About to pull the trigger - HD 800s/800 or HD650? + AMP/DAC recommendations

[Lt.Speirs]

Originally, I was going to post this on head-fi but I fear for the types of answers I'd get. Hopefully the ltt crowd isn't as elitist/biased. My AKG Q701's just broke after five years of service (a truly amazing headphone with an amazing soundstage/detail might I add). It was a great headphone for gaming as well. Nevertheless, they're gone so I need something ASAP.

 

I want to preface but saying: I don't consider myself an audiophile as I'm someone who just loves my music. In saying that, I want to get the most out of my equipment.

 

As you can tell from the title, I'm not on a tight budget. For people that have first hand experience with the headphones listed: what are your thoughts? For someone that listens to basically every genre (with emphasis on film scores, classical and trance), what would be best? Also, positional audio for gaming is also important for me (just something to keep in mind).

 

What would you recommend for an AMP/DAC? Would a schiit jot + modi 2 multibit be a good pairing or would it be too bright?

 

Balanced or SE?

 

Is balanced mostly fluff?

 

Thanks!

 

 

 

[Mooshi]

I'd say for a good majority of people, the $99 Schiit Fulla 2 is all you need for a usb dac/amp tbh

[SSL]

HD 650 + Valhalla 2 + Modi 2 (Modi 2U if you have a coax source) would be a nice combo. Or, HD 650 + Jotunheim + Modi MB. Either combination will create a very nice system, both enhancing the strengths of the HD 650 and/or making up for weaknesses.

 

My experience with the HD 650 + Valhalla 2 is outlined in the review in my sigline. I will say here that the sense of space, layering, and imaging in this combo is really quite remarkable. All things which will enhance any genre of music, but particularly film scores, classical, and other acoustic music.

 

I'm not terribly familiar with the HD 800, but it is certainly a bright headphone. Out of the Schiit line, your best bets would be the Vali 2, Valhalla 2, or Mjolnir 2.

[Dackzy]

Have you heard any of the headphones? They sound very differently

Also, the HD 800 and HD800s are very picky when it comes to the amp. I would say the HD 800's are a better buy because with some simple mods you can make them quite a bit better than the HD800s'

[Lt.Speirs]

3 minutes ago, Dackzy said:

Have you heard any of the headphones? They sound very differently

Also, the HD 800 and HD800s are very picky when it comes to the amp. I would say the HD 800's are a better buy because with some simple mods you can make them quite a bit better than the HD800s'

Not extensively but I briefly demo'd the HD800(non s) when I purchased my Q701's a few years back. They sounded fantastic despite the stores rather limited music selection (it was most jazz so it played to the HD800's strengths) I'm guessing the owner had it setup like this for a reason

 

I can't say for certain if they would excel with my library though.

 

 

[Dackzy]

11 minutes ago, Lt.Speirs said:

Not extensively but I briefly demo'd the HD800(non s) when I purchased my Q701's a few years back. They sounded fantastic despite the stores rather limited music selection (it was most jazz so it played to the HD800's strengths) I'm guessing the owner had it setup like this for a reason

 

I can't say for certain if they would excel with my library though.

 

 

the treble in the HD800's is a lot, but there are some simple mods that will fix that. I would recommend you getting a DAC and amp combo that has a darker sound or a DAC and a separate hybrid tube amp or full tube, there are some normal solid state amps that match well with the HD 800, but they are few. I would recommend trying them with the music you listen to before you buy them.

 

The HD 650's are more easy going, with their warm "lush" sound, but that might not be your thing....

(yes audio is very personal)

[spwath]

48 minutes ago, SSL said:

HD 650 + Valhalla 2 + Modi 2 (Modi 2U if you have a coax source) would be a nice combo. Or, HD 650 + Jotunheim + Modi MB. Either combination will create a very nice system, both enhancing the strengths of the HD 650 and/or making up for weaknesses.

 

My experience with the HD 650 + Valhalla 2 is outlined in the review in my sigline. I will say here that the sense of space, layering, and imaging in this combo is really quite remarkable. All things which will enhance any genre of music, but particularly film scores, classical, and other acoustic music.

 

I'm not terribly familiar with the HD 800, but it is certainly a bright headphone. Out of the Schiit line, your best bets would be the Vali 2, Valhalla 2, or Mjolnir 2.

i also have the hd650/valhalla 2, I also recommend it. Will be writing a review soon. 

 also about to demo modi multibit, see how that goes possibly purchase it.

[elira]

55 minutes ago, Lt.Speirs said:

Originally, I was going to post this on head-fi but I fear for the types of answers I'd get. Hopefully the ltt crowd isn't as elitist/biased. My AKG Q701's just broke after five years of service (a truly amazing headphone with an amazing soundstage/detail might I add). It was a great headphone for gaming as well. Nevertheless, they're gone so I need something ASAP.

 

I want to preface but saying: I don't consider myself an audiophile as I'm someone who just loves my music. In saying that, I want to get the most out of my equipment.

 

As you can tell from the title, I'm not on a tight budget. For people that have first hand experience with the headphones listed: what are your thoughts? For someone that listens to basically every genre (with emphasis on film scores, classical and trance), what would be best? Also, positional audio for gaming is also important for me (just something to keep in mind).

 

What would you recommend for an AMP/DAC? Would a schiit jot + modi 2 multibit be a good pairing or would it be too bright?

 

Balanced or SE?

 

Is balanced mostly fluff?

 

Thanks!

 

 

 

Jotunheim + HD800(s) is a good combination, and you can add a better dac later if you want.

