Windows 10 vs Windows 7

[EasonIDontKnowAnything]

What could windows 10 offer me that windows 7 can't. Right now I'm using Windows 7 Ultimate which is 10/10 should I  upgrade.

[Guest]

Cortana

Automatic Windows update

Game Mode

Bragging rights

Google it

[SCHISCHKA]

you can download ram

[Delicieuxz]

Unless you want to use UWP apps or something, I can't think of why someone with Windows 7 would need Windows 10, since, for the most part, they're the same, and what's different isn't particularly better on Windows 10.

 

I have both 7 and 10 installed right now, but I use Windows 7 as my main OS.

 

[Gameborn]

in core windows 10 is much more advanced and modular. and it have support for latest software/hardware (for gamers mainly dx12 and full skylake/kaby lake and ryzen support)

[cj09beira]

it offers key logging, adds on file explorer, all image file names you open sent to microsoft, and a lot of other data logging all this linked to you by your cpu serial number and your mac address 

[ARikozuM]

Why not make a VM and test it out for yourself?

Just make an image of your current system with Macrium Reflect. While waiting for that, get Virtualbox.

Once done, make the image into a VHD with Reflect.

Start the VM as usual. Get the Windows 10 for Assistive Features and install to the VM.

[GoodBytes]

On 4/22/2017 at 11:51 AM, EasonIDontKnowAnything said:

What could windows 10 offer me that windows 7 can't. Right now I'm using Windows 7 Ultimate which is 10/10 should I  upgrade.

To provide you with the correct information, and not crap like most of above:

 

Windows 10 has a massive amount of features over Windows 7 which you can care or not. However, if you are: "I just do gaming, and treat my PC as a Console, and do nothing else, what Windows 10 gives me that I am missing out?", then the answer is nothing. MSDOS will meet your needs (ok it would lack DirectX, and all that... but you get my point).

 

The list is extensive, so here is a short version:

• Lighter, faster, and more responsive.
• Much improved Windows Update
• Improved Task Manager, making is easier to use and more understandable.
• Linux subsystem (Ubuntu 16 LTS). Yes, you can run Linux programs on your Windows system.
• GameMode - A mode which makes Windows focus more time and prioritizing your game
• Edge web browser
• Ability to run Universal Apps. Great selection of apps: Groove Music, Mail, Calendar, Facebook, Facebook Messenger, Twitter, News, Wheatear, XBox, SlingTV, Netflix, Hulu, Instagram, Skype, Fitbit, Maps (GPS required for turn-by-turn navigation) and many more. As for games (some of these games are on Steam): Forza Motorsports 6, Halo Wars: Definitive Edition, Halo Wars 2, Ultimate Edition, Voodoo Vince: Remastered, Gears of Wars 4, Forza Horizon 3, Killer Instinct, Deadrising 4, Rise of the Tomb Raider, and more. Basically: If it published by Microsoft and on XBox One, Microsoft releases the game on Win10. Buy the game once, play on both systems.
• Buy eBooks, Rent/Buy Movies and TV shows, buy music.
• Cortana
• 2x2 and 2x1 window snapping
• Virtual desktops
• Windows Precision Touchpad Drivers (on supported systems)
• New start menu
• OneDrive integration
• Sync your system settings between your Windows 10 powered devices
• Increased security
• Windows Defender (aka: Microsoft Security Essentials just renamed). Improved and integrated to the OS.
• Paint3D
• Improved File Explorer
• Share feature
• Action Center panel
• Power User Menu (Win+X or right-click on Start button)
• Decoupled svchost, degrouping services for easier debugging, increase transparency, improve security, and allow recovery of failed services without affecting other parts of the system.
• Hyper-V (Pro edition)
• Power Management improvements (more coming end of the year)
• Direct share feedback with Microsoft related to the OS via the Feedback Hub. (Yes, MS reads it, considers it, and changes are applied based on that, including reported bug to be fixed, and gets fixed)
• View PDFs (via Edge)
• View ePubs (via Edge)
• FLAC, MKV, and many more video and audio format supported
• SMS/MMS from your PC (Windows 10 Mobile needed... Android coming soon?!? (partially supports it as of now) No iPhone support due to the locked down OS)
• Phone notification sync (Windows 10 Mobile needed. Android has partial support as we speak. No iPhone support due to the locked down OS)
• Ink Workspace
• Improved Sticky Notes
• Miracast phone or other devices to your PC via the Connect app
• Windows Hello support (supported hardware needed)
• Game DVR support
• Game Broadcast support  - with webcam and chat support (Beam service)
• Night Light
• Mixed Reality (VR/AR) support
• Improved Muti-monitor support
• Improved High-DPI support
• 4K displays support
• Native 802.11ad support
• Native USB 3.0 support
• Dynamic Lock (Lock your PC as you walk away. It connects to your phone via Bluetooth, as you walk away with your phone, Windows detects that and locks your PC)
• Pin login
• Picture password login
• File History Backup system (allows you to go back in time on a file, folder and drive, recover files, undo encryptions by randsomware, etc)
• On screen Volume display
• On screen Brightness display (ACPI displays only: laptops, tablets)
• Remote Desktop Host improvement (transparency support, video playback support, DirectX and OpenGL support (can technically stream games. But not designed for this)).
• Burn ISOs
• Much improved file collision system
• Much improved disk repair scan
• Ability to pause/resume file transfers
• Auto switch from Wireless to Wired or back
• 'Instant' wake up from sleep
• Fast Startup
• UEFI support (Win7 only support EFI booting)
• Improved SSD support
• Improved Windows Shell (GUI) rendering engine
• More detail File transfer info
• Easier activation
• Massive improvement on the accessibility tools
• Find my device

