X99 vs X299 vs X370 vs X399 Which way to go?

[Monster P]

Hi guys,

I'm here because I respect this community to give honest accurate feedback that is helpful and not heavily biased one way or the other. I know, I'm dreaming right? I have run Intel chips for 30 years, even in the AMD heyday I stuck with them. Right now I'm running an i7 5820K OC'd to 4.4ghz, 16gb of 2800mhz RAM, and a GTX980Ti.  The system works just fine.  But just fine is not good enough for what I'm currently doing.  I render 4K video and I'm on a triple monitor setup with an Asus  VG248qe 1080p 24", a Dell U3415C 1440p ultrawide, and an Asus PB287Q 4K 27" monitor.  I game and edit video in 4K and use the other two monitors for productivity.  I've got around $3500 set aside for this upgrade, although my storage solution seems to be taking a $1000 of that away.  And the custom loop will be another $700+ off the top leaving me $1800 to $2000 or so for a MB, a CPU, 32gb RAM, and a GPU.

 

Now finally my question:

I'm looking to upgrade and I'm considering Ryzen or Threadripper vs i7 7820X or the i9 7900X.  Money is an object but not the only controlling factor.  I want a great 4K gaming experience and blazing fast rendering whilst not dropping my entire 401K into a system.  Everyone says the 1700 is the best VALUE  but for a $100 more will the 1800x eek out any better performance over the lifetime of the chip? I mean running the 1700 with high voltages for ever VS the 1800x with no OC on stock voltage?  Then there's Intel's embarrassment called X299. I see better gaming numbers out of the 7820x, but is it worth the premium? And the i9 seems like just a rich boys fantasy right? Or, is it really worth it?  I also considered just picking up a 5960X on eBay and keeping my X99 system?? I'm open to suggestion here, as I really do not know which way to proceed. I'm also upgrading to a 1080Ti.

 

I have watched countless videos and read myriad threads on the subject and have yet to make up my mind??  Can you guys offer any suggestions? Thank you for your time...

 

Geezer

[Damascus]

Absolutely X399.  When you turn on gaming mode it becomes a super fast 1800x (4.2ghz, 8c/16t) and when it is used at full strength the 1950x is an insane productivity beast.

[Monster P]

Now we're in i9 territory? Comparing $1000 chips, one would want the best of everything right? Gaming and editing. I'm not convinced that the premium paid for these two options is 100% justified? Sell me.... I'm open

[Zando_]

4 minutes ago, Damascus said:

Absolutely X399.  When you turn on gaming mode it becomes a super fast 1800x (4.2ghz, 8c/16t) and when it is used at full strength the 1950x is an insane productivity beast.

 

Just now, Monster P said:

Now we're in i9 territory? Comparing $1000 chips, one would want the best of everything right? Gaming and editing. I'm not convinced that the premium paid for these two options is 100% justified? Sell me.... I'm open

TR will beat out i9s, since it's a better value, not such a rushed platform, and has more cores/PCIe lanes/etc than i9s. Though if you don't need a massive core count, stick with a Ryzen 7 1700. At 4K gaming, most of the stress is on the GPU, though in rendering you want as many cores as your software can handle. 

[SpaceGhostC2C]

4 minutes ago, Damascus said:

Absolutely X399.  When you turn on gaming mode it becomes a super fast 1800x (4.2ghz, 8c/16t) and when it is used at full strength the 1950x is an insane productivity beast.

It sounds great, but if his budget is ~$2000... the 1950x takes $1000 away, leaving $1000 for motherboard, RAM and GPU. And he wants "a great 4K experience", which means probably a 1080ti? I can't see everything fitting in his budget if he goes with either of the expensive CPU platforms. Maybe a 1920 could square things out, but I'm not sure how much cheaper it is.

[Monster P]

1 minute ago, Zando Bob said:

 

TR will beat out i9s, since it's a better value, not such a rushed platform, and has more cores/PCIe lanes/etc than i9s. Though if you don't need a massive core count, stick with a Ryzen 7 1700. At 4K gaming, most of the stress is on the GPU, though in rendering you want as many cores as your software can handle. 

I,m using Adobe Premiere right now and it doesn't seem to respond to massive thread counts yet? 

[Zando_]

1 minute ago, Monster P said:

I,m using Adobe Premiere right now and it doesn't seem to respond to massive thread counts yet? 

Then stick with an R7 1700 and 1080 Ti. 

[Monster P]

Just now, Zando Bob said:

Then stick with an R7 1700 and 1080 Ti. 

So you would run the 1700 over the 1800x or the 1700x? I know the 1700 will almost match the 1800x performance for much less money, but long term is it still the better valuse considering the voltages needed to get it there?

[Zando_]

Just now, Monster P said:

So you would run the 1700 over the 1800x or the 1700x? I know the 1700 will almost match the 1800x performance for much less money, but long term is it still the better valuse considering the voltages needed to get it there?

