AIO vs Tower for OC

[Sin Stalker]

In another thread I was convinced to go for a Xeon to replace my i7 930, and to overclock that. I'm convinced and looking at the E5675, 5680 and 5690. 

 

When I look at sites like cpuboss when comparing these, I will see OC numbers based on water vs air. For instance comparing the 5690 to the 5680, I see one overclocked better with air vs water. 

 

Does this mean air towers are sometimes better than AIOs? Or is there something about the comparison that I'm missing?

 

 

Part 2: I've been advised to get either the Kraken X63 or an option of three tower coolers that include a noctua dh-15. I've never used an aftermarket cooler before and I am not sure which is better. Ive heard AIOs only last 2 to 4 years before the pump fails or maintenance of the liquid is required. I also am not a fan of the aesthetics for the large tower coolers, especially that puke tan and brown of the noctua. 

 

I'm planning on going balls to the walls OCing (starting slow and ramping up as I feel more comfortable) and I don't want to have to upgrade later on to a better cooler. Are these the two best after market coolers or is there something better? Please no DIY loops.

[Guest]

Just to throw it out here: cpuboss should not be trusted 

[Guest]

Depends on the cooler, most AIO (high end ones)  beats air cooler

[Cyracus]

High end AIO coolers match or exceed high end air coolers, but typically by just a few ºC, basically it comes down to how much $ you want to spend and if you're comfortable hanging a few kg of metal off your mobo. Phanteks has a cooler that performs nearly identical to noctuas d14 but comes in different colors http://www.phanteks.com/PH-TC14PE.html

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, Cyracus said:

High end AIO coolers match or exceed high end air coolers, but typically by just a few ºC, basically it comes down to how much $ you want to spend and if you're comfortable hanging a few kg of metal off your mobo. Phanteks has a cooler that performs nearly identical to noctuas d14 but comes in different colors http://www.phanteks.com/PH-TC14PE.html

Or Cryorig R1 with custom cover 

[Sin Stalker]

10 hours ago, deXxterlab97 said:

Depends on the cooler, most AIO (high end ones)  beats air cooler

I'm surprised the H100i is on top. I asked about it in the other thread and was told to go for the NZXT Kraken. But it looks like the H100 is cheaper.

 

 

9 hours ago, Strike105X said:

Personally i prefer air/tower coolers as they are great as a long time investment, my cm 212 plus cooler lasted me for  over 7 years, hell I'd still be using it in my main rig (still using it in the secondary one) if i didn't had an 8 core FX CPU which made me move to noctua nh-d15, which feels like it will last me a lifetime.

Are you overclocking?

 

I'm aiming to get a xeon 6 core and overclocking it to a minimum of 4ghz. I'd like to see how far I can push it though.

 

AIOs are also scary to me. Not as scary as a DIY water loop but still scary. Especially after seeing season 4 of SYWs and seeing how clogged the radiator Linus got, was. 

 

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, Sin Stalker said:

I'm surprised the H100i is on top. I asked about it in the other thread and was told to go for the NZXT Kraken. But it looks like the H100 is cheaper.

 

 

Are you overclocking?

 

I'm aiming to get a xeon 6 core and overclocking it to a minimum of 4ghz. I'd like to see how far I can push it though.

 

AIOs are also scary to me. Not as scary as a DIY water loop but still scary. Especially after seeing season 4 of SYWs and seeing how clogged the radiator Linus got, was. 

 

X62 is better though. But if you don't care about RGB or getting few degrees off then H100i will do

[atavax]

1 hour ago, Sin Stalker said:

I'm surprised the H100i is on top. I asked about it in the other thread and was told to go for the NZXT Kraken. But it looks like the H100 is cheaper.

IDK, you can't really take 1 benchmark and say the H100i is better. It might be better, i don't know. It is weird, for the H100i it has 3 different settings. A quiet mode, a performance mode, and a performance mode with 4 fans. What mode is every other AIO on? That benchmark does show the x61, so its a generation older, pretty sure i've read the x62 is quieter at heavier loads than the x61. And really how loud the cooler gets is going to determine how high you run it and is going to be the largest factor in just how effective its going to be, so that imo that is a big deal. One thing i like about the Kraken is it has a 6 year warranty.

 

I got a x52 kraken earlier this month. Pretty significant improvement in terms of cooling. The thing i dislike most about the switch to AIO is the software. Maybe newer and higher end motherboards don't require it, but i have a 6 year old motherboard and i need third party software always running in the background and that software was buggy as hell and made overclocking a major pain in the ass.

