Best-looking AMD Motherboard?

[i_build_nanosuits]

14 minutes ago, Prysin said:

Fun fact though, apparently it is a bitch to properly multi-thread any game above 3 cores without it having engine based bottlenecks.

That's absolutely true...by nature games tend to have a lot of things that rely on something else for compute (interdependent)...in games, things tend to happen one after the other...and required compute is based on results of previous actions/re-actions withing the game engine...so spreading the load across multiple threads is not a simple task...some game engines are more versatile at doing just that...but most of the time there are one or two main CPU threads for the game engine and those are responsible for the bulk of the cpu computing...so, in those instances you can only be as fast as your fastest processing cores...if those aren't fast enough, then the GPU will have to wait and your framerates will go down significantly.

 

Multi-threading a game is an art.

[MahtXL]

Just now, Prysin said:

didnt see it since you quoted yourself, instead of me.

oh boy, the all nighter is striking already.

[SpaceGhostC2C]

13 hours ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

Go intel.

I'm pretty sure Intel does not offer AM3+ nor FM2+ boards 

 

So much trolling here. Does people get paid for it? The question was really simple, and the information provided pretty scarce in order to debate what is fixed and what is a choice variable here.

 Unfortunately, though, "good looking" is a pretty subjective concept.

 

If you like flashy lights, Asus has the "Aura" gaming line with LEDs of your choice. If you want classic red/black gaming themes, MSI gaming boards, Gigabyte gaming, and ASRock Fatal1ty boards may do it, but on AM3+ the king is the Crosshair Formula V. Then MSI has some black/white themed mobos ("Krait" line) that you may like as well.

 

Personally, I like the classic looks of the 990FX Sabertooth.

[i_build_nanosuits]

7 minutes ago, Prysin said:

well, for BF4, AMD can use Mantle. Which is proven to destroy DX11 perf of any of the CPU makers. Would be interesting to see how the 8350 does if he goes into Mantle. You never got to test that since you dont have a AMD GPU.

actually i did tested mantle on BF4 i had an HD7950 and an FX-8320 when mantle launched...result? garbage...the 3GB of video memory on my HD7950 were not enough to run mantle...and after about 1 minute of playing i would get INSANE stuttering due to running out of video memory for some reason...the game was running A LOT worse with mantle...

 

Anyways, as shown in the 2 videos i posted a little earlier the game under DX11 was running flawlessly...at least for me personaly...it was insanely great.

[MahtXL]

Just now, SpaceGhostC2C said:

I'm pretty sure Intel does not offer AM3+ nor FM2+ boards 

 

So much trolling here. Does people get paid for it? The question was really simple, and the information provided pretty scarce in order to debate what is fixed and what is a choice variable here.

 Unfortunately, though, "good looking" is a pretty subjective concept.

 

If you like flashy lights, Asus has the "Aura" gaming line with LEDs of your choice. If you want classic red/black gaming themes, MSI gaming boards, Gigabyte gaming, and ASRock Fatal1ty boards may do it, but on AM3+ the king is the Crosshair Formula V. Then MSI has some black/white themed mobos ("Krait" line) that you may like as well.

 

Personally, I like the classic looks of the 990FX Sabertooth.

No one is trolling here, we are telling him not to buy an fx cpu if he doesnt already have one. If he does already have one we have provided a ton of good looking high end (lol, ok sorry that "lol" was kind of a troll) am3+ boards.

[patrickjp93]

10 minutes ago, Prysin said:

not the e. Only the following CPUs has Wraith

FM2+ 880k

FM2+ 7890k

AM3+ FX 6350

AM3+ FX 8350

AM3+ FX 8370

 

However the cost of the 8370 and 7890k makes them useless to even consider.

No APU benefit from CPU speed, as the AMD microcode instructs the CPU to throttle to 3GHz during GPU loads higher then X% of the GPU capacity. This means that a 7890k will be no better then a 7870k. The only reason the 7870k and 7890k beats a 7850k is because the iGPU of the 7870k and 7890k is clocked to 866Mhz compared to 720Mhz for the 7850k.

Amazing how Intel did no such thing with Broadwell-S

 

I just hope AMD either completely turns the ship around with Zen or crashes and burns completely. This slugging along is just sad.

[Prysin]

4 minutes ago, i_build_nanosuits said:

That's absolutely true...by nature games tend to have a lot of things that rely on something else for compute (interdependent)...in games, things tend to happen one after the other...and required compute is based on results of previous actions/re-actions withing the game engine...so spreading the load across multiple threads is not a simple task...some game engines are more versatile at doing just that...but most of the time there are one or two main CPU threads for the game engine and those are responsible for the bulk of the cpu computing...so, in those instances you can only be as fast as your fastest processing cores...if those aren't fast enough, then the GPU will have to wait and your framerates will go down significantly.

