Getting a new body, need guidance

[xQubeZx]

As others have said you are not locked into the Canon eco system. The 6D mark ii is rumored to be released sometime in spring. Other entry level Full Frames is a as said the D610 and Sony A7 ii or maybe even a A7r (not the mark ii, but if you want a high res body. You wiil have to trade of some new features as the 5-axis stabliization the A7ii has.)

 

The problem with Sony is probably the more expensive lenses, however high quality ones. But they are also harder to find used.

Advantage of Nikon is mostly it being a newer body with better sensor but I doubt it will differ that much. What might be the largest difference is probably the AF systems. The 6D is probably the "slowest" among the three.

 

Personally I would either go with the 6D or switch to Sony. The 6D makes sense as you already have one lens and are used to that system. The Sony makes sense for it being a newer camera with a better sensor and AF and other tech improvements as WiFi connection and a tiltable screen.

 

I also saw you wrote you may not be able to afford L glass, I would strongly suggest looking in the used marked as I have seen a lot of  L glass for very reasonable prices just slighly above the non-L glass counterparts. (thats here in sweden however)  

[Swndlr]

5 minutes ago, xQubeZx said:

As others have said you are not locked into the Canon eco system. The 6D mark ii is rumored to be released sometime in spring. Other entry level Full Frames is a as said the D610 and Sony A7 ii or maybe even a A7r (not the mark ii, but if you want a high res body. You wiil have to trade of some new features as the 5-axis stabliization the A7ii has.)

 

The problem with Sony is probably the more expensive lenses, however high quality ones. But they are also harder to find used.

Advantage of Nikon is mostly it being a newer body with better sensor but I doubt it will differ that much. What might be the largest difference is probably the AF systems. The 6D is probably the "slowest" among the three.

 

Personally I would either go with the 6D or switch to Sony. The 6D makes sense as you already have one lens and are used to that system. The Sony makes sense for it being a newer camera with a better sensor and AF and other tech improvements as WiFi connection and a tiltable screen.

 

I also saw you wrote you may not be able to afford L glass, I would strongly suggest looking in the used marked as I have seen a lot of  L glass for very reasonable prices just slighly above the non-L glass counterparts. (thats here in sweden however)  

Yeh, the way the plan is looking right now is as follows - 

I list my current body and lens for ~$850

Ship it off when it sells

Get money

Wait until the holidays until I can get some extra money

Buy used 6D body

Save up for new lenses in the future

[Bsmith]

18 hours ago, Swndlr said:

Yes !  I didnt plan on selling it to begin with, just my 11-16 crop lens.

ahh okey, guess I misunderstood it then.

I personally would go for something like an 80D instead of a 5d mk2(or 3) or 6D, it keeps the selection of lenses a bit wider and is more up-to-date when it comes to technical stats, not to forget, a flip screen can always come in handy!

[mama_fluxus]

On 11/12/2016 at 9:51 AM, Swndlr said:

Yes, Id likely be buying off of eBay or Craigslist

Check out the Amazon used section for the 6D. It's almost always cheaper than Ebay in my experience.

[Swndlr]

4 hours ago, mama_fluxus said:

Check out the Amazon used section for the 6D. It's almost always cheaper than Ebay in my experience.

Ill have a look, listed my body and lens today, should sell reasonable quick. The guy at my local camera store is offering me a good deal on a 5D MK2, so Im going in later this week to do some test shooting to see if it holds up and some other specifics.

[Swndlr]

On 11/13/2016 at 4:46 AM, Bsmith said:

ahh okey, guess I misunderstood it then.

I personally would go for something like an 80D instead of a 5d mk2(or 3) or 6D, it keeps the selection of lenses a bit wider and is more up-to-date when it comes to technical stats, not to forget, a flip screen can always come in handy!

Thats not the point man, the tech features arent really all that important. The important part is shifting to full frame.

[frostburg]

1 hour ago, Swndlr said:

Thats not the point man, the tech features arent really all that important. The important part is shifting to full frame.

