OC on GPUs is practically USELESS

[papajo]

Watching recently an old video from linus tech tips 
 

I felt the need to make a topic about how useless overclocking a graphics card is.....

As you can see in the video (and in any video out there about OCing and playing games) the difference between the reference design and the top of the top classified design in games is like 3 FPS...

even if you overclock the classified design the difference with the stock reference design wont be more than like ~10 FPS... and thats without mentioning that the reference design can be OCed as well and so the already small gap between the reference design and the "SUPER OC CUSTOM PCB" design shrinks even more....

So why to encourage people buy those stupid money wasters? 

getting 70 FPS instead of 66 FPS in a games is like a ZERO practical difference on your everyday gaming....

OC in cards got to become a price changer because of how things used to be  in the past.... I remember when I had my Geforce 4200 ti and OCed  games that I previously struggled to play with (because they run at lets say 20-25 FPS) after the OC run smooth on a solid 40+ FPS!!!!  and yea that was a gain babe!!! and OC became a thing... Games used to be more clock speed bound back then... 

 

 

But today OC is just an illusion.... the reference model has a very good frame rate for all the games of its generation and the super duper custom PCB models from any brand offer only a 1 to 5 FPS difference.. but asking atleast 100$ more than the reference.... 

 

 

Its just a marketing gig nowadays and we shouldn't support it. Also linus should take the heat and make a video declaring that OC is just a nice market for those that just are into benchmark competitions and that for all the gamers out there it doesnt mean anything anymore.

 

 

 

===================================================

 

 

EDIT: To avoid misunderstanding by "reference" I mean the basic model without OC and without any extra labaling on the box like "SC/OC/FTW" etc

It doesnt have to be the stock cooler design from nvidia it only has to cost as much as the stock nvidia offer. 

[Morgan MLGman]

2 minutes ago, papajo said:

So why to encourage people buy those stupid money wasters? 

getting 70 FPS instead of 66 FPS in a games is like a ZERO practical difference on your everyday gaming....

This is where you're wrong at. Imagine that in a year you buy a new game that's more demanding for your hardware, now you get 56FPS and with an OC'd model you get stable 60 and a more enjoyable experience. The lower overall FPS the more important that gap becomes.

 

4 minutes ago, papajo said:

even if you overclock the classified design the difference with the stock reference design the difference wont be more than like ~10 FPS... and thats without mentioning that the reference design can be OCed as well and so the already small gap between the reference design and the "SUPER OC CUSTOM PCBM" design shrinks even more....

Both your and Luke's conclusions are flawed: EVGA Classified series is for people who SERIOUSLY overclock, it's for people who don't even touch the stock cooler and throw it away instantly, putting their cards under water or even LN2. A card with a completely reference PCB on average has a lower overclocking potential due to aftermarket PCBs being better in terms of power delivery and heat dissipation making them more suitable for overclocking.

For a casual gamer the best EVGA card I'd get would be the FTW version as it usually comes with a higher-quality PCB with higher-quality components and the VRM section can deliver more power to the card and hold it in a more stable way. Though remember that it doesn't matter whether it's FTW or SC cause it also depends on luck. You might get lucky and overclock a SC (Superclocked) card higher than an FTW one, that doesn't mean the FTW doesn't have any benefits over the SC.

 

9 minutes ago, papajo said:

 felt the need to make a topic about how useless overclocking a graphics card is.....

Its just a marketing gig anymore and we shouldn't support it. 

Overclocking a graphics card can yield VERY noticeable benefits. That's just not a true statement.

Also, the testing methodology is wrong IMO because EVGA cards are all almost the same in terms of cooling performance etc, but MSI or ASUS have tons of cheaper versions of their cards and they're VASTLY inferior to their top-end models.

[papajo]

17 minutes ago, Morgan MLGman said:

This is where you're wrong at. Imagine that in a year you buy a new game that's more demanding for your hardware, now you get 56FPS and with an OC'd model you get stable 60 and a more enjoyable experience. The lower overall FPS the more important that gap becomes.

Yea I can imagine but I cant imagine on where the difference is! can you tell without a number on the screen that a game runs on 56 FPS instead of 60?  (also reference models can OC as well so even after a year or two if the drop is that miniscule you can compensate for that without spending 100$ to 300$ more

 

 

 

17 minutes ago, Morgan MLGman said:

 

 

Both your and Luke's conclusions are flawed: EVGA Classified series is for people who SERIOUSLY overclock, it's for people who don't even touch the stock cooler and throw it away instantly, putting their cards under water or even LN2. A card with a completely reference PCB on average has a lower overclocking potential due to aftermarket PCBs being better in terms of power delivery and heat dissipation making them more suitable for overclocking.

