Random VEGA questions!

[GM Rod]

All right, here they are:

So 56 is poised to compete with 1070.
And 64 is the same for 1080.

Why didn't AMD go for beating the 1080 Ti?
Or, will the 64 cards be able to do it once drivers mature a little bit?

As for putting these cards in a liquid cooled custom system:
I see there's already EK stuff for the vega cards.

So if we're swapping the original card parts to install the EKWB block, do you buy the water cooled one or the air cooled one?

And, I see every single vega card is sold out everywhere. But, ALL the cards from the third party manufacturers look like they're the very same design as the "founders" cards. Why?

[Shiv78]

6 minutes ago, GM Rod said:

So if we're swapping the original card parts to install the EKWB block, do you buy the water cooled one or the air cooled one?

 

air cooled

 

6 minutes ago, GM Rod said:

And, I see every single vega card is sold out everywhere. But, ALL the cards from the third party manufacturers look like they're the very same design as the "founders" cards. Why?

nobody has custom designed PCBs or coolers out yet, they will come though.

[GM Rod]

1 minute ago, Name Taken said:

Their planning to beat the 1080 Ti with dual Vega card.

Wait, so like what they did with the 295x2?

Sounds like a bad idea... isn't Crossfire and SLI pretty dead right now? I mean it's technically not crossfire but from what I understand, most games are poorly, if at all, optimized for using more than one GPU.

And is that gonna have competitive pricing against a single card? Hard to do...

Also how about power consumption? The liquid cooled vegas are bad already...

[The Sloth]

Just now, GM Rod said:

isn't Crossfire and SLI pretty dead right now?

no, most AAA games support SLI and Crossfire. 

 

[Shiv78]

1 minute ago, GM Rod said:

Wait, so like what they did with the 295x2?

 

yes

 

1 minute ago, GM Rod said:

Sounds like a bad idea... isn't Crossfire and SLI pretty dead right now? I mean it's technically not crossfire but from what I understand, most games are poorly, if at all, optimized for using more than one GPU.

 

yup!

 not exactly dead but dying for some devs

1 minute ago, GM Rod said:

And is that gonna have competitive pricing against a single card? Hard to do...

 

probably not

 

1 minute ago, GM Rod said:

Also how about power consumption? The liquid cooled vegas are bad already...

horrible, if AMD was a troll god they would sell it with a 850W+ PSU included

[GM Rod]

Just now, nerdslayer1 said:

no, most AAA games support SLI and Crossfire. 

 

Then why is EVERY tech channel, including Linus', advising against a multi GPU setup right now?

[Max_Settings]

7 minutes ago, GM Rod said:

So 56 is poised to compete with 1070.
And 64 is the same for 1080.

The 56 does compete with the 1070 and beats it almost all around, it's a good card. The 64 I would stay far away from, it costs more than a 1080 at $600, isn't any faster, and has double the power consumption.

[HKZeroFive]

To put it simply... as of now, AMD doesn't have the capacity to make a GTX 1080Ti competitor. Also, no amount of "drivers" will make RX Vega 64 competitive with that card. You're talking about a 30% difference.

 

AIB partners will sell reference cards first then sell their own aftermarket cards. _{It's not "Founders" goddammit!}

[The Sloth]

Just now, GM Rod said:

Then why is EVERY tech channel, including Linus', advising against a multi GPU setup right now?

good for them, it doesn't mean it's dead, PCs are not only designed for gaming, people do other things with them, also linus is the guy who recommended an i5 over ryzen 1600. 

[Max_Settings]

Just now, GM Rod said:

Then why is EVERY tech channel, including Linus', advising against a multi GPU setup right now?

No one is advertising against multi GPU setups. You are getting confused here. People reccomend going with the single highest end card you can over two lower tier cards. 

[Shiv78]

Just now, nerdslayer1 said:

also linus is the guy who recommended an i5 over ryzen 1600. 

also he said 7600K is a better value gaming chip than a 7700  

[The Sloth]

Just now, Shiv78 said:

also he said 7600K is a better value gaming chip than a 7700  

good old "you don't need an i7 for gaming, games only use 4 cores"

[Shiv78]

1 minute ago, Max_Settings said:

No one is advertising against multi GPU setups. You are getting confused here. People reccomend going with the single highest end card you can over two lower tier cards. 

yeah

 

i.e. 

