Flac music files

[Dackzy]

So guys how much of a difference is there between flac 24-bit/44.1kHz Flac and 16-bit/44.1kHz Flac??

[iShad]

2 minutes ago, Dackzy said:

So guys how much of a difference is there between flac 24-bit/44.1kHz Flac and 16-bit/44.1kHz Flac??

Nothing you'll hear.

[Dackzy]

Just now, iShad said:

Nothing you'll hear.

Will it be stupid to get something that is over 24-bit/44.1kHz?

[Guest Kloaked]

If you can't tell the difference then it doesn't matter to you.

[Dackzy]

Just now, Kloaked said:

If you can't tell the difference then it doesn't matter to you.

I have only tried 24-bit/44.1kHz, but now I can see that alot of the music I like is 16-bit/44.1kHz

[iShad]

Just now, Dackzy said:

Will it be stupid to get something that is over 24-bit/44.1kHz?

There's no harm in it just hard drive space. If I'm archiving, I'll just store the highest quality I can find just because. For on the go, and general use case I doubt I could tell the difference from 256kbps mp3 and above.

 

[Volbet]

I'm still not convinced FLAC is noticably different from 320kps MP3 files, so I will have to say that there is absolutly no is no discernible difference between 24bit and 16bit FLAC files.

[Dackzy]

Just now, iShad said:

There's no harm in it just hard drive space. If I'm archiving, I'll just store the highest quality I can find just because. For on the go, and general use case I doubt I could tell the difference from 256kbps mp3 and above.

 

I can hear very easily the difference between  mp3 320 kbps and 24-bit/44.1kHz so theres that.

I am born with a hearing that is better than a normal human (tested on a hospital), but nothing comes for free in life you I was also born with tinnitus.

[Enderman]

7 minutes ago, Volbet said:

I'm still not convinced FLAC is noticably different from 320kps MP3 files, so I will have to say that there is absolutly no is no discernible difference between 24bit and 16bit FLAC files.

there is, but you need really good audio equipment for it to make any difference

 

 

notice the 16khz shelf

also flac goes up to much higher frequencies

[Dackzy]

4 minutes ago, Enderman said:

there is, but you need really good audio equipment for it to make any difference

 

 

notice the 16khz shelf

also flac goes up to much higher frequencies

Well I can hear up to around the 30kHz so that will not be a problem for me

[Volbet]

2 minutes ago, Enderman said:

there is, but you need really good audio equipment for it to make any difference

 

 

notice the 16khz shelf

also flac goes up to much higher frequencies

I know that there is a measurable difference. But if there is one thing I have learned in life it is that there is a major difference between can be measured and what a person can actually hear. 

There is also a measurable difference between a delta sigma DAC and a multibit DAC, but I have yet to see anyone being able to tell the difference in a blind test.

And the same thing goes for FLAC files. I have never seen anyone being able to consistently tell the difference between a high bitrate MP3 or AAC file and a FLAC file. 

[Dackzy]

1 minute ago, Volbet said:

I know that there is a measurable difference. But if there is one thing I have learned in life it is that there is a major difference between can be measured and what a person can actually hear. 

There is also a measurable difference between a delta sigma DAC and a multibit DAC, but I have yet to see anyone being able to tell the difference in a blind test.

And the same thing goes for FLAC files. I have never seen anyone being able to consistently tell the difference between a high bitrate MP3 or AAC file and a FLAC file. 

I should be fine going with 16 flac

[Enderman]

2 minutes ago, Volbet said:

I know that there is a measurable difference. But if there is one thing I have learned in life it is that there is a major difference between can be measured and what a person can actually hear. 

There is also a measurable difference between a delta sigma DAC and a multibit DAC, but I have yet to see anyone being able to tell the difference in a blind test.