For a casual gamer the best EVGA card I'd get would be the FTW version as it usually comes with a higher-quality PCB with higher-quality components and the VRM section can deliver more power to the card and hold it in a more stable way. Though remember that it doesn't matter whether it's FTW or SC cause it also depends on luck. You might get lucky and overclock a SC (Superclocked) card higher than an FTW one, that doesn't mean the FTW doesn't have any benefits over the SC.

I mentioned the classified card because its the best of the best (the upper extreme if you like) all the other cards in between are even MORE useless compared to the reference...

And people that will "SERIOUSLY" OC the reference card (in a sustainable manner so that the card can still be in the case without risking any damage to anything else) WONT get any meaningful difference instead of 3 FPS gain or so they will gain a 7 FPS or maybe a 10 FPS or so gain (and thats compared to the LOT cheaper REFERENCE model on STOCK clocks... if you clock the reference model as well the gap will be even smaller!) 

 

 

17 minutes ago, Morgan MLGman said:

Overclocking a graphics card can yield VERY noticeable benefits. That's just not a true statement.

Also, the testing methodology is wrong IMO because EVGA cards are all almost the same in terms of cooling performance etc, but MSI or ASUS have tons of cheaper versions of their cards and they're VASTLY inferior to their top-end models.

 

 

Show me results with relative current generation cards (like GTX 7 series and above or even 6 series) where OCed cards have a meaningful difference compared to the reference counterpart. 

[Ithanul]

Those higher designs are not really aimed at the casual builder nor gamer.  Those models are more for the high end OCers who like to use dry ice or nitrogen for cooling to score high on benchmarks.  Plus, always goes down to if you got a good card that can overclock high.

 

As with any hardware, some overclock like champs and others can't overclock worth crap.

[papajo]

18 minutes ago, huilun02 said:

Yes, factory overclocks are frankly speaking pathetic. The only real justification for 'higher spec' models is better componentry that add failover features and improved power delivery to achieve higher user overclocks. Yes the better quality components may not account for all that extra premium, but you have to keep in mind the manufacturer has to honor the warranty coverage for a mass produced line of product that is basically running out of spec.

 

These are not tailor made products or overclocked by hand. You would need some serious balls and confidence in the product to go out to the world and guarantee all 99999 customers a working product that runs 100Mhz above the GPU vendor standard. At that point you cannot argue that you are getting absolutely nothing for the higher spec product.

 

After all, you could always go for the basic model. As you could all along.

My point is that you spend like 100$ to 300$ over the reference model and receive NOTHING else but braging rights of having a better PCB etc..

For you as a consumer warranty amount of years in all the cases(OC,SUPERCUSTOMPCBCOMPONENTRY,reference) is the same. and perfomance is practically the same! Even if you are an experienced gamer you wont ever notice a difference in your everyday gaming between the BEST costum PCB super OCed model compared to your much cheaper reference card... yes the numbers are higher but not in a meaningful way... its just a marketing bait to make you spend more.

[sazrocks]

14 minutes ago, papajo said:

My point is that you spend like 100$ to 300$ over the reference model and receive NOTHING else but braging rights of having a better PCB etc..

Really? Nothing? That's a bold statement. How about thermals? How about noise? This is especially relevant to the refrence cards that you say can overclock just fine. Let's say you're right for the moment. You overclock a reference card to the same performance as an aftermarket FTW card. Sure, they both have the same performance, but which one would you rather have in your computer? The one that sounds like a jet engine and is running at 90C, reducing the life of the card, or the one that is quiet as a whisper running at a cool 65C?

[Carclis]

People don't buy factory OC models for the OC funnily enough. It's more about thermals, noise levels and ability to keep the card in check so that it doesn't throttle. Also throw in the fact that reference cards are now known as Founders Edition cards and more expensive and it becomes a no brainer for buyers to go for OC cards.

[agent_x007]

OP : So basicly you just figured out that a Hxx based MB, is as good as Zxx board for people that don't overclock...

@sazrocks It's not THAT bad on reference (but that depends on ears you got and GPU/Cooler itself ;)).
Also, technology like NV Turbo Boost "likes" cool running GPU - True.
BUT only up to Power Target point, after which you gain nothing (if its not modified by manufacturer).

[GitGud]

Never liked OCing myself, shortens the life span of VRMs and capacitors for a small of gain of performance.

[ivan134]

You seem confused friend.

[BuckGup]

Totally worth it. You don't have to go insane but extra performance is always a plus. Why get 101FPS when you can get 134FPS and it looks much better on a 144hz monitor?