I think it's important to inform you that a new aps-c camera will outperform a 6D in basically everything. There is no specific magic to full frame, especially given your budget constraints; I mean, if you could afford, say, a Distagon 15/2.8 you would have some argument there, but you're going to use cheap glass for the foreseeable future, right?

Do you have any specific need only addressed by full frame? How is it going to improve your photos? Do you feel that you'll not be taken seriously as a photographer if you shoot aps-c? I tell this to you as a person that owns seven different prime lenses in the 45-55mm range, don't get in the habit of buying gear that doesn't have a purpose.

[Swndlr]

4 minutes ago, frostburg said:

I think it's important to inform you that a new aps-c camera will outperform a 6D in basically everything. There is no specific magic to full frame, especially given your budget constraints; I mean, if you could afford, say, a Distagon 15/2.8 you would have some argument there, but you're going to use cheap glass for the foreseeable future, right?

Do you have any specific need only addressed by full frame? How is it going to improve your photos? Do you feel that you'll not be taken seriously as a photographer if you shoot aps-c? I tell this to you as a person that owns seven different prime lenses in the 45-55mm range, don't get in the habit of buying gear that doesn't have a purpose.

1. No, Ill be getting nice glass as soon as I can, looking into taking some L glass off of my friends hands since hes getting new lenses this holiday season.

2. Im not afraid of criticism for shooting on a crop body, I want to start getting into full frame because I dont want to keep spending money on crop stuff and then in the future have to deal with getting rid of it all to get into full frame photography when I want to. Getting a full frame body now and investing in nice full frame glass is only going to benefit my wallet in the future, thats my concern.

[frostburg]

Just now, Swndlr said:

1. No, Ill be getting nice glass as soon as I can, looking into taking some L glass off of my friends hands since hes getting new lenses.

2. Im not afraid of criticism for shooting on a crop body, I want to start getting into full frame because I dont want to keep spending money on crop stuff and then in the future have to deal with getting rid of it all to get into full frame photography when I want to. Getting a full frame body now and investing in nice full frame glass is only going to benefit my wallet in the future, thats my concern.

Ok, the "I don't want to buy expensive crop lenses" concern is 100% valid.

[Swndlr]

2 minutes ago, frostburg said:

Ok, the "I don't want to buy expensive crop lenses" concern is 100% valid.

I cant tell if sarcasm??

Bottom line is I just want to have a platform to start out with for my future in photography, and getting into full frame earlier than later is just what seems more beneficial to me individually

[frostburg]

7 minutes ago, Swndlr said:

I cant tell if sarcasm??

Bottom line is I just want to have a platform to start out with for my future in photography, and getting into full frame earlier than later is just what seems more beneficial to me individually

Sorry, it's not sarcasm. I generally recommend people with entry-level aps-c cameras to get a decent prime, like the canon 50/1.8 or the nikon 35/1.8 dx, a wide zoom designed for crop sensor and maybe a cheap tele zoom, but nothing more - the exception here is people using expensive crop bodies to add reach to tele lenses for sports or nature photography.

[Swndlr]

6 minutes ago, frostburg said:

Sorry, it's not sarcasm. I generally recommend people with entry-level aps-c cameras to get a decent prime, like the canon 50/1.8 or the nikon 35/1.8 dx, a wide zoom designed for crop sensor and maybe a cheap tele zoom, but nothing more - the exception here is people using expensive crop bodies to add reach to tele lenses for sports or nature photography.

 

6 minutes ago, frostburg said:

Sorry, it's not sarcasm. I generally recommend people with entry-level aps-c cameras to get a decent prime, like the canon 50/1.8 or the nikon 35/1.8 dx, a wide zoom designed for crop sensor and maybe a cheap tele zoom, but nothing more - the exception here is people using expensive crop bodies to add reach to tele lenses for sports or nature photography.

Ive already got a 50 1.8, will hold me off for a bit until my bud sells me off his other lenses.

[Bsmith]

8 hours ago, Swndlr said:

Thats not the point man, the tech features arent really all that important. The important part is shifting to full frame.