and more..

[ARikozuM]

4 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

snip

Why do you and I have different definitions of "short"? Unless you meant short story, in which case, yes it was.

[GoodBytes]

45 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

Why do you and I have different definitions of "short"? Unless you meant short story, in which case, yes it was.

It was to add a bit of humor

[Czeekaj]

However, windows 10 does carry some bad 'features' with it, increased telemitry (gameDvr I really Dislike) If I wanted Xbox I'd buy one, forced downloading and uploading, also Cortana and Edge which are just glorified bing portals.
However if you use a good firewall maybe it can be pretty secure system, but I feel windows 10 is one of the best stability wise. However the the upgrades arn't backwards compatable as they will start moving more forward so be prepared for decreased compatability and support for windows 7 down the road. As it seems to be the case for newer hardware even with usb3 workarounds.

[Delicieuxz]

On 2017-4-22 at 10:21 AM, GoodBytes said:

• Sticky Notes

What makes Windows 10's Sticky Notes that much better than Windows 7's (besides the improved default font, which I think was changed in the AU patch... finally)?

[GoodBytes]

14 minutes ago, Delicieuxz said:

What makes Windows 10's Sticky Notes that much better than Windows 7's (besides the improved default font, which I think was changed in the AU patch... finally)?

They made it more sticky thanks to their new and improved glue.

But seriously, they integrated Cortana (if you want), so it can detect reminders and such highlight in blue to show you it understood, and adds a reminder. And, they have added ink support for pen.

 

[EasonIDontKnowAnything]

6 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

They made it more sticky thanks to their new and improved glue.

But seriously, they integrated Cortana (if you want), so it can detect reminders and such highlight in blue to show you it understood, and adds a reminder. And, they have added ink support for pen.

 

but ignoring all these things 10 is just the same as 7 with improvements right?

[ARikozuM]

Just now, EasonIDontKnowAnything said:

but ignoring all these things 10 is just the same as 7 with improvements right?

7 is like 10, except worse...

 

Yes, it is better.

[GoodBytes]

3 hours ago, EasonIDontKnowAnything said:

but ignoring all these things 10 is just the same as 7 with improvements right?

 

Yes. Windows 10 does include performance and security upgrade.

[EasonIDontKnowAnything]

4 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

 

Yes. Windows 10 does include performance and security upgrade.

So for the price of 10 USD should I buy it

[GoodBytes]

1 hour ago, EasonIDontKnowAnything said:

So for the price of 10 USD should I buy it

The decision is yours. You are asking a guy that seeks to have all software fully up-to-date as possible., I even joined the Insider program of Windows 10 to get weekly (on avg) builds of an in development OS. So I am not the person to answer you, as i'll say yes, even if it is $120 usd

[Kinda Bottlenecked]

Its a good OS. There's no denying to it. If it weren't for my specific use case, I wouldn't have hated it that much at all. 