[GitGud]

Just now, Arokhantos said:

 

Watercool it

Too much hard work maintaining a custom loop, not mentioning the costs.

[papajo]

2 hours ago, huilun02 said:

Pfft did you even read my reply?

Do you really think the people who buy an expensive Kingpin card are going to complain about the factory OC?

did you even read my post? I said that I mention the top of the top in custom OC cards to display the uselessness obviously everything else in between is included AND WORSE in terms of price/perfomance than the top shelf custom cards or in other words what about people that buy the basic FTW edition? are those just one or three dudes that are buying the cards to set a record on generic benchmarks? especially those people (with just card like a FTW edition) pay 50 to 150$ more to get NOTHING or 1-3 FPS add...

[papajo]

23 minutes ago, GitGud said:

Too much hard work maintaining a custom loop, not mentioning the costs.

and all that for 5 FPS increase. 

[papajo]

1 hour ago, SamStrecker said:

Totally worth it. You don't have to go insane but extra performance is always a plus. Why get 101FPS when you can get 134FPS and it looks much better on a 144hz monitor?

BECAUSE YOU DONT GET 134 if the reference puts out 101 on stock (on top of that dont forget that you can OC the reference too!) !!

See people ?? thats the point of my topic guys like SamStrecker are deceived by the marketing hype and believe that they will get tremendus gains while they WONT get anything such as that. linus has to take the heat and show people like SamStrecker that everything above the reference doesnt make sense for the average consumer and is only really appealing to guys that buy GPUs not for gaming but to participate in benchmark competitions. 

[BuckGup]

10 minutes ago, papajo said:

BECAUSE YOU DONT GET 134 if the reference puts out 101 on stock (on top of that dont forget that you can OC the reference too!) !!

See people ?? thats the point of my topic guys like SamStrecker are deceived by the marketing hype and believe that they will get tremendus gains while they WONT get anything such as that. linus has to take the heat and show people like SamStrecker that everything above the reference doesnt make sense for the average consumer and is only really appealing to guys that buy GPUs not for gaming but to participate in benchmark competitions. 

I am not deceived it is called a fact. I wouldn't spread false information. If I run my card at stock in Overwatch at 1440P Ultra settings I get 100-111FPS. When I overclock my card with the same settings and resolution I get 130-149FPS. My card is a great OCers and has a pretty beefy cooler so most other air coolers won't get the same results. If you look at custom loops then there you go. 

[Ensho]

I'll glady take a 3rd party 1080 with better thermals and noise for $100 less than a reference FE card.  Granted, you do have a decent point about the higher factory clocked models like the Gaming Z vs Gaming X from MSI and the other AIB 'Overclocked' models.  All 1080/1070s regardless of board design crap out around 2.1ghz.

 

The higher the fps, the more responsive the game engine is however...which is good for competitive fps gaming (or try hard casual gamers).

[papajo]

12 minutes ago, SamStrecker said:

I am not deceived it is called a fact. I wouldn't spread false rumours. If I run my card at stock in Overwatch at 1440P Ultra settings I get 100-111FPS. When I overclock my card with the same settings and resolution I get 130-149FPS. My card is a great OCers and has a pretty beefy cooler so most other air coolers won't get the same results. If you look at custom loops then there you go. 

Yea so what? underclocking your card isnt saying anything show me a result with a reference GTX and a OCed one...

Oh wait here is one (and I can give you more) 

 

 

Here we see that the  EVGA Ti SC version gives 3.2 FPS more,  the MSI gaming 7 FPS more the G1 gaming 9.8 and the Asus strix 12 FPS more 

And thats for AVERAGE FPS (Which isnt an accurate measurement of perfomance and favors the OC cards because they can have some higher MAX FPS on low demanding scenaries which increases their average ) 

 

 

and the cards above on release cost up to 300$ on the reference. 

 

And I remind you again that the reference can be OCed too.

It practically makes more sense to buy a second reference and SLi 

[papajo]

5 minutes ago, Ensho said:

I'll glady take a 3rd party 1080 with better thermals and noise for $100 less than a reference FE card.  Granted, you do have a decent point about the higher factory clocked models like the Gaming Z vs Gaming X from MSI and the other AIB 'Overclocked' models.  All 1080/1070s regardless of board design crap out around 2.1ghz.

 

The higher the fps, the more responsive the game engine is however...which is good for competitive fps gaming (or try hard casual gamers).

by reference I mean the "basic" card not the nvidia one necessarily EVGA has for example a reference card with a nice twin cooler on it.

[BuckGup]

4 minutes ago, papajo said:

Yea so what? underclocking your card isnt saying anything show me a result with a reference GTX and a OCed one...