I'd say it is, since you can OC it the same, and it includes a good stock cooler. You miss out on XFR though, you need a 1700X or 1800X for that. If you can fit one in without compromising on anything else, then go for it. 

[TheOriginalHero]

Considering you game at 4k there will be next to no difference in terms of gaming performance between any of the cpus mentioned.

The 1800x is just an overclocked 1700 (note the tdp difference) so there is no real difference between the 2 chips when overclocked. 

For rendering the 1950x will offer the best performance for the most part and does not require any overclocking (unlike the i9 7900x which needs to be heavily overclocked to keep up and runs hotter). However both the i9 and the 1950x cost $1000. Add the gpu to that <$700 which leaves you with ~200 for ram and a motherboard. 

 

Imo the best option would be just to buy a 5960x. 

[Lathlaer]

Imma suggest something crazy here, like stay on x99 which is still a very good platform and get a second 1080ti for SLI

[Monster P]

3 minutes ago, Zando Bob said:

I'd say it is, since you can OC it the same, and it includes a good stock cooler. You miss out on XFR though, you need a 1700X or 1800X for that. If you can fit one in without compromising on anything else, then go for it. 

It actually appears that the 1800x will out perform an OC'd 1700 but only by a small margin and for a $100 premium. I am looking for the best performance I can get for my budget. My custom loop will include a full board water block so keeping either chip/mosfet combo cool should not be an issue.

[Zando_]

Just now, Monster P said:

It actually appears that the 1800x will out perform an OC'd 1700 but only by a small margin and for a $100 premium. I am looking for the best performance I can get for my budget. My custom loop will include a full board water block so keeping either chip/mosfet combo cool should not be an issue.

Then I'd compromise and get a 1700X, since it's cheaper than an 1800X, but still has XFR. 

[Monster P]

5 minutes ago, TheOriginalHero said:

Considering you game at 4k there will be next to no difference in terms of gaming performance between any of the cpus mentioned.

The 1800x is just an overclocked 1700 (note the tdp difference) so there is no real difference between the 2 chips when overclocked. 

For rendering the 1950x will offer the best performance for the most part and does not require any overclocking (unlike the i9 7900x which needs to be heavily overclocked to keep up and runs hotter). However both the i9 and the 1950x cost $1000. Add the gpu to that <$700 which leaves you with ~200 for ram and a motherboard. 

 

Imo the best option would be just to buy a 5960x. 

This is intriguing as I can pick up a 5960x for under $600 new on eBay. I can upgrade my ram to 32gb and pick up a 1080Ti and still be under budget? I won't be on current architecture, but the performance might just be worth it?  

[TheOriginalHero]

600 (cpu) + 800 (decent 1080ti) + 280 ( quad channel 32gb ddr4) = ~1700

 

The 5960x is better than the 1800x when overclocked fully. Imo this is the best option for your budget. You could also get a 1700 and a decent motherboard for around 150-200 less but youd be sacrificing quad channel memory support, pcie lanes and single thread performance.

[TacoSenpai]

47 minutes ago, Monster P said:

I,m using Adobe Premiere right now and it doesn't seem to respond to massive thread counts yet? 

I'm sure you might be aware but Premiere is more impacted by CUDA acceleration so an upgrade in your Nvidia GPU would likely improve it more so though the extra cores on an R7/TR wouldn't hurt.  Though Ryzen does have comparatively weak performance when it comes to AVX instruction sets.  

 

From one former 5820K user to another.  I got my 1800X and love it and think it does do slightly better than my 5820K did in video rendering in Vegas and Premiere definitely a bigger improvement in Vegas though. 

[Monster P]

Well this is what I've gathered so far:

 

1) 5960X (eBay) $600 + 32gb 3000mhg RAM $300 + 1080Ti $800 = ~$1700  -  Good IPC, faster rendering than 5820k but slower than 1800X, quad ch memory, small impact on 4K gaming

 

2) 1700X $330 + 32gb 3200 (ryzen) RAM $370 + X370 CH6 Mobo $275 + 1080Ti $800 =~$1800  -  Slower IPC, Faster rendering than 5820k & 5960x, dual channel memory with issues, no impact on 4K gaming

 

3) TR 1900X $600 + 32gb 3200 (ryzen) RAM $ 370 + X399 Mobo $400 + 1080Ti $800 =~$2200  -  Slower IPC, faster rendering than 5960x, quad ch memory, no impact on 4K gaming.

 

4) 7820X $600 + 32gb 3200 RAM $300 + X299 Mobo $400 + 1080Ti $800 =~$2100  -  Fastest IPC, slower rendering than 1700x, quad ch memory, small impact on 4K gaming.