[Sin Stalker]

2 hours ago, deXxterlab97 said:

X62 is better though. But if you don't care about RGB or getting few degrees off then H100i will do

How is it better? I keep hearing its better but I'm not understanding how. Especially when examples can show the H100i ahead. Also, the H100i is like half the price of the X62.

 

I do love my RGB, but not an extra $75 love...

 

 

1 hour ago, atavax said:

IDK, you can't really take 1 benchmark and say the H100i is better. It might be better, i don't know. It is weird, for the H100i it has 3 different settings. A quiet mode, a performance mode, and a performance mode with 4 fans. What mode is every other AIO on? That benchmark does show the x61, so its a generation older, pretty sure i've read the x62 is quieter at heavier loads than the x61. And really how loud the cooler gets is going to determine how high you run it and is going to be the largest factor in just how effective its going to be, so that imo that is a big deal. One thing i like about the Kraken is it has a 6 year warranty.

 

I got a x52 kraken earlier this month. Pretty significant improvement in terms of cooling. The thing i dislike most about the switch to AIO is the software. Maybe newer and higher end motherboards don't require it, but i have a 6 year old motherboard and i need third party software always running in the background and that software was buggy as hell and made overclocking a major pain in the ass.

1. 6 year warranty? That makes me feel alot better about potential pump failings.

2. I have a 7 year old board. x58 from 2010. Didn't realize I'd have to have extra software running...

 

 

1 hour ago, Strike105X said:

Was overclocking (in the middle of building a new PC), my last one was a volcano, an FX8300 with severe voltage leaking issues, just as an idea how severe it was, at 4.6Ghz a CM 212 plus couldn't keep up and at 88c i stopped the stress tests, however my Noctua NH-D15 had no problems keeping it at a max of 62c. in the long run the difference between a high end AIO and a high end tower cooler is neglijabile. Towers reach the their max temps faster but also cool faster, AIO's reach their max temps slower but also cool slower. Unless your on AMD where you also have to factor in the heat and stress created by and on the VRM's, i wouldn't worry that much and just go with what you feel better with, personally i also love the look of tower coolers, they look quite imposing XD.

Another concern though is if the Noctua (or similar) can clear my ram. It would be close if it does... but an aio would require me to get a new case now. I planned to get a new case anyways (hate my current) but with a tower, I can hold off a bit longer before spending another hundred... ><

[Guest]

Just now, Sin Stalker said:

How is it better? I keep hearing its better but I'm not understanding how. Especially when examples can show the H100i ahead. Also, the H100i is like half the price of the X62.

Oh yeah I saw GamersNexus did a review of it but I don't usally like that place

 

 

[Sin Stalker]

1 minute ago, Strike105X said:

Depends on your ram if their high profile or low, but i'd be more worried if it can fit in your case in the first place, you need 165 mm minimum for a NH-D15.

There are images online of people fitting it in the same case, barely....

 

 

Just now, deXxterlab97 said:

Oh yeah I saw GamersNexus did a review of it but I don't usally like that place

 

 

Hm. So it seems the Kraken can barely pull ahead, but is also running slower and probably quieter than the h100i....Gah!

 

Was hoping for more clear cut, get this if you want to do what you want to do and anything else will leave you with a computer on fire, type situation.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Sin Stalker said:

There are images online of people fitting it in the same case, barely....

 

 

Hm. So it seems the Kraken can barely pull ahead, but is also running slower and probably quieter than the h100i....Gah!

 

Was hoping for more clear cut, get this if you want to do what you want to do and anything else will leave you with a computer on fire, type situation.

Only a 5 degrees diff for an almost twice the price. I think you know what to choose

[Sin Stalker]

14 hours ago, deXxterlab97 said:

Just to throw it out here: cpuboss should not be trusted 

 

14 hours ago, Cyracus said:

High end AIO coolers match or exceed high end air coolers, but typically by just a few ºC, basically it comes down to how much $ you want to spend and if you're comfortable hanging a few kg of metal off your mobo. Phanteks has a cooler that performs nearly identical to noctuas d14 but comes in different colors http://www.phanteks.com/PH-TC14PE.html

 

13 hours ago, Strike105X said:

Personally i prefer air/tower coolers as they are great as a long time investment, my cm 212 plus cooler lasted me for  over 7 years, hell I'd still be using it in my main rig (still using it in the secondary one) if i didn't had an 8 core FX CPU which made me move to noctua nh-d15, which feels like it will last me a lifetime.

Here's what I was looking at :http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Xeon-X5690-vs-Intel-Xeon-X5680

 

If you scroll down, you'll see where it says "why choose this one" type section for each the 80 and 90.

