"powerful" router/switch/....

[79wjd]

I'm considering restructuring my home network as I have a lot of the network kind of in the middle of everything and I don't particularly like it. I'm thinking buying a "cheap" wired-router and putting it along with the modem+server+other server-related stuff in a (large and not stuffy) closet and then placing two APs around the house. I currently have an Asus RT-68u that I would like to use an an AP as I feel it would be a waste as a wired-router. 

 

So, I'd have the modem+wired router+server in the closet and then two APs/routers in AP mode handling wifi. I would like for the wired router to have (easy to set up and use): DDNS, VPN server, and QOS; a firewall would be nice too I guess (my AC68u ticks all of these boxes, although the VPN can be painfully slow). I was looking at something like this: https://www.amazon.com/TP-LINK-TL-R600VPN-Gigabit-Broadband-Supports/dp/B007B60SCG/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=ll1&tag=mwsussex040_routers-20&linkId=1450498e214b09df5e031d81d64252d1&th=1 but I don't know if that's good or not for my use case or if there is something better. 

 

Let's say my budget is <$100, but ideally $50~ for the router. 

[GDRRiley]

run you router on a pc. just use a vm to run it. 

[Falconevo]

Either build your own and run a firewall/router distro such as vyatta/pfsense/ClearOS etc

Or if a pre-built unit is what you want Ubiquiti edge router lite would be more than capable of the needs you have.

https://www.ubnt.com/edgemax/edgerouter-lite/

 

[The Benjamins]

24 minutes ago, Falconevo said:

Either build your own and run a firewall/router distro such as vyatta/pfsense/ClearOS etc

Or if a pre-built unit is what you want Ubiquiti edge router lite would be more than capable of the needs you have.

https://www.ubnt.com/edgemax/edgerouter-lite/

 

Some notes

Edgerouter X QOS speed 40-60Mbps

Edgerouter lite QOS speed 70-100Mbps

Edgerouter ER8 QOS speed 250-350Mbps

 

I am not sure what the speeds are for VPN use. I have a 250/13 speed internet and I have QOS with the ER lite on upload ONLY. so i can get the full DL bandwidth will it still managing the upload so people don't lag in games.

 

Found this

https://community.ubnt.com/t5/EdgeMAX/ERL-Performance-Testing-with-IPSec-VPN/td-p/1050229

it says VPN can do 60Mbps with no HW acceleration and 150Mbps with.

NOTE: X has no HW acceleration but has a slightly faster CPU.\

 

https://community.ubnt.com/t5/EdgeMAX/ER-X-IPsec-VPN-Performance/td-p/1700115

[Lurick]

Psh, just increase budget to ~1250K and buy a Firepower 4150 or 9300 and pair it with an ASR9900 with 4 port 100G blades, toss a few Nexus 93180YC or 93108TC behind that and you're set.

 

 

On a serious note, Ubiquity is great if you don't want to build your own pfsense box  

[79wjd]

9 hours ago, GDRRiley said:

run you router on a pc. just use a vm to run it. 

1 hour ago, Falconevo said:

Either build your own and run a firewall/router distro such as vyatta/pfsense/ClearOS etc

Or if a pre-built unit is what you want Ubiquiti edge router lite would be more than capable of the needs you have.

https://www.ubnt.com/edgemax/edgerouter-lite/

 

1 hour ago, Lurick said:

Psh, just increase budget to ~1250K and buy a Firepower 4150 or 9300 and pair it with an ASR9900 with 4 port 100G blades, toss a few Nexus 93180YC or 93108TC behind that and you're set.

 

 

On a serious note, Ubiquity is great if you don't want to build your own pfsense box  

I don't really want the complexity or cost of a PFsense box. But I was really hoping for something cheaper than the Ubiquiti Edgerouters. 

1 hour ago, The Benjamins said:

Some notes

Edgerouter X QOS speed 40-60Mbps

Edgerouter lite QOS speed 70-100Mbps

Edgerouter ER8 QOS speed 250-350Mbps

 

I am not sure what the speeds are for VPN use. I have a 250/13 speed internet and I have QOS with the ER lite on upload ONLY. so i can get the full DL bandwidth will it still managing the upload so people don't lag in games.

 

Found this

https://community.ubnt.com/t5/EdgeMAX/ERL-Performance-Testing-with-IPSec-VPN/td-p/1050229

it says VPN can do 60Mbps with no HW acceleration and 150Mbps with.

