UnRaid Rackmount - Need Mobo/CPU advice.

[TomK]

So,

 

I'm building a new UnRaid setup, and I have a good plan on most of the hardware (or already own it). I'm moving up from an i5 2500k to something more substantial. 

 

So my plan was a 2670v3 that I found for about £250 on ebay... But when I went to purchase the motherboard and CPU I realised - the CPU is an engineering sample! So back to the drawing board. 

 

This is my config:

 

 

 

My rack is a short rack, accepting ATX boards at max (a more limiting factor than I anticipated).

 

More cores, more performance is best, for a budget of £400.

 

My current plan is:

 

For the motherboard I'm looking at this: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FREE-SHIP-Supermicro-X9DRL-IF-B-Dual-LGA2011-Intel-C602-DDR3-SATA3-V-2GbE-/221970129943?hash=item33ae736417:g:engAAOSwSHZWcNnl

And then CPU (2x): http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Intel-Xeon-E5-2670-2-60GHz-8-Core-20MB-L3-LGA2011-Server-CPU-SR0KX-/151895868135?hash=item235db302e7:g:iugAAOSwuTxWAxo~

 

After this I'm all out of ideas, with this config I lose out on about 4000 passmark score, and lose 2 physical (4 virtual) cores. However, the processor still stands up pretty well. Its 32nm, so a bit of extra heat, but its the best config I can come up with for around £500. I looked at things like the Opteron 6380, but tis expensive. I also looked at E5-2600 V2 series on ebay and they're either a) engineering samples, or B) $$$$.

 

If anyone can think of a better config for around £500/$700 with shipping to the UK I'm all ears!

 

 

EDIT: I've updated this post with the most viable option: Dual 2760's.

[NinjaJc01]

So, what is wrong with engineering samples?

EDIT: BTW, thanks for following your topic, so many people don't.

[EposVox]

Side note, this is a really cool project.

[alpenwasser]

So, what is wrong with engineering samples?

EDIT: BTW, thanks for following your topic, so many people don't.

They can be finicky when it comes to working with retail motherboards. I've come across a few stories w/ Supermicro boards who had issues with ES CPUs. If they work, great, but it's not guaranteed until you've tried it out.

As for the hardware, I bought a server-pull used Supermicro board for my server on eBay, been very happy with it. If I'm not mistaken, the model you've linked has IPMI, which I've found to be superbly useful.

[TomK]

So, what is wrong with engineering samples?

EDIT: BTW, thanks for following your topic, so many people don't.

 

Well, firstly I've heard bad things about them. Their quality can fluctuate widely. There is also the ethical (and legal) implications of purchasing ES chips. The E5 2670 V2's I can find is coded "QDNR" but I can't find much information on the stepping for that code (and thus how far from retail the chips are). And, as alpenwasser says, I'm afraid they won't be compatible with the P9Z79 pro.

[alpenwasser]

Well, firstly I've heard bad things about them. Their quality can fluctuate widely. There is also the ethical (and legal) implications of purchasing ES chips. The E5 2670 V2's I can find is coded "QDNR" but I can't find much information on the stepping for that code (and thus how far from retail the chips are). And, as alpenwasser says, I'm afraid they won't be compatible with the P9Z79 pro.

P9Z79 Pro?

Have you changed boards from the one you linked?

On another note though: If I'm understanding your plans correctly, you're planning on running a few VMs on the media server. Now, I've never run unRAID, so I'm not sure how much RAM it reasonably needs by itself nor with VMs. But I just thought I'd mention that my gut instinct is notifying me that 16 GB RAM seem a bit tight for that, maybe, perhaps, possibly. Maybe you've planned this all out in detail and know the precise needs of the things you're going to run, in which case nevermind my gut, but I just thought I'd mention it since I noticed on my server (24 GB) that running a few VMs can start eating up RAM rather quickly, and then suddenly the underlying system starts complaining (well, performance on my ZFS pool started to degrade under really heavy loads, but of course ZFS is notorious for eating up lots of RAM, so you might be completely fine).

[TomK]

P9Z79 Pro?

Have you changed boards from the one you linked?

On another note though: If I'm understanding your plans correctly, you're planning on running a few VMs on the media server. Now, I've never run unRAID, so I'm not sure how much RAM it reasonably needs by itself nor with VMs. But I just thought I'd mention that my gut instinct is notifying me that 16 GB RAM seem a bit tight for that, maybe, perhaps, possibly. Maybe you've planned this all out in detail and know the precise needs of the things you're going to run, in which case nevermind my gut, but I just thought I'd mention it since I noticed on my server (24 GB) that running a few VMs can start eating up RAM rather quickly, and then suddenly the underlying system starts complaining (well, performance on my ZFS pool started to degrade under really heavy loads, but of course ZFS is notorious for eating up lots of RAM, so you might be completely fine).