 

It comes down to gaming performance vs rendering performance as it always does.  I can afford all 4 options. Rendering times a separated by less than a minute and FPS at 4K are separated by less than 20.  So should the choice be purely monetary??  What about long term viability?  Which would be better in 5 years? This is really f-ing hard!!  I so want to give AMD a try, but my Intel roots are tugging at me.

[Damascus]

5960x or 6950x I suppose.

[Damascus]

35 minutes ago, Monster P said:

Which would be better in 5 years?

The TR4 cpu will be better, several generations will come out over the next couple of years and you may be looking at a 32c/64t cpu you could slot into the  mobo you get tight now.

[Masada02]

Clearly the answer is to buy my last 5960X and OC the wee out of it 

 

Aside from my sales pitch, I really do think that staying on X99 and switching to a 5960X is the way to go. It's going to be your cheapest upgrade, will perform better than all Ryzen 8 cores, and is only 8-9% off of a well OC'd 7820X with more PCIE lanes for more GPUs. With the savings, grab another 980TI and enjoy tons of frames at whatever res you play.

[mrthuvi]

17 minutes ago, Masada02 said:

Clearly the answer is to buy my last 5960X and OC the wee out of it 

 

Aside from my sales pitch, I really do think that staying on X99 and switching to a 5960X is the way to go. It's going to be your cheapest upgrade, will perform better than all Ryzen 8 cores, and is only 8-9% off of a well OC'd 7820X with more PCIE lanes for more GPUs. With the savings, grab another 980TI and enjoy tons of frames at whatever res you play.

Most cost efficient too. But for GPU 1080ti would be better for 4k.

[TahoeDust]

I weighed the same options and went with the 7820x and 1080 ti.  It was the most well rounded in my opinion.  Big overclocking headroom, great single threaded performance, 8 cores when needing multithread power.  

 

 

[done12many2]

1 hour ago, Monster P said:

Well this is what I've gathered so far:

 

1) 5960X (eBay) $600 + 32gb 3000mhg RAM $300 + 1080Ti $800 = ~$1700  -  Good IPC, faster rendering than 5820k but slower than 1800X, quad ch memory, small impact on 4K gaming

 

2) 1700X $330 + 32gb 3200 (ryzen) RAM $370 + X370 CH6 Mobo $275 + 1080Ti $800 =~$1800  -  Slower IPC, Faster rendering than 5820k & 5960x, dual channel memory with issues, no impact on 4K gaming

 

3) TR 1900X $600 + 32gb 3200 (ryzen) RAM $ 370 + X399 Mobo $400 + 1080Ti $800 =~$2200  -  Slower IPC, faster rendering than 5960x, quad ch memory, no impact on 4K gaming.

 

4) 7820X $600 + 32gb 3200 RAM $300 + X299 Mobo $400 + 1080Ti $800 =~$2100  -  Fastest IPC, slower rendering than 1700x, quad ch memory, small impact on 4K gaming.

 

It comes down to gaming performance vs rendering performance as it always does.  I can afford all 4 options. Rendering times a separated by less than a minute and FPS at 4K are separated by less than 20.  So should the choice be purely monetary??  What about long term viability?  Which would be better in 5 years? This is really f-ing hard!!  I so want to give AMD a try, but my Intel roots are tugging at me.

 

You either have a budget or you don't and in your case, you do.  With that said, the 5960x overclocked will deliver some pretty great multi-threaded AND single threaded performance when compared to an overclocked Ryzen R7 chip.

 

Obviously, more cores will help with Premiere, but there is a point in Premiere (roughly 18 threads) where scaling simply stops or slows so much that any additional threads are essentially wasted.  Editing within Premiere before the final export is also a back and forth of single and multi-threaded tasks.  This is to say that a CPU with high single and multi-threading will benefit you more in regular use.  Photoshop and Lightroom are even worse in that they strictly favor high single-threaded performance. 

 

If you are going to runs these setups at stock speed, definitely consider Ryzen R7, but if you plan to overclock, a 5960x will easily surpass the rendering power of a R7 while pulling away very strongly in the area of single core performance.  

 

I wouldn't currently recommend a 5960x to anyone doing a new build unless they found a great deal, but your case is a bit different.   

 

Oh, and check with @Masada02 as he had 4 or 5 of the 5960x CPUs on hand recently.  He may be able to save you even more money.

 

Lastly, if you find yourself coming into some money before the build, scratch everything I said and get the 7980XE at the end of September.  Why wonder if you are going to need more single or multi-threaded from task to task when you can just get a CPU that does it all and then some.

[DXMember]

I'd look into offloading your rendering workflow to GPUs, it's much more performance while being more cost efficient and more power efficient

[done12many2]

Just now, DXMember said:

I'd look into offloading your rendering workflow to GPUs, it's much more performance while being more cost efficient and more power efficient

 

The CPU will still matter in Premiere even with multiple GPUs firing away.  More cores to a point along with more GPUs to a point and you have the fastest export possible.