Hmm I see and regarding your answers to @frostburg his posts there doesnt seem to be such a huge risk in it for you since you have acces to multiple full frame lenses when needed soon enough(the reason that kept me at ASP-C) in that case a new or used 6D might be a good step into the full frame environment, which doesn't make you spend to much and allows for future improvement. looks like a decent choice, I wish you the most of luck.

[mama_fluxus]

15 hours ago, Swndlr said:

 

Ive already got a 50 1.8, will hold me off for a bit until my bud sells me off his other lenses.

You should buy the lenses before the body.

 

Buy the EF full frame glass and then switch to a 6D mark II when it comes out. Or pick up a really cheap 6D when they announce the 6D mark II.

 

If you are shooting with a 50 1.8 then you have no reason to shoot with full frame as that lens isn't great. Just remember that the glass is what makes pretty pictures not the body its connected to.

[Swndlr]

3 hours ago, mama_fluxus said:

You should buy the lenses before the body.

 

Buy the EF full frame glass and then switch to a 6D mark II when it comes out. Or pick up a really cheap 6D when they announce the 6D mark II.

 

If you are shooting with a 50 1.8 then you have no reason to shoot with full frame as that lens isn't great. Just remember that the glass is what makes pretty pictures not the body its connected to.

I dont have the money to make it work out like that.

[xQubeZx]

5 hours ago, mama_fluxus said:

You should buy the lenses before the body.

 

Buy the EF full frame glass and then switch to a 6D mark II when it comes out. Or pick up a really cheap 6D when they announce the 6D mark II.

 

If you are shooting with a 50 1.8 then you have no reason to shoot with full frame as that lens isn't great. Just remember that the glass is what makes pretty pictures not the body its connected to.

There is added benefits of a FullFrame even if you don't at the time has the most amazing glass. The larger sensor will give a shallower dof and you will get a lot less noise on a fullframe. In these fullframe bodies you will also get other good features that may not exist on the lower end apa-c bodies and the pro aps-c bodies costs about as much as the 6D. I see no problem in him gettting fullframe for the sake of the sensor benefits untill he can afford to invest in L glass. And the 50 is a decent start as those are usally very sharp as they are easy to make and have been around for decades. 

 

Image sharpness is not everything, its how you take the image, however the laws of physic will affect the final outcome. (Larger sensor) 

[mama_fluxus]

1 hour ago, xQubeZx said:

There is added benefits of a FullFrame even if you don't at the time has the most amazing glass. The larger sensor will give a shallower dof and you will get a lot less noise on a fullframe. In these fullframe bodies you will also get other good features that may not exist on the lower end apa-c bodies and the pro aps-c bodies costs about as much as the 6D. I see no problem in him gettting fullframe for the sake of the sensor benefits untill he can afford to invest in L glass. And the 50 is a decent start as those are usally very sharp as they are easy to make and have been around for decades. 

 

Image sharpness is not everything, its how you take the image, however the laws of physic will affect the final outcome. (Larger sensor) 

Yes I know all of this.... But the 6D is an old camera. The sensor technology in the 80D is far superior of the 6D even though it is smaller. Just know that money is far better spent in glass that will last forever than a body that will be replaced in 2 years. 

 

In my opinion you will get better pictures with a 70D+Sigma 50mm 1.4 Art or 70D+18-35mm F1.8 Art than you ever will with a 6D+50mm f1.8 canon. 

 

 

 

[AkiraDaarkst]

11 hours ago, mama_fluxus said:

In my opinion you will get better pictures with a 70D+Sigma 50mm 1.4 Art or 70D+18-35mm F1.8 Art than you ever will with a 6D+50mm f1.8 canon. 

How exactly do you know this?

 

The quality of the photos shot by the OP is independent of the technology of the camera.  If he's a lousy photographer, he will produce lousy work no matter which camera he uses.  And I don't think he is lousy, needs more practice yes, but he's not a bad photographer.

 

While the 6D might be an old camera, if it's the kind of full frame camera he wants and it's within his budget, it is his choice to buy one or not.  The same thing with replacing the camera, he can choose to keep on using it until it fails completely and can no longer be repaired or replace it the next day after he purchase one.  There's no rule saying he has to replace it in two years, I know people who are using D40 and D70 cameras from Nikon and still produce fantastic photos.