2 1070s or 1 1080Ti? >>> 1080 Ti

2 1080 Ti or 1 1080 Ti? >>> 2

1 Vega or 2 Vega ? > upgrade PSU if required >>> 2 vega

[Max_Settings]

1 minute ago, Shiv78 said:

yeah

 

i.e. 

2 1070s or 1 1080Ti? >>> 1080 Ti

2 1080 Ti or 1 1080 Ti? >>> 2

1 Vega or 2 Vega ? > upgrade PSU if required >>> 2 vega

You'd need like 1200W+ to run Xfire 64s

[rattacko123]

27 minutes ago, GM Rod said:

Why didn't AMD go for beating the 1080 Ti?
Or, will the 64 cards be able to do it once drivers mature a little bit?

AMD wanted an all purpose architecture for servers and pro users to use with their epyc CPUs, so they are not targeting the 1080 ti.

If they were targeting the 1080 ti then they would have put a lot more ROPs, vega is crippled by lack of ROPs and AMD doesn't seem to want to do much more than 4096 cores. A large portion of the die is taken up by the HBCC which means that the die size is similar to the 1080ti despite having gtx 1080 levels of compute units and graphics features.

EDIT: vega would only be able to beat the 1080 ti if the games are heavily utilising shaders (e.g. compute heavy workload)

[Shiv78]

8 minutes ago, Max_Settings said:

You'd need like 1200W+ to run Xfire 64s

not really, the WC ones max around 350-360W at full synthetic load IIRC so if your CPU is not too crazy (1700 @4.0ish/7700K with medium OC) ~850W is alright.

[GDRRiley]

11 minutes ago, Max_Settings said:

You'd need like 1200W+ to run Xfire 64s

no only with the water cooled cards at boost buy cutting the clock some you can get it better consumption. I suspect  2 will need 450-500W

[Max_Settings]

13 minutes ago, GDRRiley said:

cutting the clock some

Why on earth would you ever cut your cards clock speed? 

[GDRRiley]

Just now, Max_Settings said:

Why on earth would you ever cut your cards clock speed? 

because vega 64 especial water cooled is out of the best frequency range for most efficiency. 

 

[GM Rod]

35 minutes ago, Max_Settings said:

No one is advertising against multi GPU setups. You are getting confused here. People reccomend going with the single highest end card you can over two lower tier cards. 

No, I get this.

I should've explained myself better:

Most channels testing says 2 cards is only a slight % improvement in performance.

As in not worth it monetarily. Not enough gain for what you pay for two of the same top end card.

FOR GAMING, anyway.

 

But since you guys mentioned it, you're saying Crossfire would benefit Adobe Premiere usage, then?

As in go all crazy and get two of the $1500 vega cards with the 12gb RAM?

[bomerr]

1 hour ago, GM Rod said:

Why didn't AMD go for beating the 1080 Ti?

Short answer: because they could not. 

 

Long answer: You have to understand what you are buying. It's this 

 

and they are made on these wafers

 

30mm-450mm-Silicon-Wafer-635x382.jpg

 

Now there are 2 ways you can make a GPU more powerful. You can either make the GPU die bigger, which means you can increase transitiors, or you make the architecture more efficient so the same GPU size is more powerful.

 

The disadvantage of making the GPU larger is you can make less wafer and it increases power consumption. Hence AMD would have beat the 1080 Ti in terms of FPS but it would come at the cost of insanely high power usage. Their architecture just isn't efficient enough to compete against Nvidia and even the 56 and 64 have more power usage than 1070 and 1080. 

1 hour ago, GM Rod said:

Or, will the 64 cards be able to do it once drivers mature a little bit?

No

 

Buy 1080 Ti  

[xsimplyjosh]

2 hours ago, GM Rod said:

Then why is EVERY tech channel, including Linus', advising against a multi GPU setup right now?

I'm kinda following Linus. Not all games can utilise SLI compatibility. its up to the developers overall so the only way is to push them ... some do perform better and some just show no significant leap in performance and I'm pretty sure one or two game resulted in a drop due to poor optimisation 

 

that at being said I know some will have no issue buying two graphics cards for linking however majority would prefer to roll with one card , easier to manage and no worries about compatibility issues. I know I'm one.