 

In the schiitshow they had this combination in many stations, not sure if the 800 or 800s but it sounded good. I personally don't like the sennheiser sound, I think you should try them before buying.

 

Regarding balanced vs single ended, I don't have a specific preference, but if you opt for a Jotunheim you just need a balanced cable to try it by yourself.

[aithos]

35 minutes ago, SSL said:

HD 650 + Valhalla 2 + Modi 2 (Modi 2U if you have a coax source) would be a nice combo. Or, HD 650 + Jotunheim + Modi MB. Either combination will create a very nice system, both enhancing the strengths of the HD 650 and/or making up for weaknesses.

 

My experience with the HD 650 + Valhalla 2 is outlined in the review in my sigline. I will say here that the sense of space, layering, and imaging in this combo is really quite remarkable. All things which will enhance any genre of music, but particularly film scores, classical, and other acoustic music.

 

I'm not terribly familiar with the HD 800, but it is certainly a bright headphone. Out of the Schiit line, your best bets would be the Vali 2, Valhalla 2, or Mjolnir 2.

This is solid advice.  I don't always agree with people and taste is subjective but this is a good starting point.

 

A couple things I'd add/expand on:

 

1) The HD800s is extremely good with the right amplification, but it's several times as expensive and is frankly too bright for gaming.  The sound-stage will make the positional audio good, but any GOOD pair of audiophile headphones will be more than sufficient for even the most competitive level of gaming.  In your situation I wouldn't recommend them.

 

2) In my opinion you're better off getting two distinct mid-range pairs of headphones (one open, one closed) than a single pair of "flagship" headphones until you're more familiar with audio and know exactly what you want from your setup.  For less than the cost of a single pair of HD800s you can get a complete setup like I have at home (HD650's, Fostex TH-X00's) that will be very good for general purpose (gaming, music, streaming content, etc) with the HD650's and also very good for heavier music and content (EDM, rock/metal, etc) with the TH-X00's.

 

If you have any questions don't hesitate to ask!

[Lt.Speirs]

One more question @SSL if you don't mind. Do you find the HD650's to be veiled at all? This term gets tossed around quite often so I'm a little confused: does that mean they lack clarity/detail?

 

 

[elira]

37 minutes ago, Lt.Speirs said:

One more question @SSL if you don't mind. Do you find the HD650's to be veiled at all? This term gets tossed around quite often so I'm a little confused: does that mean they lack clarity/detail?

 

 

I know I'm not @SSL but I can give you my opinion, I feel the HD6XX "veiled" (HD6XX are virtually the same as the HD650). There's plenty of detail and clarity but the sound doesn't feel direct like in a pair of Grados. I think it's part of the sound signature of the sennheiser, you should try them before buying.

[Lt.Speirs]

13 minutes ago, elira said:

I know I'm not @SSL but I can give you my opinion, I feel the HD6XX "veiled" (HD6XX are virtually the same as the HD650). There's plenty of detail and clarity but the sound doesn't feel direct like in a pair of Grados. I think it's part of the sound signature of the sennheiser, you should try them before buying.

Thank you kindly, will do!

[SSL]

1 hour ago, Lt.Speirs said:

One more question @SSL if you don't mind. Do you find the HD650's to be veiled at all? This term gets tossed around quite often so I'm a little confused: does that mean they lack clarity/detail?

 

 

 

No.

 

I cannot emphasize this enough, but "veiled" is not a term that I can use with the HD 650. Keep in mind that I also came from extensive, extensive ear time with the DT 880 and HE 560 which are some of the "clearest" headphones out there. I also recently purchased the Sierra 2 bookshelf speakers, which are exceptionally clear and resolving. The HD 650 still doesn't seem veiled to me. Keep in mind that amp and DAC pairing may or may not have an effect on this perception. Pad wear is also an important factor, as older, compressed pads increase the low end.

 

What I do find is that the HD 650 is warm - it's definitely has a little more than is neutral in the low midrange. I guess that some people may interpret this as a "veil". 

 

My view is that many if not most headphones are too bright or too forward compared to speakers, so take these impressions in that context.

[elira]

1 hour ago, SSL said:

My view is that many if not most headphones are too bright or too forward compared to speakers, so take these impressions in that context.

 

[SSL]

11 minutes ago, elira said:

 

 

 

Well you referenced Grado, and we all know what their treble situation is like.

[spwath]

24 minutes ago, SSL said:

 

Well you referenced Grado, and we all know what their treble situation is like.

 my measurements, and the fact that my grados are somwhere under a pile of clothes, speaks for itself.

[elira]

1 hour ago, spwath said:

 my measurements, and the fact that my grados are somwhere under a pile of clothes, speaks for itself.

Yeah, that looks like a typical frequency response graph from a pair of grados. And you can see how the hd650 go down at about 5kHz and the Grados go up, and it makes a very noticeable difference between them. So if your reference point is the HD650 then the Grados are obviously too bright, if your reference is the Grados then you perceive then sennheisers as "veiled" .

[SSL]

27 minutes ago, elira said:

Yeah, that looks like a typical frequency response graph from a pair of grados. And you can see how the hd650 go down at about 5kHz and the Grados go up, and it makes a very noticeable difference between them. So if your reference point is the HD650 then the Grados are obviously too bright, if your reference is the Grados then you perceive then sennheisers as "veiled" .

 

Or, your reference is a pair of good speakers with +/-2dB throughout the frequency range. The HD 650 certainly isn't perfect and could be even smoother than it already is.