What's the best way to get Ethernet a floor above the router, and is it even worth it?

[kirashi]

18 minutes ago, Spork829 said:

Alright, that's what I was thinking. Although no one has answered this yet: If I'm using ethernet, will it reduce the slowdowns others in the house experience on wifi when I use up a lot of bandwidth? 

 

 

 

Can't believe I just had to quote myself, but yes, I did try to answer that already as seen below.

Each point is a question for you regarding your network setup. IE: What router you have and what speeds you're getting from your ISP.

27 minutes ago, kirashi said:

Also, in reply to @Spork829 regarding slowdowns for everyone on the network during Twitch Streaming, that will depend on many factors.

If your router doesn't have enough processing power and/or RAM to maintain a constant video stream with other users online, you may need a better router.

If your ISP speed is too slow in upload or download, or has BufferBloat or latency issues, your connection can appear slow to other users while streaming.

If your QoS configuration in the router is incorrectly setup, it may limit other devices connection speeds as well.

1

 

 

[tlink]

i advice strongly against what this guy suggest, drilling into random places is never a good idea unless you know how every gas, water and electricity line goes trough your house. not even to speak about structural beams or other obstacles that can be impossible to drill trough without specialized tools. its not like hanging a painting.

[dalekphalm]

2 hours ago, tlink said:

if there is already an ethernet cable running somewehere than you can always hijack the unused wires on it. ethernet has 8 wires of 2 pairs. of every pair only one wire is used, the other wires are free for use. you can strip the cable that is already somewhere and attach a cable to the unused wires, then at the router split the end and use the cables previously unused with a new rj-45 to plug into the router. 

http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-make-your-own-Ethernet-"splitter"/

Err you know that Gigabit Ethernet uses all 4-pairs (all 8 wires), right?

 

By "splitting" the cable, you're essentially just turning it into a 10/100 Fast Ethernet cable. You're capping your connection at 100Mbps maximum, which I highly recommend avoiding.

 

Also, while you're correct that 10BaseT and 100BaseT Ethernet only use 4 of the 8 wires, they do need to use pairs. There are simply 2 sets of unused pairs:

Quote

Like 10BASE-T, the active pairs in a standard connection are terminated on pins 1, 2, 3 and 6.

For note: Pairs 1 and 2 are Orange, 3 and 6 are Green.

 

So while this is possible, this should only ever be used in the absolute last resort. Even putting a GigE Switch in line to get more ports is a better choice if you can afford the cost of a switch (Generally $20 USD).

[Spork829]

4 hours ago, kirashi said:

Can't believe I just had to quote myself, but yes, I did try to answer that already as seen below.

Each point is a question for you regarding your network setup. IE: What router you have and what speeds you're getting from your ISP.

 

5 hours ago, kirashi said:

Also, in reply to @Spork829 regarding slowdowns for everyone on the network during Twitch Streaming, that will depend on many factors.

If your router doesn't have enough processing power and/or RAM to maintain a constant video stream with other users online, you may need a better router.

If your ISP speed is too slow in upload or download, or has BufferBloat or latency issues, your connection can appear slow to other users while streaming.

If your QoS configuration in the router is incorrectly setup, it may limit other devices connection speeds as well.

Sorry, totally missed that. My router is a Netgear R6300 V2, and my speeds from Comcast are about 100 Mbps down and 6.5 up.

[skywake]

5 hours ago, Spork829 said:

If I'm using ethernet, will it reduce the slowdowns others in the house experience on wifi when I use up a lot of bandwidth? 

It depends on where the bottleneck is. To put it simply, think of it as if you had different components for the different functions of your network. Because you kinda do even if you have a single device that does all of it. Whatever network you have? This is basically what your setup is. Think of the lines as if they were network cables.

 

 

And if you look at that the question you're asking is pretty easy to answer. If you connect a device via Ethernet you are removing a potential bottleneck. Especially given that WiFi doesn't run as fast as a wired connection, all things being equal. So if the bottleneck is on that side of your network moving over to wired will resolve it. A single wired connection should give you more bandwidth than everyone on WiFi combined.