Haha, the board and CPU i linked are the alternatives to the config in the OP - because I wasn't sure how safe the OP config is 

 

Yes, that RAM may end up being a bit tight, but UnRaid is actually pretty lean on RAM usage (compared to ZFS which is ~1GB/TB of storage), and I can drop more RAM in as necessary. 

[alpenwasser]

Different question: Would a 2CPU-board like this still fit?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SuperMicro-X9DRL-IF-/181805231808?hash=item2a546faec0:g:vCwAAOSwT6pVp-CY (not sure if that's the cheapest on market, just picked that one as an example)

Because then you could first buy a single CPU, expand later when you have more money. Of course, you would need to find a second CPU with the same stepping if I'm not mistaken, but just a thought. Or pair that with two hexacores, which would give you two more cores. Would require more RAM sticks and two heatsinks though, which would increase costs. On the other hand, could maybe go for dual hexacores. But then you'll probably get significantly more power consumption for comparatively little more CPU horsepower. Hard to say, just throwing a few ideas out there.

EDIT: Ah, welp, my eye went straight over that part in the OP

EDIT 2: Side note: You can get away with less than 1 GB/1 TB of storage in ZFS, but at some point it will start to croak a bit under heavy load. As best as I have been able to find out, that number is from its early days when its memory management was still much more crude than it is today. But hard to say with certainty, haven't really found any real "word of god" on this one. But I'm certainly below that threshold and happily saturating gigabit ethernet.

Edited January 5, 2016 by alpenwasser

[TomK]

As an alternative to my alternative...

 

I could plug for a E5 V3 (2011-3). It would add cost in RAM (I'd need DDR4) but it would provide significantly more power.

 

There's an M0 stepping 2670V3 here http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Intel-Xeon-E5-2670-V3-ES-2-2Ghz-30MB-12-Core-24-threads-LGA2011-3-105W-22nm-M0-/351620866591?hash=item51de3ca21f:g:E78AAOxyCepScNeQ

[TomK]

In regards to whether that board would fit, I'm asking the case manufacturer exactly what WILL fit (I was looking at CEB boards earlier today).

 

The case is this: https://www.servercase.co.uk/shop/server-cases/rackmount/4u-chassis/4u-short-chassis-10x-35-hdd-+-3-x-525-bays-sc-43480b/ and lists "Supports motherboard sizes - ATX (12"x9.6") and Micro ATX (9.6" x 9.6"), ITX (6.7" x 6.7")." but that 0.4" may be fine for a 12"x10" board

 

The only issue with dual socket boards is the fact you cripple yourself somewhat with a single socket filled (PCI lanes for example)

[alpenwasser]

On the upside, that would be 12 cores. On the downside, again an engineering sample I think ("ES" in the description).

The only issue with dual socket boards is the fact you cripple yourself somewhat with a single socket filled (PCI lanes for example)

Good point, overlooked that one, sorry.

Edited January 5, 2016 by alpenwasser

[TomK]

On the upside, that would be 12 cores. On the downside, again an engineering sample I think ("ES" in the description).

Good point, overlooked that one, sorry.

Indeed, an engineering sample. The listing says it is "M0" stepping, which is one step before release (QFS0 -> SR1XS).

 

I could pair it with this: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FREE-SHIP-Supermicro-X9SRL-F-O-LGA2011-Intel-C602-DDR3-SATA3-V-2GbE-ATX-/191731287879?hash=item2ca4134747:g:QSIAAOSw~bFWOXre

 

 

EDIT: I don't trust that CPU listing, it lists a 16 core E5-2675 V3 - which from what I can gather doesn't exist...

 

EDIT 2: I'm confusing listings....

[alpenwasser]

Indeed, an engineering sample. The listing says it is "M0" stepping, which is one step before release (QFS0 -> SR1XS).

 

I could pair it with this: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FREE-SHIP-Supermicro-X9SRL-F-O-LGA2011-Intel-C602-DDR3-SATA3-V-2GbE-ATX-/191731287879?hash=item2ca4134747:g:QSIAAOSw~bFWOXre

 

 

EDIT: I don't trust that CPU listing, it lists a 16 core E5-2675 V3 - which from what I can gather doesn't exist...