 

Multi-threading a game is an art.

actually, even dependencies can easily be accounted for. Sure it takes a couple more lines here and there. But is is not inherently difficult if you know how your software works. It is just extra time added to do so and the danger of breaking something. This is why it is not done. Laziness and a extremely conservative attitude.

[MahtXL]

2 minutes ago, patrickjp93 said:

Amazing how Intel did no such thing with Broadwell-S

 

I just hope AMD either completely turns the ship around with Zen or crashes and burns completely. This slugging along is just sad.

Their 40 percent ipc gains wont even beat a 4790k. So yeah i gave up waiting on zen.

[Prysin]

1 minute ago, patrickjp93 said:

Amazing how Intel did no such thing with Broadwell-S

 

I just hope AMD either completely turns the ship around with Zen or crashes and burns completely. This slugging along is just sad.

if AMD introduces unlocked i3 equiv and manages to get enough OEMs to ride the ZEN bandwagon in laptops using AMD APUs, then they win.

If they fail to get APUs into laptops, they die and fast.

 

APUs will make or break this new gen. Polaris and SMT in a single DIE is a powerful combo, but with equally high chance of catastrophy.

[Prysin]

12 minutes ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

I'm pretty sure Intel does not offer AM3+ nor FM2+ boards 

 

So much trolling here. Does people get paid for it? The question was really simple, and the information provided pretty scarce in order to debate what is fixed and what is a choice variable here.

 Unfortunately, though, "good looking" is a pretty subjective concept.

 

If you like flashy lights, Asus has the "Aura" gaming line with LEDs of your choice. If you want classic red/black gaming themes, MSI gaming boards, Gigabyte gaming, and ASRock Fatal1ty boards may do it, but on AM3+ the king is the Crosshair Formula V. Then MSI has some black/white themed mobos ("Krait" line) that you may like as well.

 

Personally, I like the classic looks of the 990FX Sabertooth.

even hinting to suggesting a SLI Krait board should be reason enough to ban you from these forums. That board is a fucking fire hazard.

[i_build_nanosuits]

1 minute ago, Prysin said:

if AMD introduces unlocked i3 equiv and manages to get enough OEMs to ride the ZEN bandwagon in laptops using AMD APUs, then they win.

If they fail to get APUs into laptops, they die and fast.

 

APUs will make or break this new gen. Polaris and SMT in a single DIE is a powerful combo, but with equally high chance of catastrophy.

what if zen is garbage?

they can make APUs and unlock them and what not...but it's been pushed back and all signs point to it as being another failure?

[patrickjp93]

17 minutes ago, i_build_nanosuits said:

That's absolutely true...by nature games tend to have a lot of things that rely on something else for compute (interdependent)...in games, things tend to happen one after the other...and required compute is based on results of previous actions/re-actions withing the game engine...so spreading the load across multiple threads is not a simple task...some game engines are more versatile at doing just that...but most of the time there are one or two main CPU threads for the game engine and those are responsible for the bulk of the cpu computing...so, in those instances you can only be as fast as your fastest processing cores...if those aren't fast enough, then the GPU will have to wait and your framerates will go down significantly.

 

Multi-threading a game is an art.

It really isn't, because games are nothing but pipelines of the same repeated tasks. You put AI decisions on 1-2 threads, movement transforms on 1-2 threads, collision detection on 1-2 threads, event detection on 1 thread, and you basically create a turning cog wheel where tasks get dumped on a lock-free doubly-ended queue in each stage of the pipeline and keep a boolean to tell all the threads if a frame was just completed (for multi-frame-capable rendering).

 

Component-Entity-based engines are wholly capable of doing this and making the best use of caches and data streaming. This was basically an exam question on the HPC final I helped devise this last semester. You maintain a few Deques, and then it's as simple as:

 

Spoiler

#pragma omp parallel sections
{
    #pragma omp section 
    {
        while(game_going) {
            if(AIDEQ.empty()) {}
            else ACTIONDEQ.front_insert(ai_process(AIDEQ.pop_back()));
        }
    }

    #pragma omp section 
    {
        while(game_going) {
            if(ACTIONDEQ.empty()) {}
            else MOVEDEQ.front_insert(action_process(AIDEQ.pop_back()));
        }
    }

    //and so on

}

 

Alternatively, you can have the pipeline be static and massively parallelize each stage, complete it, and move to the next using parallel for loops to process entities.