 

However that is not the only potential bottleneck. As others have said it could be your router, your modem or internet connection itself. If that's the case then moving over to wired won't solve the issue. It won't hurt things at all, it'll still be better. But it won't necessarily resolve the problem.

[Spork829]

15 minutes ago, skywake said:

It depends on where the bottleneck is. To put it simply, think of it as if you had different components for the different functions of your network. Because you kinda do even if you have a single device that does all of it. Whatever network you have? This is basically what your setup is. Think of the lines as if they were network cables.

 

 

And if you look at that the question you're asking is pretty easy to answer. If you connect a device via Ethernet you are removing a potential bottleneck. Especially given that WiFi doesn't run as fast as a wired connection, all things being equal. So if the bottleneck is on that side of your network moving over to wired will resolve it. A single wired connection should give you more bandwidth than everyone on WiFi combined.

 

However that is not the only potential bottleneck. As others have said it could be your router, your modem or internet connection itself. If that's the case then moving over to wired won't solve the issue. It won't hurt things at all, it'll still be better. But it won't necessarily resolve the problem.

Okay. I don't think I should have any other bottlenecks, but I guess the only way to find out for sure is to set up ethernet and try it out.

[tlink]

7 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

Err you know that Gigabit Ethernet uses all 4-pairs (all 8 wires), right?

 

By "splitting" the cable, you're essentially just turning it into a 10/100 Fast Ethernet cable. You're capping your connection at 100Mbps maximum, which I highly recommend avoiding.

 

Also, while you're correct that 10BaseT and 100BaseT Ethernet only use 4 of the 8 wires, they do need to use pairs. There are simply 2 sets of unused pairs:

For note: Pairs 1 and 2 are Orange, 3 and 6 are Green.

 

So while this is possible, this should only ever be used in the absolute last resort. Even putting a GigE Switch in line to get more ports is a better choice if you can afford the cost of a switch (Generally $20 USD).

no didn't know this, thanks for telling though. but 100mbps is quite far above what most users have per line after a multi user setup and i dont think this will change very soon.. and yea a switch is better, always.

[tlink]

5 hours ago, Spork829 said:

 

Sorry, totally missed that. My router is a Netgear R6300 V2, and my speeds from Comcast are about 100 Mbps down and 6.5 up.

those upload speeds are really sub optimal for streaming twitch (as in you streaming your game to twitch so they can broadcast it). for gaming servers it can be fine, depending on the amount of players online. that router advertizes some high wifi download speeds, like super high download speeds. 400+1300 (no idea what the different meaning of those 2 numbers are but both are far above the 100mbit you get at the copper). you should do a speedtest.net and pingtest.net (make sure java is configured since packet loss is very important). do them 3 times, then plug a lan cabel in a pc and the router and do those tests again 3 times. if these results are majorly different than either your wifi is not configured correctly or the router's advertised speeds are wrong. the most important red flag is packet loss, if that is high than it means that something is possibly distorting the wifi signal, if you live close to other wifi signals than those probably interfere on the same frequency (in routers themselves they call it channel). you can try acrylic wifi free to see if your wifi signal clashes with other wifi signals. 

[thething55]

Powerlines are almost as bad as WIFI in most scenarios. Just because the adapter says it is gigabit and that its link speed might be gigabit I doubt that you would actually get gigabit throughput reliably. If drilling into your walls is not an option or unsafe then you could consider routing a cable under your carpet (if you use carpets) and run the cable upstairs. Just make sure that your total length is under 100 meters as this is the maximum rated length for a base-t cable at its rated max speed.

[Spork829]

5 hours ago, thething55 said:

Powerlines are almost as bad as WIFI in most scenarios. Just because the adapter says it is gigabit and that its link speed might be gigabit I doubt that you would actually get gigabit throughput reliably. If drilling into your walls is not an option or unsafe then you could consider routing a cable under your carpet (if you use carpets) and run the cable upstairs. Just make sure that your total length is under 100 meters as this is the maximum rated length for a base-t cable at its rated max speed.

That's the issue, unless I break through walls I'd need about 140 meters of cable. Hopefully I can convince my parents to have someone drill through some walls. And yeah, powerline is worse than wifi in my house because the wiring is absolutely ancient. 

