Vali 2 vs Valhalla 2?

[seduce_me]

Anyone here have detailed impressions comparing them? Thinking about getting one of these as an upgrade.

[FloRolf]

i think @spwath has tried both

[spwath]

1 minute ago, FloRolf said:

i think @spwath has tried both

Vali 1 and Valhalla 2, not Vali 2.

[Tiwaz]

I really like the names of their AMPs

[Dackzy]

yes YES I have tried both, but it is limited about how detailed I can get, since it is a while ago now.

To a degree, I would say the choice comes down to the headphones you are going to use with it

[Wolf_Lbh]

3 hours ago, Dackzy said:

yes YES I have tried both, but it is limited about how detailed I can get, since it is a while ago now.

To a degree, I would say the choice comes down to the headphones you are going to use with it

Could you go into more detail about that? As Amps are not supposed to color the sound shouldn't it be as simple as "ok these are transparent"? Both are tube amps so they should both handle the sound in the same way so unless one is incredibly slightly more transparent than the other I'm stumped. (Disclaimer I have not listened to the Vali 2 but given it is a schiit product I can't imagine them screwing up and releasing a bad amp)

Also how would the headphones make a difference, would it take ultra accurate headphones to notice the slight difference in sound or something?

Just curious as I try to stick to the most amazing price to performance products and as the Vali 2 is the lowest priced tube amp on the market (according to schiit) and made by a respectable company I would immediately lean towards that but I can't suggest it having never listened to it.

[spwath]

1 hour ago, Wolf_Lbh said:

Could you go into more detail about that? As Amps are not supposed to color the sound shouldn't it be as simple as "ok these are transparent"? Both are tube amps so they should both handle the sound in the same way so unless one is incredibly slightly more transparent than the other I'm stumped..

There is a lot more to an amp than that. There is the soundstage, detail, microdetail, dynamics, microdynamics, plankton, and more. All these make up timbre, the overall sound and lifelikeness of it.

1 hour ago, Wolf_Lbh said:

Also how would the headphones make a difference, would it take ultra accurate headphones to notice the slight difference in sound or something?
 

No, its more about other characteristics of a headphone, namely impedance. Valhalla 2 is an OTL amp, meaning it delivers the most power, and sounds the best, with higher impedance headphones.

Vali is a hybrid, and can do fine with high and low impedance headphones, but not as good as Valhalla with the high impedance phones.

[Dackzy]

1 hour ago, Wolf_Lbh said:

Could you go into more detail about that? As Amps are not supposed to color the sound shouldn't it be as simple as "ok these are transparent"? Both are tube amps so they should both handle the sound in the same way so unless one is incredibly slightly more transparent than the other I'm stumped. (Disclaimer I have not listened to the Vali 2 but given it is a schiit product I can't imagine them screwing up and releasing a bad amp)

Also how would the headphones make a difference, would it take ultra accurate headphones to notice the slight difference in sound or something?

Just curious as I try to stick to the most amazing price to performance products and as the Vali 2 is the lowest priced tube amp on the market (according to schiit) and made by a respectable company I would immediately lean towards that but I can't suggest it having never listened to it.

5

nothing is really "transparent". Everything you add to your setup will have its own touch. A DAC also has its own sound, but the thing is these things are often fairly subtle and often very subtle compared to the difference between headphones.  

 

A tube (this is going to be very very general) will roll off the highs, warm up the mids and maybe add some bass, every single tube you get will do at least one of those things, the degree varies a lot.

 

Transparent is also different from person to person, what I hear as transparent is by some called tending bright, while one of my friends calls things transparent that some call tending warm, we all hear things differently from each other. (prob going to sell him my tube DAC)

 

Different amps accel at different things, x amp might be good at bringing out the mids and low end while being rather eh when it comes to the highs. Something like the Starving Student DIY tube amp paired with the T50rp mod called Argon really brings out every single good thing about the Argons, where as the magni 2 wouldn't be able to do that.

 

All amps are also far from equal, let us say we test a magni 2 and NFB 1AMP that is a 100$ amp vs a 485$ one, that is a pretty big gap, they are both generally viewed as good amps for their price, but why get the more expensive one? It gives you more detail, so detail actually gets lost in the magni 2 (it also does in the 1AMP, but not to the same degree), the lows, mids and highs get a bit cleaner and the sound becomes a bit wider, you might also notice that the "speed" becomes faster and the lows might hit a little harder.

 

If we then look at the Vali 2 and Valhalla 2. The Vali 2 is less veiled, has a bit more speed to it, it is kinda a bit more controlled and then a tiny bit more slam to it, but not as detailed and has less plankton. So the Valhalla 2 has more of this veil to it and it offers more detail and is basically just a more normal tube amp in sound. The Valhalla 2 is one of the tube amps that often get recommended for HD 650's and also HD 600's because a lot of people think they match very well.

 

If you want to learn the terms then basically just google them, it would take too long for me to explain them.

 

We also have the fact that the Valhalla 2 is a OTL amp, meaning it sounds the best with higher impedance headphones and has the most power up in the 300 ohm range vs your normal amp that has most of its power at 32 ohm. The Vali 2 is a hybrid, meaning it takes trades from both the tube and the solid state, so you get some of that tube sound while having most of the power in the low Ohm range.