NOTE: X has no HW acceleration but has a slightly faster CPU.\

 

https://community.ubnt.com/t5/EdgeMAX/ER-X-IPsec-VPN-Performance/td-p/1700115

As I said I was hoping for something cheaper than the Edgerouters, but I would mainly be using the VPN if I wanted to upload files to/download files from my FreeNAS server or if I needed to access something on the network to try and fix it. 

 

Could you explain what the differences between the Lite/X are a bit more and/or how the X/Lite compares with the TP-Link router I linked in my original post? I also technically need four ethernet ports -- FreeNAS server, HDHomeRun, AP, AP -- although I could probably combine two of those onto a switch if the savings were substantial enough to outweigh the cost of a switch. Also, how easy is it to setup/manage the VPN -- I'd like something that's pretty straightforward/simple.

 

P.s. I now use an openVPN service that's hosted on my Asus RT-AC68u router and it's abysmally slow (to the point where I sometimes can't connect to my FreeNAS server through Finder) -- I assume that's because the VPN in my router is crap? 

 

P.p.s in my digging I came across this post: http://www.overclock.net/t/1627095/router-ap-for-home-network#post_26050988 , why would I want a switch too and not just use each LAN port for a device?

[The Benjamins]

12 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

I don't really want the complexity or cost of a PFsense box. But I was really hoping for something cheaper than the Ubiquiti Edgerouters. 

As I said I was hoping for something cheaper than the Edgerouters, but I would mainly be using the VPN if I wanted to upload files to/download files from my FreeNAS server or if I needed to access something on the network to try and fix it. 

 

Could you explain what the differences between the Lite/X are a bit more and/or how the X/Lite compares with the TP-Link router I linked in my original post? (I also technically need four ethernet ports -- FreeNAS server, HDHomeRun, AP, AP -- although I could probably combine two of those onto a switch if the savings were substantial enough)

 

P.s. I now use an openVPN service that's hosted on my Asus RT-AC68u router and it's abysmally slow (to the point where I sometimes can't connect to my FreeNAS server through Finder) -- I assume that's because the VPN in my router is crap? 

 

Quote

High-Security VPN Capabilities
TL-R600VPN supports IPsec and PPTP VPN protocols and can handle IPsec/PPTP/L2TP pass-through traffic as well. The maximum throughput can reach 20 Mbps. It also features a built-in hardware-based VPN engine allowing the router to support and manage up to 20 LAN-to-LAN IPsec and 16 PPTP VPN connections.

so the ER X is 2-3 times faster in VPN stuff.

ER X is <$50, ER Lite is <$100

 

as for needing 4 ports you should use a switch. the switching speed on edgerouter are not that good, due to not having any hardware acceleration.

 

basically the lite is just faster, it can do 1Gbps at 64b packets when the X can't (that is routing so if your internet speed is slower then 400Mbps its not noticeable)

 

ER X

130 kpps for 64-byte packets
1 Gbps for 1518-byte packets

 

ER Lite

1 Gpps for 64-byte packets
3 Gbps for 512-byte packets

 

https://dl.ubnt.com/datasheets/edgemax/EdgeRouter_DS.pdf

https://dl.ubnt.com/datasheets/edgemax/EdgeRouter_X_DS.pdf

 

I don't know what your internet speed is and what VPN service you are using.

[79wjd]

7 minutes ago, The Benjamins said:

 

so the ER X is 2-3 times faster in VPN stuff.

ER X is <$50, ER Lite is <$100

 

as for needing 4 ports you should use a switch. the switching speed on edgerouter are not that good, due to not having any hardware acceleration.

 

basically the lite is just faster, it can do 1Gbps at 64b packets when the X can't (that is routing so if your internet speed is slower then 400Mbps its not noticeable)

 

ER X

130 kpps for 64-byte packets
1 Gbps for 1518-byte packets

 

ER Lite

1 Gpps for 64-byte packets
3 Gbps for 512-byte packets

 

https://dl.ubnt.com/datasheets/edgemax/EdgeRouter_DS.pdf

https://dl.ubnt.com/datasheets/edgemax/EdgeRouter_X_DS.pdf

 

I don't know what your internet speed is and what VPN service you are using.

I get like 50/25mbps (but I guess, let's assume that could increase -- although more than likely will remain below 400mbps). Like I said, my VPN use is pretty basic -- it would just be for remote access to the network if I wanted to do a file transfer with my FreeNAS server/fix something on the network, so would the X be fast enough? I'm open to using any VPN service -- I just want something that is easy to set up/manage and that goes for the router as well -- I don't want to spend hours trying to figure out how to set it up and get it working.

