Custom "G-sync" for non G-sync setups

[Virgule]

Hey,

 

I'm just wondering if it's possible for programmers to develop a software tool that pretty much does what g-sync hardware is supposed to do on non g-sync setups. 

 

Let me explain. NVidia will implement a gpu driven refresh rate on certified monitors that have hardware that communicates with NVidia gpus and updates in "real time" the monitor's frame rate according to the gpu's render speed.

 

Now I know software tools for imposing a specific refresh rate to your monitor already exist (like CRU). So isn't possible for programmers to create a software that does exactly what g-sync is supposed to do but with non-certified monitors (like ips panels and other PN panels not in current stream line of certified products) and non-certified gpus (i.e. amd gpus)?  If not, what about with certified monitors but with non-certified gpus?

[Hans Christian | Teri]

No.

[Virgule]

No.

Elaborate ?

[Matsy]

Elaborate ?

 

You can't do it via software since the hardware included isn't designed to do what its replaced with (the g-sync hardware) to make g-sync work.

[Hans Christian | Teri]

I am no engineer in this field but I can promise you that if it could be done, it would have been done. There's a reason why G-Sync is running on a hardware level, and that reason is that it cannot be done otherwise. Software cannot overcome hardware limitations.

[qwertywarrior]

Elaborate ?

http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/NVIDIA-G-Sync-Death-Refresh-Rate

 

read this to understand

[tristan1035]

Give me three years and a couple million dollars and I'll have it done.

[Virgule]

You can't do it via software since the hardware included isn't designed to do what its replaced with (the g-sync hardware) to make g-sync work.

We already can impose a specific refresh rate and we already can read the real time render rate of the gpu. 

 

So why isn't it possible.

[Matsy]

We already can impose a specific refresh rate and we already can read the real time render rate of the gpu. 

 

So why isn't it possible.

 

Because the monitor hardware isn't designed for it, monitors put the image on the screen in a very specific way.

The cable as-well isn't designed for that, it can't control the frequency sent down it, its just a image from the GPU sent as fast as the GPU can render it.

If g-sync could be software based, do you really think they would make it a hardware chip and go through all the hassle of having a VERY slow adoption rate, along with lots of up-front costs to manufacturer the chips as-well as only having it work with specific monitors?

[Virgule]

Because the monitor hardware isn't designed for it, monitors put the image on the screen in a very specific way.

If g-sync could be software based, do you really think they would make it a hardware chip and go through all the hassle of having a VERY slow adoption rate, along with lots of up-front costs to manufacturer the chips as-well as only having it work with specific monitors.

This is done ALL THE TIME in every field of consumer product ever. New hardware that does what the old could do if tweeked. Or, new hardware that is the same as the old but non-locked or limited.

 

But ok if the g-sync hardware changes the way the image is being acquired, it could be impossible without it. I just thought of the possibility of reaching both ends of two things already being done to mimic g-sync.

[Virgule]

because you're asking to live tune the frequency through the display connector

Not through the display connector but through software that reads the gpu's render speed.

 

I don't know if that makes sense

[DarkEcho]

Well its the stuff in the monitor that is the problem, you have to alter it to make the refresh rate variable, now if there was no hardware implementation inside a monitor to accomplish that, then how could it work unless you opened it up and changed it?

 

You have to alter the internals of the monitors from single refresh rate modes and remove all the buffering rubbish that is going on now in order to 'unlock' it. Think of it like a K vs non K series processor, the manufacturers made it that way and don't want to change it for you unless you buy a different one.

 

EDIT: Just a bit more information, Nvidia is offering kits to upgrade the old versions of the specific Asus monitor they've been showing off, the VG248QE. So you can see that the software side is the easy part, hardware is all proprietary stuff made by Nvidia

[Virgule]

Well its the stuff in the monitor that is the problem, you have to alter it to make the refresh rate variable, now if there was no hardware implementation inside a monitor to accomplish that, then how could it work unless you opened it up and changed it?

 

You have to alter the internals of the monitors from single refresh rate modes and remove all the buffering rubbish that is going on now in order to 'unlock' it. Think of it like a K vs non K series processor, the manufacturers made it that way and don't want to change it for you unless you buy a different one.