 

There is a thing that is called matching your gear, meaning if you have X headphone, then you don't just go out and buy your average amp and DAC, you go out and test your headphone with many different setups to find the setup that you think matches very well with them and really lets the headphone shine. I don't really recommend doing this if you are just getting into audio or don't have plans to drop a lot of money on audio.

 

The conclusion to the "transparent" part:

a DAC is not just a DAC and an amp is not just an amp, every single one of them will add their own touch to what you hear. I hope that you can use this information.

 

You can get cheaper tube amps and hybrids than the fulla 2, but would I really recommend doing it? No, not really, the vali 2 is basically just giving you a small taste of what a tube amp is. 

You also don't need ultra accurate headphones to notice a change, I would actually say that to a degree your hearing is more important than the actual headphone, yes some headphones are more sensitive to source gear than others are. Schiit gear is TBH a bit too hyped at times, yes they have some good/great gear, but there are quite a bit of their gear I would classify as okay.

I think that was it

[spwath]

If after all this you still believe and amp is an amp and a dac is a dac, and transparent is all they need to be, get yourself an ODAC and an O2 Amp.

[Wolf_Lbh]

I watched a Zeos review on the Vali 2 and he claims it is not enough tube and basically just a solid state amp. I trust his ears so I would suggest if you are going for a tube amp to maybe consider shopping outside Schiit. I'm sure the Valhalla 2 would be great but I personally would shop around because I'm sure there should be a great tube amp for ~$200 and jumping straight to the $350 pool feels excessive just to get tube sound. Of course if your budget accommodates that easily then sure why not.

The DarkVoice 336SE for around $200 sounds like an affordable, favorably reviewed tube amp.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CF9JON8
 

19 minutes ago, spwath said:

If after all this you still believe and amp is an amp and a dac is a dac, and transparent is all they need to be, get yourself an ODAC and an O2 Amp.

I believe that they should be transparent, and headphones/iems/speakers should be neutral sounding and if you desire any modifications to the sound of your music you should use an eq. I understand that not everyone shares that belief and that's ok. (As long as they don't use that belief to bully someone into spending money they don't need to.) But this thread, and my comments on it are not about my beliefs but what tube amp this person should get.

[spwath]

17 minutes ago, Wolf_Lbh said:

I watched a Zeos review on the Vali 2 and he claims it is not enough tube and basically just a solid state amp. I trust his ears so I would suggest if you are going for a tube amp to maybe consider shopping outside Schiit. I'm sure the Valhalla 2 would be great but I personally would shop around because I'm sure there should be a great tube amp for ~$200 and jumping straight to the $350 pool feels excessive just to get tube sound. Of course if your budget accommodates that easily then sure why not.

The DarkVoice 336SE for around $200 sounds like an affordable, favorably reviewed tube amp.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CF9JON8
 

I believe that they should be transparent, and headphones/iems/speakers should be neutral sounding and if you desire any modifications to the sound of your music you should use an eq. I understand that not everyone shares that belief and that's ok. (As long as they don't use that belief to bully someone into spending money they don't need to.) But this thread, and my comments on it are not about my beliefs but what tube amp this person should get.

Zeos is one of the last person I, (or most audio people) would trust

[Wolf_Lbh]

1 minute ago, spwath said:

Zeos is one of the last person I, (or most audio people) would trust

This got offtopic but I didn't mean to be controversial. I had no idea there was any controversy behind his channel. It isn't like he is Tek Syndicate or something.

[seduce_me]

I've had the darkvoice and little dot. Both were mushy warm rolled off tube shit. I was just wondering if the Valhalla 2 does better in this regard and gives me the "tube" sound without sounding like that, perhaps something like an Eddie Current.

[Wolf_Lbh]

2 minutes ago, seduce_me said:

I've had the darkvoice and little dot. Both were mushy warm rolled off tube shit. I was just wondering if the Valhalla 2 does better in this regard and gives me the "tube" sound without sounding like that, perhaps something like an Eddie Current.

Based on the reviews I've read the Vali sounds like it is only extremely slightly tube sounding and considering you have the budget for multiple expensive tube amps I would jump straight to the Valhalla 2. While it wasn't worth the price for me it appears to be in your price range and you want tube sound so I'd say go for it.

Maybe check with @Dackzy first to make sure your headphones don't conflict with that particular amp.

[spwath]

1 hour ago, seduce_me said:

I've had the darkvoice and little dot. Both were mushy warm rolled off tube shit. I was just wondering if the Valhalla 2 does better in this regard and gives me the "tube" sound without sounding like that, perhaps something like an Eddie Current.

 it should. Darkvoice and little dot are not well received where i have seen, compared to the Valhalla.

[Dackzy]

4 hours ago, seduce_me said:

I've had the darkvoice and little dot. Both were mushy warm rolled off tube shit. I was just wondering if the Valhalla 2 does better in this regard and gives me the "tube" sound without sounding like that, perhaps something like an Eddie Current.

The Valhalla 2 is better than littledot and darkvoice 

[seduce_me]

3 hours ago, Dackzy said:

The Valhalla 2 is better than littledot and darkvoice 

Alright, I'll purchase the Valhalla 2.

[spwath]

3 hours ago, seduce_me said:

Alright, I'll purchase the Valhalla 2.

  good choice. You will enjoy

 

[Dackzy]

4 hours ago, seduce_me said:

Alright, I'll purchase the Valhalla 2.

Good choice and I am sure that you are going to like it.