 

The part I'm wondering about is why it says the 90 is better at air cooling, topping at 4.47ghz vs the 80's 4.28. Then it says the 80 has the better overclock at water cooling with 4.7 vs the 90's 3.47. Even if that's a typo and meant to be 4.7 vs 4.47...

 

So are there processors that will overclock higher with air vs water or visaversa?

 

Cause according to this, if I buy a water cooler, I'd have to go to the 5680, but if I go air, I should be hitting the 90. 

[Cyracus]

Overclocked clock speed (Water)	3.47 GHz	|	4.7 GHz
Overclocked clock speed (Air)	4.47 GHz |		4.28 GHz

 

yeah 3.47 is likely a typo, but it shows that the 5680 gets a little better on water meaning it was probably facing some thermal limitations that water helped it overcome, but the 5690 was facing Gandalf on a bridge like the balrog

[Sin Stalker]

3 hours ago, Cyracus said:

Overclocked clock speed (Water)	3.47 GHz	|	4.7 GHz
Overclocked clock speed (Air)	4.47 GHz |		4.28 GHz

 

yeah 3.47 is likely a typo, but it shows that the 5680 gets a little better on water meaning it was probably facing some thermal limitations that water helped it overcome, but the 5690 was facing Gandalf on a bridge like the balrog

So typos aside, why would the 90 do the same on water or air? Does this mean the 90 isn't as OC-able as the 80? Or is the LotR reference mean something I'm missing?

[Cyracus]

1 hour ago, Sin Stalker said:

So typos aside, why would the 90 do the same on water or air? Does this mean the 90 isn't as OC-able as the 80? Or is the LotR reference mean something I'm missing?

"You shall not pass" If you throw better cooling at the problem and get no performance gain temps are not the limiting factor, but all chips overclock differently, so your mileage may vary from what they show

[WoodenMarker]

14 hours ago, Sin Stalker said:

I'm surprised the H100i is on top.

This is because the fans are set to 'Performance Mode' which is high rpm and very loud. If you care at all about noise, this will be an unreasonable setting. 'Quiet Mode' is what you should be looking at.

The cooler also doesn't originally come with 4 fans.

9 hours ago, Sin Stalker said:

Here's what I was looking at :http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Xeon-X5690-vs-Intel-Xeon-X5680

So are there processors that will overclock higher with air vs water or visaversa?

CPUBoss has useful information but the 'water/air oc'ed speed' isn't one of them.

How well a cpu depends varies on your luck. Better cooling will mean more thermal headroom for high voltage. Liquid vs. Air doesn't matter for the resulting performance.

 

If you don't want to upgrade to another cooler later and want as much performance as possible, just get a NH-D15. It's hard to go wrong with.

[Sin Stalker]

22 hours ago, Cyracus said:

"You shall not pass" If you throw better cooling at the problem and get no performance gain temps are not the limiting factor, but all chips overclock differently, so your mileage may vary from what they show

 

18 hours ago, WoodenMarker said:

This is because the fans are set to 'Performance Mode' which is high rpm and very loud. If you care at all about noise, this will be an unreasonable setting. 'Quiet Mode' is what you should be looking at.

The cooler also doesn't originally come with 4 fans.

CPUBoss has useful information but the 'water/air oc'ed speed' isn't one of them.

How well a cpu depends varies on your luck. Better cooling will mean more thermal headroom for high voltage. Liquid vs. Air doesn't matter for the resulting performance.

 

If you don't want to upgrade to another cooler later and want as much performance as possible, just get a NH-D15. It's hard to go wrong with.

 

 

I as all ready to get a D15 (cause it will hold its value better than something with a pump), but Amazon claims it only alots for 32mm of ram clearance. Well, apparently my ram is ~40mm according to reps chat on newegg. 

 

Maybe someone here can help me verify?

This is my ram:

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231277

[Sin Stalker]

Or maybe the D15 clearance is larger than 32mm and amazon is wrong??

[Cyracus]

30 minutes ago, Sin Stalker said:

Or maybe the D15 clearance is larger than 32mm and amazon is wrong??

yeah, it's like 65mm the fan is designed to hang down past the ram cutout area, may make it a few mm taller on that front side

[WoodenMarker]

4 hours ago, Sin Stalker said:

I as all ready to get a D15 (cause it will hold its value better than something with a pump), but Amazon claims it only alots for 32mm of ram clearance. Well, apparently my ram is ~40mm according to reps chat on newegg. 

32mm clearance is available with the fan at the standard height. The fans can be raised, lowered, or moved to the other side of the heatsink to allow for taller ram.