[patrickjp93]

6 minutes ago, Prysin said:

if AMD introduces unlocked i3 equiv and manages to get enough OEMs to ride the ZEN bandwagon in laptops using AMD APUs, then they win.

If they fail to get APUs into laptops, they die and fast.

 

APUs will make or break this new gen. Polaris and SMT in a single DIE is a powerful combo, but with equally high chance of catastrophy.

The problem is Polaris does not scale nicely with clock speed, and the performance drops off very quickly with falling clock speed. We also don't yet know just how power efficient Zen actually is.

[i_build_nanosuits]

1 minute ago, patrickjp93 said:

snip!

 

well...i guess they are waiting on you to show them how to properly code a game engine then

cryengine and frostbyte are great, both are easy to work i think and both scale well across multiple CPU threads and they are used in many games...unreal engine 4...there are quite a few good game engine these days...but for some reason too many games still not using them.

[MahtXL]

Mhm someone should send a memo off to rockstar games that multi threading is simple. Or maybe they know that and just dont care? Contract with intel to screw over AMD possibly by making GTA V single thread heavy for no good reason? Ahh i could conspiracy all day long. They cant even use the "open world game" excuse. Witcher 3 runs fine on the 8350, maybe they need pc port lessons from cd project? lol

[i_build_nanosuits]

Just now, MahtXL said:

Mhm someone should send a memo off to rockstar games that multi threading is simple. Or maybe they know that and just dont care? Contract with intel to screw over AMD possibly by making GTA V single thread heavy for no good reason? Ahh i could conspiracy all day long. They cant even use the "open world game" excuse. Witcher 3 runs fine on the 8350, maybe they need pc port lessons from cd project? lol

GTA 5 run multiple threads on my core i7 and it run very very well...it's super optimized but my guess is that one or two of the CPU threads are probably too much for the AMD CPU to properly handle...like it's the case for too many games...like i said before

GTA 5 is cpu heavy though..

[patrickjp93]

4 minutes ago, i_build_nanosuits said:

well...i guess they are waiting on you to show them how to properly code a game engine then

cryengine and frostbyte are great, both are easy to work i think and both scale well across multiple CPU threads and they are used in many games...unreal engine 4...there are quite a few good game engine these days...but for some reason too many games still not using them.

Did you read the code snippet?

[MahtXL]

1 minute ago, i_build_nanosuits said:

GTA 5 run multiple threads on my core i7 and it run very very well...it's super optimized but my guess is that one or two of the CPU threads are probably too much for the AMD CPU to properly handle...like it's the case for too many games...like i said before

GTA 5 is cpu heavy though..

Cores 1 through 3 take most of the hit. Rest of the cores barely do anything. Which is really funny considering the consoles have amd 8 cores, but on PC using an FX cpu to play GTA V is a disaster  suspicious. Messed around recently and found out disabling the last 4 cores had zero fps impact, but touch any of the first 4 especially 1 through 3 and ggnr.

[i_build_nanosuits]

7 minutes ago, patrickjp93 said:

Did you read the code snippet?

yeah but dude i'm no game developper LOL

what i am is an experienced gamer, that's been playing video games on PC since my dad baught a pentium 166mmx machine and i bought a 4mb matrox m3d accelerator to put in it...prior to that i was a console gamer...when i was born my dad had an atari 2600...then he bought a sega master system...then i got a snes for christmas...then i started pc gaming and still kept buying consoles (N64, PS2, wii, Ps3, Wii u and handheld consoles as well i had all of them) as to PC i built my first very own i was about 17 years old it had a pentium 4 in it (my dad built a few others prior to that namely a celeron 500mhz with a voodoo 3) and then i built a Q6600 with a 8800GT (AMAZING VALUE AT THE TIME lasted me like 6 or 7 years) then i upgraded to HD5870, then HD7950, then FX-8320, Then GTX 780, then i7-4770K, then 980ti.

so...what i am is an old time gamer that played just about anything with a wide variety of hardware and software...this is all the experience i have...the closest i've come to game dev is i made two maps for america's army with the map mission editor in unreal engine 2 (SF cote center and SF ghost town you can check them out there are still some videos showing them on youtube and stuff...honestly, probably the two best looking map for amaericas army) so yeah, your code snipet frankly no idea about it

[Prysin]

7 minutes ago, patrickjp93 said:

The problem is Polaris does not scale nicely with clock speed, and the performance drops off very quickly with falling clock speed. We also don't yet know just how power efficient Zen actually is.

it should be more efficient then haswell by some margin.

Assume "core" perf per watt is equal to Haswell or broadwell (pick one).

assume node improvements are "normal", aka scales as expected.