[xQubeZx]

11 hours ago, mama_fluxus said:

Yes I know all of this.... But the 6D is an old camera. The sensor technology in the 80D is far superior of the 6D even though it is smaller. Just know that money is far better spent in glass that will last forever than a body that will be replaced in 2 years. 

 

In my opinion you will get better pictures with a 70D+Sigma 50mm 1.4 Art or 70D+18-35mm F1.8 Art than you ever will with a 6D+50mm f1.8 canon. 

 

 

 

You will not achive the Fullframe look by having expensive glass on a APS-C body, thats basic physics. And sure the body is a few years old but nothing says he has to use it for forever. And I know for a fact that the 6D can produce really great images to this day even if it is some year old as I have held it in my hand and used it myself. I think that if OP wants a fullframe body the 6D can be a good start that he can invest in good L glass with and then maybe buy a new body when he feels the need for it. 

[Bsmith]

11 hours ago, mama_fluxus said:

Yes I know all of this.... But the 6D is an old camera. The sensor technology in the 80D is far superior of the 6D even though it is smaller. Just know that money is far better spent in glass that will last forever than a body that will be replaced in 2 years. 

 

In my opinion you will get better pictures with a 70D+Sigma 50mm 1.4 Art or 70D+18-35mm F1.8 Art than you ever will with a 6D+50mm f1.8 canon. 

 

 

 

you start with the 80D and then fallback to the 70D, a year younger then the 6D and replaced already with the 80D. the 6D might be not most up to date technological camera, but it was never meant to be that, it was meant to get people into the full frame section and experience it without paying incredibly high prices for just the body. Like OP also said, he is able to get high quality L glass fairly quickly by buying it from friends, this way he has acces to full frame, full frame glass and still keeps some money on the side to save up for a more updated body if he desires to, tech specs aren't everything you know, real performance also counts and there full frame is always superior compared to aps-c

[AkiraDaarkst]

8 minutes ago, Bsmith said:

full frame is always superior compared to aps-c

Just wanted to play a bit of a devil's advocate.  Full frame is not necessarily always better than APS-C.

 

First, after you've taken a photo, edited it, created a final product and then published it somewhere (online, print, social media, exhibition) the people who view the photo will not likely ever be able to the difference just by looking at the photo unless there's a description attached saying what kind of camera was used.

 

Secondly, there are cases where a cropped sensor camera can be useful.  It's very expensive to make lenses with very long reach or zoom for larger sensor cameras, but with cameras with small sensors it's not that expensive (due to the crop factor of course).  Sure you can use a teleconverter with a long reach lens on full frame to effectively increase it's reach, but teleconverters do not always maintain the image quality of the lens without them.

 

http://petapixel.com/2016/11/14/teleconverter-vs-crop-sensor-teleconverter-bad-decision/

[frostburg]

3 hours ago, Bsmith said:

real performance also counts and there full frame is always superior compared to aps-c

Realize that the end point of this argument is that he should buy a view camera.

[AkiraDaarkst]

3 hours ago, frostburg said:

Realize that the end point of this argument is that he should buy a view camera.

Large Format FTW!!!

 

I want a camera with this kind of sensor size    the low light performance and super micro thin DOF will be absolutely amazing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Picture

[mama_fluxus]

11 minutes ago, AkiraDaarkst said:

Large Format FTW!!!

 

I want a camera with this kind of sensor size    the low light performance and super micro thin DOF will be absolutely amazing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Picture

How have I never seen this before? It's pretty awesome.

Where do you even put a picture that big!

[AkiraDaarkst]

1 hour ago, mama_fluxus said:

How have I never seen this before? It's pretty awesome.

Where do you even put a picture that big!

Probably in a museum, places like the Smithsonian have very large exhibition halls.

 

Look online for something called Camera Obscura.  You can turn a room in your apartment or house into a room sized pinhole camera. Just cover up the windows to completely block out light, put a small hole in the middle, wait and let your eyes adjust to the darkness.  On a nice day outside, you will have an image being projected on the wall opposite to the window through that hole.