And the same thing goes for FLAC files. I have never seen anyone being able to consistently tell the difference between a high bitrate MP3 or AAC file and a FLAC file. 

my point was that there is a difference, but you cant tell if your audio equipment is capable of reproducing it

and 99.999% of people dont have audio equipment which can show you the difference

[Volbet]

6 minutes ago, Enderman said:

my point was that there is a difference, but you cant tell if your audio equipment is capable of reproducing it

and 99.999% of people dont have audio equipment which can show you the difference

With what equipment will you be able to test the difference then? 

I have seen people conduct blind tests on studio equipment and they couldn't tell the difference. 

 

Any modern soundcard will be able to fully convert a 16bit signal into a waveform, so that shouldn't be the issue. 

 

When it comes to a certain point, the equipment stops being relevant. The human ear and/or brain will be the limiting factor. 

[Enderman]

6 minutes ago, Volbet said:

With what equipment will you be able to test the difference then? 

I have seen people conduct blind tests on studio equipment and they couldn't tell the difference. 

 

Any modern soundcard will be able to fully convert a 16bit signal into a waveform, so that shouldn't be the issue. 

 

When it comes to a certain point, the equipment stops being relevant. The human ear and/or brain will be the limiting factor. 

you need an audio interface which outputs frequencies above 20khz (which most good quality ones do)

you need speakers which have a frequency response above 20khz (typically studio monitors with a ribbon tweeter)

you need a flac or wave file which has not been compressed

and you need slightly better than average hearing  hearing stuff above 16khz is not superhuman or anything, hearing above 20khz is a bit more difficult
above 24khz im pretty sure there is 0 noticeable difference

 

my 1536kbps WAV source file doesnt have anything above 24khz

[Dackzy]

13 minutes ago, Enderman said:

you need an audio interface which outputs frequencies above 20khz (which most good quality ones do)

you need speakers which have a frequency response above 20khz (typically studio monitors with a ribbon tweeter)

you need a flac or wave file which has not been compressed

and you need slightly better than average hearing  hearing stuff above 16khz is not superhuman or anything, hearing above 20khz is a bit more difficult
above 24khz im pretty sure there is 0 noticeable difference

 

my 1536kbps WAV source file doesnt have anything above 24khz

what is M4A?

[Volbet]

31 minutes ago, Enderman said:

you need an audio interface which outputs frequencies above 20khz (which most good quality ones do)

you need speakers which have a frequency response above 20khz (typically studio monitors with a ribbon tweeter)

you need a flac or wave file which has not been compressed

and you need slightly better than average hearing  hearing stuff above 16khz is not superhuman or anything, hearing above 20khz is a bit more difficult
above 24khz im pretty sure there is 0 noticeable difference

 

my 1536kbps WAV source file doesnt have anything above 24khz

Well, that is pretty much the equiptment that I have tested it with. 

In one test I have done with some of my former bandmates and other random musicans were done in a professional sound studio. The test was done on both studio monitors and with headphones, yet no one were able to tell the difference. 

Basically, I have heard this argument before and I see no end to it. Every time I have conducted a blind test on better equipment, people moved the goalpost and just said "You need better equiptment than that".

 

Also, WAV and FLAC files are meant to be compressed. Having 1411kps (the bitrate of a CD) files is pretty dumb, since that bitrate is not necessary at all points in a song.  

Compressed ≠ more lossy. 

 

17 minutes ago, Dackzy said:

what is M4A?

M4A files is just AAC files. 

[Pomfinator]

16-bit and 24-bit are basically how many bits are allocated to each frequency in order to describe volume.  Obviously with more bits, the more fine you can describe the volume and the higher the total dynamic range.  16-bit audio's dynamic range is 96dB but can be perceived as about 120dB, and there are over 60,000 different levels of audio that can be represented.  24-bit's dyanmic range is about 144dB, and it can represent over 16million levels of volume.

 

However, while intuitively you'd think 24-bit would be more accurate, all bit-depth does is it decreases the total amount of quantization noise that audio files all have.  A 2-bit song would still be the same song as a 16-bit equivalent, you probably just won't hear anything due to the enormous amount of white noise in the playback.