Oh wait here is one (and I can give you more) 

 

 

Here we see that the  EVGA Ti SC version gives 3.2 FPS more,  the MSI gaming 7 FPS more the G1 gaming 9.8 and the Asus strix 12 FPS more 

And thats for AVERAGE FPS (Which isnt an accurate measurement of perfomance ) 

 

 

and the cards above on release cost up to 300$ on the reference. 

 

And I remind you again that the reference can be OCed too.

It practically makes more sense to buy a second reference and SLi 

 I don't get what you are mad about? Where you expecting double the performance when you OC? Do you understand what OCing is and why it won't make magical ponies appear to run faster in your computer. Like I said before my card has the same graphics score in FireStrike Extreme as a reference GTX1080. For the most part other 980tis will not come close But expecting a reference card with stock power delivery, not enough PCI power, and isn't designed for OCing probably won't OC very well. 

[papajo]

here is a reference card 1060 OCed to 2GHz...

Dont pay attention to the shill talk (this guy is a nvidia fan) and just pay attention on the FPS... 

500hz difference on the clock yet the FPS for MOST OF THE GAME stay equal! and in some parts he gains like 10FPS
 

 

 

Oh and the OCed card is the one on right I meantion this because sometimes you see the stock clock on the left having higher framerates (lol) 

Edited December 27, 2016 by papajo

[papajo]

7 minutes ago, SamStrecker said:

 I don't get what you are mad about? Where you expecting double the performance when you OC? Do you understand what OCing is and why it won't make magical ponies appear to run faster in your computer. Like I said before my card has the same graphics score in FireStrike Extreme as a reference GTX1080. For the most part other 980tis will not come close But expecting a reference card with stock power delivery, not enough PCI power, and isn't designed for OCing probably won't OC very well. 

I expect double perfomance or close to it if the price is close to double the reference yes.  

And generally I expect an equal price/perfomance increase if it gives 5% perfomance for 30% added price then its a bust yes. 

[Deli]

IN OP's world, the only GPU ever exist is Nvidia..

[Jumper118]

3 hours ago, papajo said:

 

it can help way more for when gpu's use 250w+ and are water cooled. the reason why it doesnt make a difference for most people is because they dont overclock far enough. Also they can be quieter and last longer. 

 

i mean just look at a ref 290x vs 290x lightning  one runs at stock and throttles with the fan at 6000rpm and the other sits at 50% fan speed with a good 10-20% more clock speed at 70c. 

[smokefest]

3 hours ago, papajo said:

Watching recently an old video from linus tech tips 
 

I felt the need to make a topic about how useless overclocking a graphics card is.....

As you can see in the video (and in any video out there about OCing and playing games) the difference between the reference design and the top of the top classified design in games is like 3 FPS...

even if you overclock the classified design the difference with the stock reference design wont be more than like ~10 FPS... and thats without mentioning that the reference design can be OCed as well and so the already small gap between the reference design and the "SUPER OC CUSTOM PCB" design shrinks even more....

So why to encourage people buy those stupid money wasters? 

getting 70 FPS instead of 66 FPS in a games is like a ZERO practical difference on your everyday gaming....

OC in cards got to become a price changer because of how things used to be  in the past.... I remember when I had my Geforce 4200 ti and OCed  games that I previously struggled to play with (because they run at lets say 20-25 FPS) after the OC run smooth on a solid 40+ FPS!!!!  and yea that was a gain babe!!! and OC became a thing... Games used to be more clock speed bound back then... 

 

 

But today OC is just an illusion.... the reference model has a very good frame rate for all the games of its generation and the super duper custom PCB models from any brand offer only a 1 to 5 FPS difference.. but asking atleast 100$ more than the reference.... 

 

 

Its just a marketing gig nowadays and we shouldn't support it. Also linus should take the heat and make a video declaring that OC is just a nice market for those that just are into benchmark competitions and that for all the gamers out there it doesnt mean anything anymore.

 

9 minutes ago, papajo said:

here is a reference card 1060 OCed to 2GHz...

Dont pay attention to the shill talk (this guy is a nvidia fan) and just pay attention on the FPS... 

500hz difference on the clock yet the FPS for MOST OF THE GAME stay equal! and in some parts he gains like 10FPS
 

 

 

Oh and the OCed card is the one on right I meantion this because sometimes you see the stock clock on the left having higher framerates (lol) 

 

 

What did you guys expect from OC a gpu ?? 25 fps gain ?>?


Actually i find these results very good, 10 fps gain !!! for only oc ? It's not useless, it's in fact, very effective as an OC !!!
10 fps is A LOT !!!