 

Basically, I'd use win 10 for my carry around low spec laptop OS. But when I need more control of stuff windows 7 still is the best one. 

 

Other than that, the experience of the 2 OSs don't really differ much. 

 

1 hour ago, EasonIDontKnowAnything said:

So for the price of 10 USD should I buy it

 

I'd buy it even if I weren't using it. A cheap key can come in handy. 

[dangeredwolf]

On 2017-4-22 at 1:21 PM, GoodBytes said:

To provide you with the correct information, and not crap like most of above:

 

• Easier activation
• Massive improvement on the accessibility tools
• Find my device

and more..

 

Most of this I agree with, except

-GameMode does not actually improve performance at all (sometimes even making it worse), LTT tested this out and the video is available right now on Floatplane (it's coming to YouTube very soon)

-Increased security is quite vague

-Windows Defender is already available on Windows 7, but it's greatly improved in Windows 8 , 8.1, and 10

-Windows 7 already has 2x1 window snapping (but not 2x2)

-Windows 7 already has Action Centre (but has been changed a lot in Windows 10)

-Windows 7 already has sticky notes

-Windows 7 already supports 4K monitors. It can scale to any resolution the monitor supports

-Windows 7 already has Backup and Restore, but Windows 8+'s File History has numerous improvements over it, and it has a much simpler UI, making it function more closely to Apple's Time Machine

-Windows 7 already burns ISOs

-What do you even mean by file collision system?

-Windows 7 already handles switching between network connections

-Instant wake from sleep isn't a new Windows 10 feature: It's just an ACPI feature we've had for years

-Windows 7 has some, but limited, UEFI support

-Since when can Remote Desktop allow OpenGL and DX usage? I've never gotten that working despite having a Windows 10 host and a Windows 10 client. It already supported transparency, though.

-The Windows 10 File Transfer dialog isn't exactly "more detailed" than before, but it does have a very nice looking, as well as beautiful, graph.

-Windows 10's accessibility features have hardly changed at all. The on screen keyboard has a new interface in Windows 8 or later, but that's the only improvement I've seen.

-"Easier Activation" only applies to OEM PCs with product keys embedded in the UEFI BIOS, or if you're reinstalling Windows on the same PC. Otherwise, the activation process is mostly unchanged, although Windows 10 is more sensitive to hardware changes.

 

Some things to add, though:

-TRIM support for SSDs in the Optimise Drives utility

-Support for improved file compression using the LZX algorithm. However, they will uncompress if a program writes to it again, and LZX compressed files can't be viewed on anything below Windows 10.

-Related to the point above: Windows 10 now has a "Compact OS" mode where most of the system files are compressed using LZX to make Windows much much lighter on drive space: ideal for SSD boot drives. Although LZX is CPU intensive to compress, in terms of decompression it's actually very fast and CPU-light.

-Many parts of control panel have been moved into the settings app, though Control Panel is still available.

-Windows 10 has DirectX 12 support

-Windows 10 has WDDM 2.0, 2.1, and 2.2 support (depending on the release version you're running)

-Greatly improved touch support

-Tablet mode

-Task View, which allows you to see an overview of all the windows you have open (it's also where you find the virtual desktops, and also looks oddly similar to Apple's Mission Control. Whether that's a good or bad thing is up to you)

-Windows 10 is the only officially supported OS by Microsoft on Ryzen and Kaby Lake CPUs (though this means nothing because you can still install 8.1 and 7 on those platforms just fine)

-Beautiful new icons even in the standard desktop mode, for everything from file explorer, folders, file types, and pretty much everywhere across the operating system

-DWM is always force-enabled

-When opening Properties for a disk drive in File Explorer, it has a new style for the free vs. used space graph

 

And probably some others.

 

To GoodBytes: feel free to incorporate the things I've added into your own list to make it more complete

[GoodBytes]

18 minutes ago, dangeredwolf said:

Most of this I agree with, except

-GameMode does not actually improve performance at all (sometimes even making it worse), LTT tested this out and the video is available right now on Floatplane (it's coming to YouTube very soon)

Game Mode for Win32 games allocates more process time to the game before switching to other processes, and depriorities other processes on the back. If you have a 6 core fancy spec computer, and you close all your software when playing a game. This feature will not give you anything. Any fluctuation in performance will be benchmark errors. It is designed for older system, weak systems, or those doing things on the back which they don't want to close or interrupt, minimizing the impact of the game.