[Spork829]

8 hours ago, tlink said:

those upload speeds are really sub optimal for streaming twitch (as in you streaming your game to twitch so they can broadcast it). for gaming servers it can be fine, depending on the amount of players online. that router advertizes some high wifi download speeds, like super high download speeds. 400+1300 (no idea what the different meaning of those 2 numbers are but both are far above the 100mbit you get at the copper). you should do a speedtest.net and pingtest.net (make sure java is configured since packet loss is very important). do them 3 times, then plug a lan cabel in a pc and the router and do those tests again 3 times. if these results are majorly different than either your wifi is not configured correctly or the router's advertised speeds are wrong. the most important red flag is packet loss, if that is high than it means that something is possibly distorting the wifi signal, if you live close to other wifi signals than those probably interfere on the same frequency (in routers themselves they call it channel). you can try acrylic wifi free to see if your wifi signal clashes with other wifi signals. 

I've been streaming to Twitch at ~2500 kpbs for a while now, it's been fine even on the relatively slow upload speed. I'm pretty sure my router is configured correctly, because speed tests are only a few Mbps faster when I'm plugged straight into the router. 

[tlink]

2 hours ago, Spork829 said:

I've been streaming to Twitch at ~2500 kpbs for a while now, it's been fine even on the relatively slow upload speed. I'm pretty sure my router is configured correctly, because speed tests are only a few Mbps faster when I'm plugged straight into the router. 

from what i gather it sounds like you wouldn't benefit from a cable connection although i could be wrong. the only real way to test this is by trying to stress test it with a lan cable. this router should be more than able to deliver 80mbit to upload and download simultaniously on 4 clients and i doubt you are using more than that. im really not sure what the problem is if it isnt packet loss. this router is way beefier than the one i own and i can handle torrents at 2mb(16mbit) per second with ease over wifi. the only other thing that can slow things down is ping, but again thats just QoS thus a router setting.

http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wireless/wireless-reviews/32511-netgear-r6300-v2-ac1750-smart-wifi-router-reviewed?showall=&start=1

[dalekphalm]

11 hours ago, tlink said:

no didn't know this, thanks for telling though. but 100mbps is quite far above what most users have per line after a multi user setup and i dont think this will change very soon.. and yea a switch is better, always.

From the ISP connection, yes, many users are still far under 100Mbps. But that doesn't mean they should be satisfied with a 100Mbps ethernet cable connection from their PC to router. That severely limits internal LAN transferring, streaming, etc. Putting a switch in place is most definitely a better option, even given the fact that a switch costs money.

 

But I digress. It's true, some people wouldn't notice a difference at all.

[tlink]

24 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

From the ISP connection, yes, many users are still far under 100Mbps. But that doesn't mean they should be satisfied with a 100Mbps ethernet cable connection from their PC to router. That severely limits internal LAN transferring, streaming, etc. Putting a switch in place is most definitely a better option, even given the fact that a switch costs money.

 

But I digress. It's true, some people wouldn't notice a difference at all.

that's an interesting point yes, i completely forgot about internal streaming and file transfers. most people dont use internal filetransfers but internal streaming is becoming more and more popular nowdays.

[ArmswieldTheHero]

On 9/11/2016 at 3:02 PM, gtx1060=value said:

I love how us canadians are so polite in refuting other opinions and then the american guy just starts swearing and calling people dumb. Shows a lot

That's not racist, its culturist? 

Either way that was just rude to all of us Americans who DONT call people dumb and swear.

[Mikensan]

To simplify one issue, if you max out your upload you won't be able to download. So the more you upload, the worse your download speeds will get. Not much of an issue with UDP but definitely an issue with TCP (majority) of your traffic. So if you stream at 2.5 you're eating up a good chunk of your bandwidth.

 

If your whole goal is to load balance then plugging in via copper won't change anything (other than potentially giving you faster speeds). There is software you can download to limit your bandwidth from your PC/Laptop so you never go over a specific threshold. Maybe if you know nobody is home you can turn it off, and then flip it on when people are home. Something like https://seriousbit.com/netbalancer/. Any free traffic shaper should be able to do this for you.