 

I could probably get away with using my Asus router as the main router/switch/AP and then just running a second AP off of it, but I would consider getting a dedicated router+switch if it meant much better VPN performance. 

[The Benjamins]

3 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

I get like 50/25mbps (but I guess, let's assume that could increase -- although more than likely will remain below 400mbps). Like I said, my VPN use is pretty basic -- it would just be for remote access to the network if I wanted to do a file transfer with my FreeNAS server/fix something on the network, so would the X be fast enough? I'm open to using any VPN service -- I just want something that is easy to set up/manage and that goes for the router as well -- I don't want to spend hours trying to figure out how to set it up and get it working.

 

I could probably get away with using my Asus router as the main router/switch/AP and then just running a second AP off of it, but I would consider getting a dedicated router+switch if it meant much better VPN performance. 

The X sounds fine to me.

 

as long as you use the wizards it should be very easy. and the fact you have CLI access you can do some high level stuff (if needed) and I find it easy to google how to do something with the edgerouter.

 

I have not used the VPN stuff my self so do your own research on VPN's you may want to use and how to set it up in it.

[luigi90210]

17 hours ago, djdwosk97 said:

I don't really want the complexity or cost of a PFsense box.

so use another router OS then, sophos has free enterprise grade software that is essentially plug and play, and as far as costs go, you can use an old computer you have laying around or heck even buy a $20 pc off craigslist with a $20 NIC off ebay

to put things into perspective i didnt spend a dime on my PFsense box, im using an old laptop with a USB3 NIC and its perfect for my 1Gbps home network and yes PFsense is pretty confusing but there are other alternatives out there that require little to no setup, heck to get pfsense working as a router its pretty simple(its setting up snort and other enterprise grade that make setting up pfsense a pita)

 

in terms of performance you wont find anything that performs nearly as well as a pfsense box/alternatives, i havent setup a vpn server yet but im sure i can get near perfect network performance on my pfsense box over any consumer grade router(although i might be wrong so someone correct me if i am)

[Marshnt]

On 6/20/2017 at 11:56 PM, djdwosk97 said:

I'm considering restructuring my home network as I have a lot of the network kind of in the middle of everything and I don't particularly like it. I'm thinking buying a "cheap" wired-router and putting it along with the modem+server+other server-related stuff in a (large and not stuffy) closet and then placing two APs around the house. I currently have an Asus RT-68u that I would like to use an an AP as I feel it would be a waste as a wired-router. 

 

So, I'd have the modem+wired router+server in the closet and then two APs/routers in AP mode handling wifi. I would like for the wired router to have (easy to set up and use): DDNS, VPN server, and QOS; a firewall would be nice too I guess (my AC68u ticks all of these boxes, although the VPN can be painfully slow). I was looking at something like this: https://www.amazon.com/TP-LINK-TL-R600VPN-Gigabit-Broadband-Supports/dp/B007B60SCG/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=ll1&tag=mwsussex040_routers-20&linkId=1450498e214b09df5e031d81d64252d1&th=1 but I don't know if that's good or not for my use case or if there is something better. 

 

Let's say my budget is <$100, but ideally $50~ for the router. 

Just use the router you have and load a better firmware on it. https://asuswrt.lostrealm.ca/

[79wjd]

53 minutes ago, Marshnt said:

Just use the router you have and load a better firmware on it. https://asuswrt.lostrealm.ca/

The router I have has all the features I need. QOS works well and is easy to setup as is DDNS. The VPN is easy to setup, but it's very slow. There are two reasons why I would want to get a new (prosumer) router instead of using my current router. First is that I would use my router as an AP and that wouldn't be near where I want to move the modem/server/etc... to. Secondly, the VPN performance is rather poor. 

[Marshnt]

3 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

The router I have has all the features I need. QOS works well and is easy to setup as is DDNS. The VPN is easy to setup, but it's very slow. There are two reasons why I would want to get a new (prosumer) router instead of using my current router. First is that I would use my router as an AP and that wouldn't be near where I want to move the modem/server/etc... to. Secondly, the VPN performance is rather poor. 

Then you looking at either turning a extra computer in to a router or getting used pro equipment.

[luigi90210]

21 hours ago, djdwosk97 said:

The router I have has all the features I need. QOS works well and is easy to setup as is DDNS. The VPN is easy to setup, but it's very slow. There are two reasons why I would want to get a new (prosumer) router instead of using my current router. First is that I would use my router as an AP and that wouldn't be near where I want to move the modem/server/etc... to. Secondly, the VPN performance is rather poor. 

