Is Computer Science Hard?

[GoodBytes]

21 minutes ago, Scruffy90 said:

The schools I've been too have changed all the classes they teach over the course of the last few years. And I'm pretty sure that they don't think about learning concurrent languages. That has always been my biggest issue with the schools. For instance in the last year I've learned c++,object oriented Java, SQL, HTML, UNIX shell scripting, and others, and the only ones I see that could be easily used together are HTML, shell, SQL and Java. Im probably going to start a different thread to get everyone's thoughts on the matter. I feel like that's the biggest obstacle even when going to school. I feel unprepared so close to the end of uni.

Once again, university does not prepare you for the work field. The point of University is Research. When you are researcher you do little to no programming.

This is what contributes engineers having a Master degree having a very difficult time for getting a job. In the work place, hiring a junior engineer/developer is a risk. You need to be trained, they expect you to adapt and do whatever it takes for you to do, they hope you didn't lie in your resume or exaggerated, or miss understood a skill, you need to fit in the work environment, and company culture. All these things are evaluated in your job interviews. So, you can answer with perfection any programming questions they throw at you, but if they see your personality won't make you fit with others, they won't consider you. The reverse holds true, as well, of course. So you are a high risk, and over time, as you get experience, that risk diminishes, and therefor your wage increases.

 

Now, if you have a Master degree, and no work experience, then well, you have the following problem added:

 -> You master in a field that doesn't currently match with the job position, which they see that you will probably be not interested in, and not motivated to work in, and therefor not stay long.

 -> You have a master degree, but no experience (or long time since), and that makes you wanting a higher wage, but you are a high risk. So the offered wage might be too low for you, so you might be disinterested, or you'll jump out soon after to another job, with higher wage.

 

Saying that you know C/C++, C#, VB, COBOL, FORTRAN, JavaScript, HTML, CSS, PHP, Perl, punch card binary coding, won't help you much, as while it is nice, unless you have a nice personal project to show and back-up, it doesn't mean much, as they assume you just did the course, and did a silly Hello world program, or some basic calculator, or such. (What is more annoying is that in most companies, they give little value having those personal projects, by the first person looking at your resume: HR, and many companies uses a database to put in your CV in their form on their website, and there is no field for it, but if you are selected, on your second interview, which is usually with an Engineer, NOW you have something to talk about as that person knows).

 

A personal project is sadly not something that is possible at University. It needs to be something that defines you and your interests, and not a project that everyone else has.

So it is a "course" you need to add yourself in your calendar, that is time consuming (because it is), where you do the research work needed, to make your project idea a reality.

[GoodBytes]

If you are honor student this helps getting a first job... depending on where you apply it can be more valuable than personal project, depending on how HR or the company as a whole sees things.

[Scruffy90]

24 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Once again, university does not prepare you for the work field. The point of University is Research. When you are researcher you do little to no programming.

This is what contributes engineers having a Master degree having a very difficult time for getting a job. In the work place, hiring a junior engineer/developer is a risk. You need to be trained, they expect you to adapt and do whatever it takes for you to do, they hope you didn't lie in your resume or exaggerated, or miss understood a skill, you need to fit in the work environment, and company culture. All these things are evaluated in your job interviews. So, you can answer with perfection any programming questions they throw at you, but if they see your personality won't make you fit with others, they won't consider you. The reverse holds true, as well, of course. So you are a high risk, and over time, as you get experience, that risk diminishes, and therefor your wage increases.

 

Now, if you have a Master degree, and no work experience, then well, you have the following problem added:

 -> You master in a field that doesn't currently match with the job position, which they see that you will probably be not interested in, and not motivated to work in, and therefor not stay long.

 -> You have a master degree, but no experience (or long time since), and that makes you wanting a higher wage, but you are a high risk. So the offered wage might be too low for you, so you might be disinterested, or you'll jump out soon after to another job, with higher wage.

 

Saying that you know C/C++, C#, VB, COBOL, FORTRAN, JavaScript, HTML, CSS, PHP, Perl, punch card binary coding, won't help you much, as while it is nice, unless you have a nice personal project to show and back-up, it doesn't mean much, as they assume you just did the course, and did a silly Hello world program, or some basic calculator, or such. (What is more annoying is that in most companies, they give little value having those personal projects, by the first person looking at your resume: HR, and many companies uses a database to put in your CV in their form on their website, and there is no field for it, but if you are selected, on your second interview, which is usually with an Engineer, NOW you have something to talk about as that person knows).