 

Game More for UWP games cuts out many layers of UWP framework to allow the game to be closer to the hardware allowing it to provide the same performance as if it was a Win32 made game. Again, the impact is minimal to not at all, if you have a fancy computer that can handle all that to start with.

 

18 minutes ago, dangeredwolf said:

-Increased security is quite vague

You can go through yourself the long list of security fixes and improvement available for Windows 10. I won't be listing a list. I have better things to do than to waste a weekend on it.

 

18 minutes ago, dangeredwolf said:

-Windows Defender is already available on Windows 7, but it's greatly improved in Windows 8 , 8.1, and 10

Windows Defender under Windows 7, and Windows Defender on Windows 8/10 are 2 different things. Windows Defender on Windows 7 is just a way for Microsoft to push popular malware removal. Windows 10 Defender, is Microsoft Security Essentials of Windows 7 made better with better algorithms, plus an actual malware scanner, although still basics (Malwarebytes will be far better choice). While better, it still aims to provide protection to those who uses no protection at all, or used expired trial security software which are disabled, or won't remove anything until you pay.

Thanks for adding to the list.

 

 

18 minutes ago, dangeredwolf said:

-Windows 7 already has 2x1 window snapping (but not 2x2)

I know this. That is why I didn't say "it has Aero Snap", I said it has "2x2" snapping, and you can do 2x1 snapping.

 

18 minutes ago, dangeredwolf said:

-Windows 7 already has Action Centre (but has been changed a lot in Windows 10)

Windows 7 doesn't have the Action Center. It has a panel CALLED Action Center, but that is just by name. It is now called Maintenance and Security panel. Action Center is like you phone action center. It shows you notifications of apps, and allows you to quickly turn on and off things like: Wireless, Quiet Hours (another new feature), Night Light, VPN (for supported VPN), Project, Tablet Mode, and more.

 

18 minutes ago, dangeredwolf said:

-Windows 7 already has sticky notes

Oops, I mean "Improved Sticky Notes". Corrected my post. What's improved:  It has  Pen support and Cortana integration to detect appointment or reminders you write/type on it.

 

18 minutes ago, dangeredwolf said:

-Windows 7 already supports 4K monitors. It can scale to any resolution the monitor supports

Working does not mean support. And actually my bad, I meant 8K support. After 200% scale, and even in between scales, many Windows 7 icons and elements don't appear right. Also, it doesn't have good DPI scaling compared to Windows 10, not to mention the compatibility options for unsupported programs.

 

18 minutes ago, dangeredwolf said:

-Windows 7 already has Backup and Restore, but Windows 8+'s File History has numerous improvements over it, and it has a much simpler UI, making it function more closely to Apple's Time Machine

Not really. Windows 7 Pro and up has "File History" like feature. But there is no way to actually backup the data somewhere else, and has extreamly limited control on what data to backup, and has no way to resume a backup from a clean install, or anything. Also, a simple API command will wipe it all, making it useless for any backup purposes. Windows 10 is significantly improved, and more powerful, and flexible over Windows 7, making it actually useful for backups.

 

18 minutes ago, dangeredwolf said:

-Windows 7 already burns ISOs

I stand corrected. I meant burning any CDs or DVDs. Not ISOs only. Windows 7 could only burn ISOs. So even better

 

18 minutes ago, dangeredwolf said:

-What do you even mean by file collision system?

https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/b8/2011/08/23/improving-our-file-management-basics-copy-move-rename-and-delete/

 

18 minutes ago, dangeredwolf said:

-Windows 7 already handles switching between network connections

Yes, I stand corrected. I got confused with the mobile broadband switch with a better (free) connection, such as your home wireless as you arrive home.