Assume they have used some of the dense liberary effects they used to gain large efficiency improvements at lower clocks for Excavator vs Steamroller (recycling that which they know works by now)

 

Then look at Carrizo 8700p vs Bristol 8800p. Bristol comes with a new improved power management algorithm, that adjusts voltages on each start/restart. This means the CPU always runs optimally.

Now i havent looked into the power efficiency disparity between Carrizo and Bristol Ridge, but it is safe to assume that whatever efficiency benefit their new power management algorithms have had on bristol should be directly applicable to ZEN. Obviously you wouldnt bother to develop a whole new power management and optimzation algorith just for a stopgap SKU.

 

Then add some power draw due to intergrated SoC design. And some more depending on how efficient the "new" IMC is.

 

[Prysin]

8 minutes ago, i_build_nanosuits said:

GTA 5 run multiple threads on my core i7 and it run very very well...it's super optimized but my guess is that one or two of the CPU threads are probably too much for the AMD CPU to properly handle...like it's the case for too many games...like i said before

GTA 5 is cpu heavy though..

GTA V is not really well optimized. It is "massively threaded" but not optimized for multiple threads. It is basically just adding the lines of text that @patrickjp93 posted earlier without actually checking if they do what you intended them to do.

 

You can clearly see that GTA V scales poorly with threads when you compare a 4790k to a 5960X. Scaling is nowhere near as good as in true multi-threaded software such as Cinebench or video rendering software.

[MahtXL]

Just now, Prysin said:

GTA V is not really well optimized. It is "massively threaded" but not optimized for multiple threads. It is basically just adding the lines of text that @patrickjp93 posted earlier without actually checking if they do what you intended them to do.

 

You can clearly see that GTA V scales poorly with threads when you compare a 4790k to a 5960X. Scaling is nowhere near as good as in true multi-threaded software such as Cinebench or video rendering software.

yup basically turns my 8350 into a 4300 potato. thanks rockstar.

[Prysin]

15 minutes ago, i_build_nanosuits said:

well...i guess they are waiting on you to show them how to properly code a game engine then

cryengine and frostbyte are great, both are easy to work i think and both scale well across multiple CPU threads and they are used in many games...unreal engine 4...there are quite a few good game engine these days...but for some reason too many games still not using them.

UE engines cost a fucking fortune to license for commercial use. That is why people dont use it much. Frostbite and Cryengine is much cheaper.

 

Same reason why the UE4/Cry Engine is availible to DL on Steam for indies, but none of their games come out. Because the moment they do, the cost of royalties and licensing for said engines are too much. This is why most indies use unity or other low cost engines.

[i_build_nanosuits]

18 minutes ago, Prysin said:

GTA V is not really well optimized. It is "massively threaded" but not optimized for multiple threads. It is basically just adding the lines of text that @patrickjp93 posted earlier without actually checking if they do what you intended them to do.

 

You can clearly see that GTA V scales poorly with threads when you compare a 4790k to a 5960X. Scaling is nowhere near as good as in true multi-threaded software such as Cinebench or video rendering software.

i do not think you should expect games to scale across multiple threads like what you see with predicteable loads such as video rendering or transcoding anytime soon...

and by optimized GTA 5 i mean't that it run well on a wide variety of hardware...on PC so long as you don't go over the top with ''advanced settings'' tab and also grass quality (i use HIGH) and you don't use the reflection MSAA thingy...honestly...even with the GTX 780 at 1440p the game was fully playable on all high settings FXAA at 80FPS+ so it run great...it's a very good PC port IMHO...and the game is epic fun as well...i played through it when it came out on PS3 and the thing was running at like 20FPS 720p or some shit like that...so being able to play that great quality game on my PC at 1440p ultra is a blessing...i would LOVE for rockstar to put out an expension for it like ballad of the gay tony they did that for GTA 4...if they do that, i'm buying it DAY 1

[Morgan MLGman]

49 minutes ago, MahtXL said:

yup basically turns my 8350 into a 4300 potato. thanks rockstar.

BTW I played BF4 on FX-8350 @4,53gHz + a heavily OC'd R9 290X combo, which is more or less identical to your setup (290X is faster clock for clock than the 390, as it's got the same chip as present in the 390X)

 

And the game ran flawlessly. As @i_build_nanosuits mentioned, BF4 is one of those games that work really, really well with the FX line, JayzTwoCents has a video on that, that when he moved from an FX-8350 to an i7-3770K, there was literally 0 difference in BF4. So something in your setup/settings/drivers is wrong, and you should look into that more.