With the budget you listed in OP you won't buy anything "prosumer" that will perform better than what you already have. 

 

If you don't mind I ask why are you so against building a PFsense box/router?

[79wjd]

1 hour ago, luigi90210 said:

With the budget you listed in OP you won't buy anything "prosumer" that will perform better than what you already have. 

 

If you don't mind I ask why are you so against building a PFsense box/router?

Something like an edgerouter X/lite is capable enough for my needs according to people. My consumer router is enough for my needs with the exception of poor VPN performance.

 

And because I don't want the complexity or cost of buying or running a pfSense box.

[luigi90210]

3 hours ago, djdwosk97 said:

Something like an edgerouter X/lite is capable enough for my needs according to people. My consumer router is enough for my needs with the exception of poor VPN performance.

 

And because I don't want the complexity or cost of buying or running a pfSense box.

Cost wise a pfsense box is more in like with your budget. You would be spending at most $30 on an old PC at a thrift store if you don't have one laying around and you can buy a 4 port NIC off eBay for $20-30.  Much cheaper than an edge router and there are other router OSs out there that are essentially plug and play. Sophos Firewall XG home comes to mind and that's free. 

[79wjd]

2 hours ago, luigi90210 said:

Cost wise a pfsense box is more in like with your budget. You would be spending at most $30 on an old PC at a thrift store if you don't have one laying around and you can buy a 4 port NIC off eBay for $20-30.  Much cheaper than an edge router and there are other router OSs out there that are essentially plug and play. Sophos Firewall XG home comes to mind and that's free. 

An old system will also cost a lot more in electricity to run. An edgerouter X/lite is only $50/$90 and consumes <10w. While an old desktop would pull around 50w+, which would be about $50/year extra.

 

Edgerouter lite consumes 7w -> $8/year.

Haswell pentium system consumes about 60w at idle -> $68/year.

[79wjd]

@leadeater anything to add?

[luigi90210]

2 hours ago, djdwosk97 said:

An old system will also cost a lot more in electricity to run. An edgerouter X/lite is only $50/$90 and consumes <10w. While an old desktop would pull around 50w+, which would be about $50/year extra.

 

Edgerouter lite consumes 7w -> $8/year.

Haswell pentium system consumes about 60w at idle -> $68/year.

Well if you can find an edge router for $50 than go for that.

[leadeater]

9 hours ago, djdwosk97 said:

@leadeater anything to add?

MikroTik hEX lite $40 ish

MikroTik hEX $60 ish

MikroTik RB2011iL-IN $100 ish

 

All of the above should do the job.

 

I have a Ubnt ERLite-3 which is fine but there are a lot of things I don't like about it but most of that stuff is higher end professional/enterprise features and I'm comparing it to my FortiGate 60D which is wayyy more expensive.

 

My pick of the above 3 for your requirements would be the hEX. See if you can dig up some good comparisons of it to Ubnt and any others that are mentions.

[79wjd]

2 hours ago, leadeater said:

MikroTik hEX lite $40 ish

MikroTik hEX $60 ish

MikroTik RB2011iL-IN $100 ish

 

All of the above should do the job.

 

I have a Ubnt ERLite-3 which is fine but there are a lot of things I don't like about it but most of that stuff is higher end professional/enterprise features and I'm comparing it to my FortiGate 60D which is wayyy more expensive.

 

My pick of the above 3 for your requirements would be the hEX. See if you can dig up some good comparisons of it to Ubnt and any others that are mentions.

Any idea how easy those are to configure for someone who doesn't have the best network skills? And any idea what kind of VPN performance I would get with them? 

[leadeater]

13 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

Any idea how easy those are to configure for someone who doesn't have the best network skills? And any idea what kind of VPN performance I would get with them? 

Shouldn't be too hard to configure, they have an easy to use web interface as well as CLI. Not sure on the VPN performance since I've never used one but the AES-128 performance is specified as 472Mbps.

[CiscoFan]

Some more considerations for you, you can get a Cisco 2821... if you get it, you can get a VIC2-2FXO and then you can terminate your phone line to your router and then get some Cisco IP Phones and run those on Cisco Unified Communications Manager Express. You can also get an AIM-CUE to run a voicemail server on the router as well. If you do that you will need to put a PVDM2-64. It will all cost a total of $231 if you include a Cisco Catalyst WS-3560G-24TS. Just know you will need to do some configuration, and if you need any help, feel free to PM me.

 

The router by itself will be $55.