 

18 minutes ago, dangeredwolf said:

-Instant wake from sleep isn't a new Windows 10 feature: It's just an ACPI feature we've had for years

Incorrect.  You can find many benchmarks showing this. Here is one from a quick Googling:

 

18 minutes ago, dangeredwolf said:

-Windows 7 has some, but limited, UEFI support

The article assumes that the Dell GUI interface is UEFI. But its not. It's a hacked-up EFI. Dell is REALLLLLY good at making BIOSes. You can find impressive looking BIOSes from Del back in Windows XP and Vista days. Windows 7 EFI, meaning it supports GPT booting, and 3TB or larger HDDs. That is about it.

 

18 minutes ago, dangeredwolf said:

-Since when can Remote Desktop allow OpenGL and DX usage? I've never gotten that working despite having a Windows 10 host and a Windows 10 client. It already supported transparency, though.

 

18 minutes ago, dangeredwolf said:

-The Windows 10 File Transfer dialog isn't exactly "more detailed" than before, but it does have a very nice looking, as well as beautiful, graph.

And that is.... more details. My point exactly. You also have a percentage, not just a bar showing you the progress.

 

18 minutes ago, dangeredwolf said:

-Windows 10's accessibility features have hardly changed at all. The on screen keyboard has a new interface in Windows 8 or later, but that's the only improvement I've seen.

https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/12/02/making-microsoft-products-more-accessible-what-to-expect-in-2017/

https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/07/01/making-progress-on-accessibility-with-the-windows-10-anniversary-update/

 

18 minutes ago, dangeredwolf said:

-"Easier Activation" only applies to OEM PCs with product keys embedded in the UEFI BIOS, or if you're reinstalling Windows on the same PC. Otherwise, the activation process is mostly unchanged, although Windows 10 is more sensitive to hardware changes.

Once you install Windows 10 on your system (Retail or System Builder OEM (the OEM you buy in stores.. not Dell, HP, etc.. OEM)) for the first time, and create or login with your Microsoft account, the product key is stored on that account. Next time you reinstall Windows 10, you can pick "I don't have a key" in the setup screen, and once you add your Microsoft account to the system, Windows Activation Server will see that the product key stored in your account is associated to this PC before, and activates. You never had to enter that product key

 

 

[dangeredwolf]

On 2017-4-29 at 1:38 PM, GoodBytes said:

Game Mode for Win32 games allocates more process time to the game before switching to other processes, and depriorities other processes on the back. If you have a 6 core fancy spec computer, and you close all your software when playing a game. This feature will not give you anything. Any fluctuation in performance will be benchmark errors. It is designed for older system, weak systems, or those doing things on the back which they don't want to close or interrupt, minimizing the impact of the game.

 

Game More for UWP games cuts out many layers of UWP framework to allow the game to be closer to the hardware allowing it to provide the same performance as if it was a Win32 made game. Again, the impact is minimal to not at all, if you have a fancy computer that can handle all that to start with.

 

You can go through yourself the long list of security fixes and improvement available for Windows 10. I won't be listing a list. I have better things to do than to waste a weekend on it.

 

Windows Defender under Windows 7, and Windows Defender on Windows 8/10 are 2 different things. Windows Defender on Windows 7 is just a way for Microsoft to push popular malware removal. Windows 10 Defender, is Microsoft Security Essentials of Windows 7 made better with better algorithms, plus an actual malware scanner, although still basics (Malwarebytes will be far better choice). While better, it still aims to provide protection to those who uses no protection at all, or used expired trial security software which are disabled, or won't remove anything until you pay.

Thanks for adding to the list.

 

 

I know this. That is why I didn't say "it has Aero Snap", I said it has "2x2" snapping, and you can do 2x1 snapping.

 

Windows 7 doesn't have the Action Center. It has a panel CALLED Action Center, but that is just by name. It is now called Maintenance and Security panel. Action Center is like you phone action center. It shows you notifications of apps, and allows you to quickly turn on and off things like: Wireless, Quiet Hours (another new feature), Night Light, VPN (for supported VPN), Project, Tablet Mode, and more.

 

Oops, I mean "Improved Sticky Notes". Corrected my post. What's improved:  It has  Pen support and Cortana integration to detect appointment or reminders you write/type on it.

 

Working does not mean support. And actually my bad, I meant 8K support. After 200% scale, and even in between scales, many Windows 7 icons and elements don't appear right. Also, it doesn't have good DPI scaling compared to Windows 10, not to mention the compatibility options for unsupported programs.