 

Alternatively your Netgear R6300V2 appears to support QoS which will help you a lot if you give it a shot. Normally you can create rules like HTTP/HTTPS traffic has the highest priority (over streaming / gaming) etc... (have read a few people suggest this to you but you haven't made a comment so not sure if you've tried this yet)

[Spork829]

3 hours ago, Mikensan said:

To simplify one issue, if you max out your upload you won't be able to download. So the more you upload, the worse your download speeds will get. Not much of an issue with UDP but definitely an issue with TCP (majority) of your traffic. So if you stream at 2.5 you're eating up a good chunk of your bandwidth.

 

If your whole goal is to load balance then plugging in via copper won't change anything (other than potentially giving you faster speeds). There is software you can download to limit your bandwidth from your PC/Laptop so you never go over a specific threshold. Maybe if you know nobody is home you can turn it off, and then flip it on when people are home. Something like https://seriousbit.com/netbalancer/. Any free traffic shaper should be able to do this for you.

 

Alternatively your Netgear R6300V2 appears to support QoS which will help you a lot if you give it a shot. Normally you can create rules like HTTP/HTTPS traffic has the highest priority (over streaming / gaming) etc... (have read a few people suggest this to you but you haven't made a comment so not sure if you've tried this yet)

Okay. I stream all the time and no one else has issues (the rest of my family are pretty light users), I've only mainly observed them having large slowdowns when I host severs that need a lot of bandwidth, such as Minecraft. I understand that I won't have anything but faster speeds over Ethernet, but if the speeds are faster (i.e. maybe upload increases to like 8 Mbps) then could I use up more of that without having to worry about slowing down everyone else as much? I haven't tried out a traffic shaper or QoS, though, so those are definitely a possibility if you think they may help.

[Mikensan]

16 hours ago, Spork829 said:

Okay. I stream all the time and no one else has issues (the rest of my family are pretty light users), I've only mainly observed them having large slowdowns when I host severs that need a lot of bandwidth, such as Minecraft. I understand that I won't have anything but faster speeds over Ethernet, but if the speeds are faster (i.e. maybe upload increases to like 8 Mbps) then could I use up more of that without having to worry about slowing down everyone else as much? I haven't tried out a traffic shaper or QoS, though, so those are definitely a possibility if you think they may help.

If your internet plan is only 5mbps you won't see 8 unfortunately. Minecraft is actually pretty lightweight up until about 50 users then you start pushing 5mbps. 

 

Not saying streaming alone will kill speeds, but combine it with a couple netflix streams or 1080p youtube videos and you'll be fighting for packets. It just eats up a good chunk of bandwidth is all I'm saying. 

 

Hopefully playing with QoS helps, I believe it'll be the most beneficial. Since when nobody else needs webz you'll have full reign and if somebody else needs/wants some speed you can give up some speed for them. Let us know how it goes or if you need help setting it up.

[Spork829]

2 hours ago, Mikensan said:

If your internet plan is only 5mbps you won't see 8 unfortunately. Minecraft is actually pretty lightweight up until about 50 users then you start pushing 5mbps. 

 

Not saying streaming alone will kill speeds, but combine it with a couple netflix streams or 1080p youtube videos and you'll be fighting for packets. It just eats up a good chunk of bandwidth is all I'm saying. 

 

Hopefully playing with QoS helps, I believe it'll be the most beneficial. Since when nobody else needs webz you'll have full reign and if somebody else needs/wants some speed you can give up some speed for them. Let us know how it goes or if you need help setting it up.

That's odd, because my family is just fine when I livestream to twitch, but hosting an MC server for five people they have severe slowdowns. Maybe something else is going on there. And I think what we're paying for from Comcast might be more like 10 Mbps upload, I have to take a look at that. And yeah, I'll try out QoS as well.

[Mikensan]

1 hour ago, Spork829 said:

That's odd, because my family is just fine when I livestream to twitch, but hosting an MC server for five people they have severe slowdowns. Maybe something else is going on there. And I think what we're paying for from Comcast might be more like 10 Mbps upload, I have to take a look at that. And yeah, I'll try out QoS as well.

You can look at bandwidth metering software too, so when somebody complains you can take a quick look to see if it is MC sucking up bandwidth or something else on your PC.