First part I totally got.

 

Your example does not apply though because in the case of non K VS K cpus, we have the same hardware but different software (or bios) limitations.

[DarkEcho]

First part I totally got.

 

Your example does not apply though because in the case of non K VS K cpus, we have the same hardware but different software (or bios) limitations.

 

Okay I was giving a poor example (shoot me now), point is Nvidia is looking to control it by using their own implementations and getting other manufacturers to support that. 

 

Think of it as the OPPOSITE of what I just said 

[lufihengr]

Well, when I change the refresh rate of my monitor, the screen goes blank for a few seconds. And no software can remove that, it's built in to the way monitors work (non G-Sync). So if you were to change the refresh rate all the time, all you would get is a blank screen.

[Virgule]

Well, when I change the refresh rate of my monitor, the screen goes blank for a few seconds. And no software can remove that, it's built in to the way monitors work (non G-Sync). So if you were to change the refresh rate all the time, all you would get is a blank screen.

Yea exactly.

[Virgule]

Hey,

 

I'm just wondering if it's possible for programmers to develop a software tool that pretty much does what g-sync hardware is supposed to do on non g-sync setups. 

 

Let me explain. NVidia will implement a gpu driven refresh rate on certified monitors that have hardware that communicates with NVidia gpus and updates in "real time" the monitor's frame rate according to the gpu's render speed.

 

Now I know software tools for imposing a specific refresh rate to your monitor already exist (like CRU). So isn't possible for programmers to create a software that does exactly what g-sync is supposed to do but with non-certified monitors (like ips panels and other PN panels not in current stream line of certified products) and non-certified gpus (i.e. amd gpus)?  If not, what about with certified monitors but with non-certified gpus?

What about this then?

[JohnnyGrey]

What about this then?

 

This would only happen if Nvidia licenses the hardware/software on the GPU side to Team Red. And I don't see that happening. Ever.

[Virgule]

This would only happen if Nvidia licenses the hardware/software on the GPU side to Team Red. And I don't see that happening. Ever.

I'm not talking about licensing anything, I'm talking about someone writing code.

[TheMissxu]

High refresh rate monitors will reduce stutter, input and frame lag. There will still be some tearing, but it should be minimal.

 

I highly doubt G-Sync will work 100% as it is designed to work, meaning you'll still get a frame or two tearing or stuttering (just much better than a low refresh monitor).

[JohnnyGrey]

I'm not talking about licensing anything, I'm talking about someone writing code.

 

You can't just write code for a piece of hardware in a GPU that just isn't there. And besides, if Nvidia has this technology patented, writing code to duplicate it would be illegal.

[Virgule]

You can't just write code for a piece of hardware in a GPU that just isn't there. And besides, if Nvidia has this technology patented, writing code to duplicate it would be illegal.

Like that ever stopped someone.

[FellTheSky]

Like that ever stopped someone.

it will

a couple years ago a guy launched a ps3 emulator that actually was working

guess what happened to him...

[Virgule]

it will

a couple years ago a guy launched a ps3 emulator that actually was working

guess what happened to him...

u serious ?

 

I've been looking for that for years! What was the sentence?

[mdrejhon]

A great way to figure out why it's is not feasiable without hardware modifications:

 

1. Watch high speed videos of traditional display refreshing:

-

-

-

 

2. Observe all the above refresh at an exact interval (synchronous), refreshing like a clock, tick-tock, exact schedule.
That's the way displays have functioned for more than 75 years, since the invention of the first televisions.  

Synchronous refreshing.

 

3. G-SYNC eliminates the exact schedule of a display refresh.  

A display can refresh at random moments.  e.g. one refresh, then another refresh 7.689 milliseconds later, then the next refresh 35.32189 milliseconds later, and so on.  The schedule is eliminated.  The exact interval is eliminated.  G-SYNC no longer refreshes on clockwork.

 

4. And G-SYNC can do it without flicker or color modulations (traditionally, different refresh rates can have different color quality: e.g. 60Hz vs 120Hz often needs different color calibration).  G-SYNC can essentially change refresh rates over 100 times a second (intervals between all refreshes can all be completely different!), without any noticeable side effects.   That's an additional, challenging engineering challenge.