 

Not really. Windows 7 Pro and up has "File History" like feature. But there is no way to actually backup the data somewhere else, and has extreamly limited control on what data to backup, and has no way to resume a backup from a clean install, or anything. Also, a simple API command will wipe it all, making it useless for any backup purposes. Windows 10 is significantly improved, and more powerful, and flexible over Windows 7, making it actually useful for backups.

 

I stand corrected. I meant burning any CDs or DVDs. Not ISOs only. Windows 7 could only burn ISOs. So even better

 

https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/b8/2011/08/23/improving-our-file-management-basics-copy-move-rename-and-delete/

 

Yes, I stand corrected. I got confused with the mobile broadband switch with a better (free) connection, such as your home wireless as you arrive home.

 

Incorrect.  You can find many benchmarks showing this. Here is one from a quick Googling:

 

The article assumes that the Dell GUI interface is UEFI. But its not. It's a hacked-up EFI. Dell is REALLLLLY good at making BIOSes. You can find impressive looking BIOSes from Del back in Windows XP and Vista days. Windows 7 EFI, meaning it supports GPT booting, and 3TB or larger HDDs. That is about it.

 

 

And that is.... more details. My point exactly. You also have a percentage, not just a bar showing you the progress.

 

https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/12/02/making-microsoft-products-more-accessible-what-to-expect-in-2017/

https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2016/07/01/making-progress-on-accessibility-with-the-windows-10-anniversary-update/

 

Once you install Windows 10 on your system (Retail or System Builder OEM (the OEM you buy in stores.. not Dell, HP, etc.. OEM)) for the first time, and create or login with your Microsoft account, the product key is stored on that account. Next time you reinstall Windows 10, you can pick "I don't have a key" in the setup screen, and once you add your Microsoft account to the system, Windows Activation Server will see that the product key stored in your account is associated to this PC before, and activates. You never had to enter that product key

 

 

The LTT video thankfully came out now, demonstrating the actual performance of Game Mode vs. Non-Game Mode. 

 

[GoodBytes]

6 hours ago, dangeredwolf said:

The LTT video thankfully came out now, demonstrating the actual performance of Game Mode vs. Non-Game Mode. 

 

I don't trust Linus testing. For instance, I know he like to use FRAPS on everything. Sadly, FRAPS does fps averages, not direct fps calculations.

I want to see testing from others. No one noticed performance drops anywhere when the features was tested here by people. Either it is within margin of error (so no change), or a slight increase. And again, Microsoft never said that it boost gaming performance. They said that it allocates more resources to the game. Meaning the OS can do 2 things:

 1- Give higher CPU priority for the game, and lower the rest.

 2- Give more processing time for the game over the rest of the processes.

 

Meaning, if you do background things, at the same time as gaming, your game performance hit will be diminished. That is all.

Linus test was about closing every single program, which he claims most do, while in the reality that is not the case, and seeing if there are any benefits.

His test should have involved doing a video rendering, and playing a game at the same time. That would have been a correct test of the feature.

 

Another problem also, is that FRAPS is a separate process. Meaning, it gets lower priority when calculating the fps due to Game Mode, which means that they are chances that it adds latency, falsifying the results. How about comparing games with a built-in fps counter?

[Czeekaj]

If they wanted a gaming mode I'd think they'd just need to repackage a windows 10 image with less features that have anything or nothing do with gaming like Ink and the like.

 

Good way to test is if a moniter has a built in FPS tracker too.

[GoodBytes]

6 minutes ago, Czeekaj said:

If they wanted a gaming mode I'd think they'd just need to repackage a windows 10 image with less features that have anything or nothing do with gaming like Ink and the like.

 

Good way to test is if a moniter has a built in FPS tracker too.

Sure.. but all removal this doesn't help games in any way. On this forum, I have did these test personally, and for work several years later with different version of Windows, and a user on this forum did this extensive benchmark research, and the results are all the identical. 0 differences.

 

Programs on your HDD/SSD doesn't slow things down. Actively running programs taking up CPU or GPU resources does affect gaming. You can have 200 background programs, but if they all do nothing, well.. they do nothing,.. they just consume some RAM, but assuming you have enougth RAM for your game, you'll get full performance our of your games with your hardware.