Graining and how to get rid of it.

[Vadise]

Greetings.

 

I have started to practice with my new Sony HDR-CX405 after finishing my recording space setup, and I have been noticing plenty of graining on the recordings, with all my lights on, some lights on and no lights on, I have tweaked the iris, the exposure and the shutter speed but nothing seems to alleviate the graining.

The shots are indoors and focusing on small subjects for now, namely my old PSP and random electronic odds and ends I have laying around, I intend to practice focusing in and out, slide shots and playing with lighting for now.

 

My setup is the HDR-CX405, and the lighting is provided by three 560 Lumen LED bulbs in adjustable spots set 45 degrees on either side of the subject and one head on at 1.2m distance. Plus one light directly above at 2m away intending to illuminate the wall behind the subject.

 

How would you go about this? Do I need more light? or is this just a low quality camera? I am recording at 1080p 60fps on AVCHD, I dont have an SDXC to record at XAVC-S, but I dont think it will make much of a difference.

[mama_fluxus]

6 minutes ago, Vadise said:

Greetings.

 

I have started to practice with my new Sony HDR-CX405 after finishing my recording space setup, and I have been noticing plenty of graining on the recordings, with all my lights on, some lights on and no lights on, I have tweaked the iris, the exposure and the shutter speed but nothing seems to alleviate the graining.

The shots are indoors and focusing on small subjects for now, namely my old PSP and random electronic odds and ends I have laying around, I intend to practice focusing in and out, slide shots and playing with lighting for now.

 

My setup is the HDR-CX405, and the lighting is provided by three 560 Lumen LED bulbs in adjustable spots set 45 degrees on either side of the subject and one head on at 1.2m distance. Plus one light directly above at 2m away intending to illuminate the wall behind the subject.

 

How would you go about this? Do I need more light? or is this just a low quality camera? I am recording at 1080p 60fps on AVCHD, I dont have an SDXC to record at XAVC-S, but I dont think it will make much of a difference.

First off, That camera will show some grain in anything but a sunny day. Go test it outside on a sunny day and that will be your camera's optimal quality to shoot for.

You should to open the iris and make sure the shutter is proper using the 90 degree shutter rule. Then get as much light as you can on the subject until the grain looks similar to outside.

[Vadise]

1 hour ago, mama_fluxus said:

First off, That camera will show some grain in anything but a sunny day. Go test it outside on a sunny day and that will be your camera's optimal quality to shoot for.

You should to open the iris and make sure the shutter is proper using the 90 degree shutter rule. Then get as much light as you can on the subject until the grain looks similar to outside.

Other than Shutter Speed and Iris, are there any other settings that would influence in the ammout of graining of a shot? ISO is unavailable at this low tier of gear, does exposure and white balance play any role?

[.spider.]

I think example footage would help.

[Vadise]

3 minutes ago, .spider. said:

I think example footage would help.

I can upload some footage, as well as some pictures of the room, perhaps I also have made a mistake in where I placed the lights, or even the type of lights, you may also have some suggestions about it as well. I will do that when I come back from work.

[Vadise]

18 hours ago, .spider. said:

I think example footage would help.

Here are a few samples with different settings, the darker one was me playing with the exposure, the lights remain the same.

 

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7618082/Vid/00009.MTS

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7618082/Vid/00008.MTS

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7618082/Vid/00007.MTS

 

And the last one is a quick look at the mess that is the spare room that I am using for this.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7618082/Vid/VID_20161208_100651.mp4

 

[AkiraDaarkst]

50 minutes ago, Vadise said:

Here are a few samples with different settings, the darker one was me playing with the exposure, the lights remain the same.

 

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7618082/Vid/00009.MTS

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7618082/Vid/00008.MTS

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7618082/Vid/00007.MTS

 

And the last one is a quick look at the mess that is the spare room that I am using for this.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7618082/Vid/VID_20161208_100651.mp4

 

It appears to me that you are filming in a very low lit situation.  Are you also using digital zoom on the camera?  The camera has 30x optical zoom and 350x digital zoom.  Maybe see if you can disable digital zoom in the camera so that you don't accidentally use it.

[Vadise]

23 minutes ago, AkiraDaarkst said:

It appears to me that you are filming in a very low lit situation.  Are you also using digital zoom on the camera?  The camera has 30x optical zoom and 350x digital zoom.  Maybe see if you can disable digital zoom in the camera so that you don't accidentally use it.

Digital zoom and image stabilization I have disabled. I will get the camera up close and see if I can mount the lights closer.

[Vadise]

Old tripod laying around served to clamp one light and get it up close. I think I will chew the plastic bulb off the LED light to make it more directional later. Here are two more shots with different exposures. I know, the white objects in the background are overexposed I put those there so the light wont reflect off the mirror right back at the camera. I will remove the mirror once I clear a place out to put it at safely. It seems to me the graining was reduced a notch by getting right at the face of the subject. 

 

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7618082/Vid/00011.MTS

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7618082/Vid/00010.MTS

 

-

How the setup looks like now.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7618082/Vid/IMG_20161208_121839.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7618082/Vid/IMG_20161208_121848.jpg

 

[AkiraDaarkst]

58 minutes ago, Vadise said:

Digital zoom and image stabilization I have disabled. I will get the camera up close and see if I can mount the lights closer.

I wouldn't turn off IS, just disable digital zoom.

[AkiraDaarkst]

31 minutes ago, Vadise said:

Old tripod laying around served to clamp one light and get it up close. I think I will chew the plastic bulb off the LED light to make it more directional later. Here are two more shots with different exposures. I know, the white objects in the background are overexposed I put those there so the light wont reflect off the mirror right back at the camera. I will remove the mirror once I clear a place out to put it at safely. It seems to me the graining was reduced a notch by getting right at the face of the subject. 

 

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7618082/Vid/00011.MTS

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7618082/Vid/00010.MTS

 

-

How the setup looks like now.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7618082/Vid/IMG_20161208_121839.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7618082/Vid/IMG_20161208_121848.jpg

 

The image quality seems to have improved slightly over your previous samples.  There is still some grain.  Try recording in XAVC instead of AVCHD which records in lower bit rate.

[Vadise]

7 minutes ago, AkiraDaarkst said:

The image quality seems to have improved slightly over your previous samples.  There is still some grain.  Try recording in XAVC instead of AVCHD which records in lower bit rate.

I ordered an SDXC UHS-I memory from Lexar to enable XAVC-S (No matter if I have an SDHC UHS-I 32GB, Sony decided to only allow XAVC-S with SDXC), it will arrive soon. In the meantime other than re enabling IS, is there anything you think would be worth trying? Firing more light perhaps?

[AkiraDaarkst]

5 minutes ago, Vadise said:

I ordered an SDXC UHS-I memory from Lexar to enable XAVC-S (No matter if I have an SDHC UHS-I 32GB, Sony decided to only allow XAVC-S with SDXC), it will arrive soon. In the meantime other than re enabling IS, is there anything you think would be worth trying? Firing more light perhaps?

More lights will definitely help.

[Vadise]

Just now, AkiraDaarkst said:

More lights will definitely help.

Alright. I will look for more tripods or whatever suitable support I can find and bring the other two spots forward, will upload a few more samples then. Thanks for the help so far.