Isn't the X9SRL-F-O motherboard from that eBay link LGA2011, not LGA2011 R3? 8-core maximum according to the specs?

Also, where did you see the 2675-V3? The one you linked is a 2670-V3, or not?

[TomK]

Isn't the X9SRL-F-O motherboard from that eBay link LGA2011, not LGA2011 R3? 8-core maximum according to the specs?

Also, where did you see the 2675-V3? The one you linked is a 2670-V3, or not?

 

True, I messed up

 

So, that mobo IS indeed only 2011, but there are 2011-3 variants. The CPU I listed looks "ok". I've seen a fair few spurious listings out there (models that don't exist). My issue with that processor is although it says "M0" the S-Spec code it lists "QFSA" doesn't exist

 

An alternative is a retail CPU: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Intel-E5-2620V3-Processor-LGA2011-v3-Socket/dp/B00NF8QNLE/ref=sr_1_38?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1452038041&sr=1-38&keywords=xeon+e5

[alpenwasser]

Well, if you do want to be sure of things, retail is usually the way to go. But of course, tends to be more expensive. Can't really make that decision for you.

Different thought: Under how much time pressure are you for finishing this project? Because what I ended up doing for my machine is just wait and save up until I had the money I needed for the things I wanted. Might be a bit extreme to prolong as long as I did (ended up taking me about four years in total ), but just a thought.

[TomK]

Well, if you do want to be sure of things, retail is usually the way to go. But of course, tends to be more expensive. Can't really make that decision for you.

Different thought: Under how much time pressure are you for finishing this project? Because what I ended up doing for my machine is just wait and save up until I had the money I needed for the things I wanted. Might be a bit extreme to prolong as long as I did (ended up taking me about four years in total ), but just a thought.

well, on the second point: I could save up for a retail E5-2670-V3 But the retail price is 6x the ES price  

[TomK]

Overnight I asked for more information from two separate sellers on eBay advertising M0 stepping chips (including a 2675V3 - a chip that doesn't even exist).

Interestingly - I received the same copy paste reply, from "Sohpia" on both listings! Very fishy! Unless Sophia works for both companies...


However, as an alternative option: dual v1 2670's are pretty cheap on eBay ~£120 each. The pass mark score for those is 18,000 (dual) and I'd get 2x8(16) cores. They're dual 2011 too. I'll update the OP with this, as it seems the most viable option!

[maxtch]

If you don't mind used stuff you can get second-hand server gear. I have a mini VM host with an Asus P5BV-C bought used, old Core 2 Quad Q9300 and 4x 2GB DDR2-800 RAM modules from my old workstation, a brand new LSI 3ware 9750-8i RAID controller, two brand new WD Red 3TB and an used HGST 3TB NAS drive extracted from my Time Capsule. And that rig is giving me zero problem whatsoever.

[alpenwasser]

Overnight I asked for more information from two separate sellers on eBay advertising M0 stepping chips (including a 2675V3 - a chip that doesn't even exist).

Interestingly - I received the same copy paste reply, from "Sohpia" on both listings! Very fishy! Unless Sophia works for both companies...

He, interesting. Could be that behind it all the mother company is the same, weirder things have happened.

However, as an alternative option: dual v1 2670's are pretty cheap on eBay ~£120 each. The pass mark score for those is 18,000 (dual) and I'd get 2x8(16) cores. They're dual 2011 too. I'll update the OP with this, as it seems the most viable option!

 

Sounds like a plan.

 

If you don't mind used stuff you can get second-hand server gear. I have a mini VM host with an Asus P5BV-C bought used, old Core 2 Quad Q9300 and 4x 2GB DDR2-800 RAM modules from my old workstation, a brand new LSI 3ware 9750-8i RAID controller, two brand new WD Red 3TB and an used HGST 3TB NAS drive extracted from my Time Capsule. And that rig is giving me zero problem whatsoever.

Yup, I bought a used Supermicro board, two Xeons and some ECC RAM on eBay from server pulls, plus three LSI9211-8i (new in box, for a third of its retail price here). Very happy with the results, been working very well.

[TomK]

Well, my entire plan was hinged on those dual socket Supermicro boards, which are 12" by 10"... Turns out that the case will ONLY take 9.6" wide boards......

 

So, I'm going to have to find a new case, which takes a decent number of drives and is 450mm deep...

[TomK]

So... Apparently it WILL fit