 

A personal project is sadly not something that is possible at University. It needs to be something that defines you and your interests, and not a project that everyone else has.

So it is a "course" you need to add yourself in your calendar, that is time consuming (because it is), where you do the research work needed, to make your project idea a reality.

 

I figured as much.

 

I have been working on some personal projects since my C++ professor told me that working on a personal project would be the way to getting internships and jobs.

 

I'm going to start another thread soon because I'm fairly certain that I'm not the only person who is having these concerns and questions. I appreciate the info since a lot of this isn't talked about in school, or seemingly anywhere else.

[GoodBytes]

For those in mid/late Computer Science degree:

(for the soon to apply or just started, you'll get it soon enougth).

 

[Shahnewaz]

13 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

For those in mid/late Computer Science degree:

(for the soon to apply or just started, you'll get it soon enougth).

 

Pretty much what one of my friends told me. "I just like to code."

Edited April 14, 2016 by Shahnewaz

[Donut417]

22 hours ago, neonfirefox said:

Im applying for a computer science major, and im average in math, how much math is required to become a software engineer or a software developer? Is this major hard to learn?

I currently a full time student myself going for a business degree. I will say this. It comes down to the effort you put in. If you are motivated and put a solid effort in then I would say you will be fine. Many of the basic's may be offered online. I would however leave you will this, start at a Community College first. Why? Because its cheaper. Get all of the courses you need done at a community college and then transfer to a 4 year University. Depending on how motivated you are, some classes might be offered online, however you need to make sure you are giving time to your studies. Im currently unemployed living on my financial aid and what I had saved up from my last job. Why? Because I have 5 classes this time around. So you need to make that decision on if you need to work or not. I would not go full time for any Computer Science degree if you plan on working a full time job. Because College is just like having a job. As @GoodBytes has stated you will possible be on campus for what would be an average work day. So you need to plan your life accordingly. 

[WiiManic]

I'm going to also agree with @GoodBytes, I'm in my third year of a 4 year course (UK Masters in Comp Sci).

 

Its a very strong idea of "Here is the tools to go and do this" and not "Here is how you go and do this". They don't teach you C++ or Python or whatever, they teach you to program. You don't really want to learn a language, you want to learn the skills that you can then apply to anything and everything, so swapping to a new language is just a case of a syntax swap and making sure you have the small nuances of that specific language down vs other languages.

 

I don't know how relevant this is to you, but I'd also look and see if a placement is possible for you. I know this is a UK thing at least.

I'm going to go and work for a year between my third and fourth years, I'll get trained, experience in both more team working and just general 9-5 work life, and its all stuff that uni can't really teach me. All those advantages and a wage for that year is nice too. 

It comes back to what has been said before, even if you have an amazing First Class Degree or masters, so will everyone applying to the job. I can say "Oh I know C++" on my CV, but being able to say "I know C++, here is 2 projects I've done, and a reference from this placement about it" then its obviously a lot more convincing.

 

Finally, again this could be UK specific but really think what you want to do, and the courses available.

I know that there are at least 3 types of course which are Comp Sci related. ( This is based on my knowledge, so I am a few years in now so it could have changed ish)

 

Pure Comp Sci  - Hell of a lot of maths, theory etc, and programming.

 

IT - Could be under another name, I think some places have it as "Applied Comp Sci". Its Comp Sci without a lot of the theory and maths. Whilst I go and have a lecture on Complexity Theory or something, they'll be having ones on more applied things. For example, first year I had a module called "Mathematics for Computing", whereas they had a module on web design and what not. Really depends, you may want or not want this maths bit.

 

Game Related Course - A course specifically for the game side of programming. I don't know much about this but its more applied to gaming obviously, but in some cases you'll be doing less in-depth things than a pure comp sci course. I did a Computer Graphics module and it was pure C++ since  "We'd be the people writing the engines", whereas the friends I have in game courses are more about using the engines up front, and the theory and maths they learn is the stuff that will help that. Ultimately if you want games maybe this is best for some people, but to me its a bit too specific.

 

Its hard, its tiring and stressful but its so much fun. I may feel half dead writing up my third year report, but damn all the research is interesting and I don't regret doing any of it.