 

So TL;DR, 24-bit audio has more dynamic range and more levels of audio it can represent, all it does is decrease the noise floor, and it's only real use is for professional artists to have more leeway in raising gain without adding more noise to the signal. AKA useless for listeners.

[EndlessOyster]

5 hours ago, Dackzy said:

I can hear very easily the difference between  mp3 320 kbps and 24-bit/44.1kHz so theres that.

I am born with a hearing that is better than a normal human (tested on a hospital), but nothing comes for free in life you I was also born with tinnitus.

then how do you have better hearing then if you have tinitus surely that blocks out or ruins the frequencies where you have the ringing.

[SilicateWielder]

5 hours ago, Dackzy said:

So guys how much of a difference is there between flac 24-bit/44.1kHz Flac and 16-bit/44.1kHz Flac??

There is no audible difference, unless you're superhuman or have a genetic defect that makes you hypersensitive to such frequency differences.

[Pomfinator]

5 hours ago, Dackzy said:

what is M4A?

MPEG-4 Audio. Used mainly to hold AAC or ALAC

[Guest Kloaked]

8 hours ago, Dackzy said:

I can hear very easily the difference between  mp3 320 kbps and 24-bit/44.1kHz so theres that.

I am born with a hearing that is better than a normal human (tested on a hospital), but nothing comes for free in life you I was also born with tinnitus.

What do you mean "better than a normal human"? What exactly did they say?

 

I went to an audiologist last year to see if something could be done about my tinnitus, and I can distinctly hear frequencies differently in one ear than the other. They put a bone conduction headphone on me and tested my hearing. I passed with flying colors -- they said that I have absolutely nothing wrong with my hearing (on paper according to their test anyways), and I actually hear/better more than most people they bring in.

 

Yet I can't tell the difference between FLAC and good MP3s. Granted I don't have a shit ton of money spent in my audio equipment since everything satisfies me within the $100 range, but still.

[Guest]

These kind of threads are depressing.

 

If you can hear a difference, why the need to ask the internet what kind of files you download for music? Try it and find out. Just make sure you also objectively verify the content of the files you get; all too often, hi-res music is just standard red book encoded in a high bitrate file, without any actual improvement of quality.

[BoredErica]

Don't be the guy claiming to hear a difference between 16 and 24bit files with a dac that can't perform at 24 bits, using an open headphone sitting in a room with a 30dB background noise. Even if you were to blast the track to try to poo-poo 96dB of dynamic range, your ears would be blown out and definitely not in any shape to hear small details... or more importantly, save your sanity and enjoy your music.

 

You say you are golden-eared, guess what, there's a whole line of people before and behind you that claim the same thing. People tend to think they are above average and uniquely immune to cognitive biases. Learn how to do a controlled, blind test (HA is a good place), and do it if you wish, but not before you understand what you're doing first.

 

https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,93753.25.html

http://www.head-fi.org/t/415361/24bit-vs-16bit-the-myth-exploded

https://xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

 

MP3 vs lossless, IIRC there was one guy on HA that was able to detect a difference (and even for that guy I think it was only for some tracks, not every single track). There are so many better things to be doing with your time, like learning how to EQ, a custom EQ for every track, treating your room depending on what you're using, sound proofing it, or getting better headphones. If you're asking about 24 bit, you should already be yelling all day long about poor mastering first.

[SuicideAnomaly]

Man, this is a troll thread if I've ever seen one.

 

You claim to have "superhuman" hearing, but have yet to grasp the fundamentals of audio.

 

"Wait you bought a pair of HD 800 and you won't spend the same amount on a dac and amp I mean wtf. I am not that much into the top end things when it comes to sound but I would even use the same amount of money on a dac and amp and probaly more."

 

Others may fall for your BS, but I will not.