 said:

It's not like I'm replacing components such as capacitors or anything, it's just a fan.

You have NOT understood what I was saying.

Replacing a capacitor is no problem whatsoever - why do you think that is?!

Because a Capacitor is not a safety relevant component, AFAIR. No one cares about that. 

 

But the fan is a safety relevant component...

[Bruno_A]

5 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

No one cares about that

You recommended me a PSU upgrade, which is what I did, I was just updating you on that and letting you know my thoughts on the fan thing. Don't need to be rude.

[Stefan Payne]

51 minutes ago, bruny06 said:

You recommended me a PSU upgrade, which is what I did, I was just updating you on that and letting you know my thoughts on the fan thing. Don't need to be rude.

The point was about your "it's just a fan"...

It's one of the more relevant parts of a PSU, not "just a fan"...

 

That was my point...

 

If it was "just a fan" I'd have no problem with people changing them, but there are some people who mention that a PSU caught fire after they did that.

And there is also this story:

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/11/26/exploding_computer_vs_reg_reader/

 

If you change the fan, lets say, for an 800rpm one and you load the PSU to 100% it can overheat. And we are not talking about the usual silicon that dies instantaneously if it gets 100°C we are talking about parts that are officially specified for 175°C, possibly more...

In the olden days, those parts could desolder themselves! 

 

 

And a fan can cost between 0,5€ and 20€, depending on the quality you want...

In the end it's a rather important part that nobody thinks about in a PSU