Stereotypical people

[JT8101997]

What are some of the dumbest things you've heard people say? Just in general as you go throughout you're day and think "How do you even function?" Like people actually believing that 2015 is the first year in 666 years that Halloween falls on Friday the 13th? There are just so many things wrong with that...

[Sauron]

People giving any sort of significance to friday the 13th and 666 of anything

[LtStaffel]

"Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing." -Stephen Hawking

That's circular reasoning by the way.

[ZetZet]

"Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing." -Stephen Hawking

That's circular reasoning by the way.

No, that statement is shaped by the data we have acquired. In the universe we live in we can tell that everything there is could have came from nothing, we don't have a view from outside of our universe. It could not have, but it's entirely possible that it did too. You should read a great book explaining it.

[Enderman]

well i remember not that many years ago there was halloween on friday the 13th...

nothing happened

[Guest trucker2]

It's good for the planet

Weather is not climate

The earth has a fever.

Silicon Valley will be a wasteland in 50 years...that ones from Mitsu Kaiku

 

The entire troubleshooting thread:)

[LtStaffel]

No, that statement is shaped by the data we have acquired. In the universe we live in we can tell that everything there is could have came from nothing, we don't have a view from outside of our universe. It could not have, but it's entirely possible that it did too. You should read a great book explaining it.

Let's go with the universe coming from nothing, besides that time when has nothing ever returned something in all the billions of years since then?

Also, that quote was basically saying "Since there is gravity, we need a universe, so the universe created itself to accompany the gravity that was somehow already there."

[Trik'Stari]

"Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing." -Stephen Hawking

That's circular reasoning by the way.

It's actually a possibility if you actually think about it. At least, if the scientists are wrong about the universes expansion accelerating.

 

Let's go with the universe coming from nothing, besides that time when has nothing ever returned something in all the billions of years since then?

 

As opposed to being created by a magic beardy man who lives in the sky.

[Volbet]

"Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing." -Stephen Hawking

That's circular reasoning by the way.

While I don't agree with Stepehen Hawking on that point, I fail to see how it's circular reasoning.

Within the realm of physics ´nothing´ doesn't mean that there wasn't anything at all. 

´Nothing´ is usually used in the context of explaing what a universe is when there is nothing but energy is present.

Thereby there can be laws governing the ´nothingness´ and those laws could easily prescibe that the energy must form matter.

If you had bothered to read The Grand Design you would know this. 

 

Well, I have heard a lot of dumb stuff throughout my life.

The best one being that Sharpie is permanent on the skin.

Don't bother going to a tattoo parlour just paint your skin with Sharpies.

[ZetZet]

Let's go with the universe coming from nothing, besides that time when has nothing ever returned something in all the billions of years since then?

It does do that every second. You should look at research of vacuum more closely. Particles pop in and out of existence all the time. Something happened that made matter stay here, but we can't yet explain what. What we can say is that we see a possibility of it coming from nothing.

[LtStaffel]

It's actually a possibility if you actually think about it. At least, if the scientists are wrong about the universes expansion accelerating.

 

 

As opposed to being created by a magic beardy man who lives in the sky.

I'm thinking about it, and I'm not seeing how it's possible.  I'm not trying to start an argument, I'm just pointing out the circular reasoning in that one quote.

[Sauron]

well i remember not that many years ago there was halloween on friday the 13th...

nothing happened

 

halloween is by definition on the 31st of october... it can't happen on friday the 13th...

[ZetZet]

I'm thinking about it, and I'm not seeing how it's possible.  I'm not trying to start an argument, I'm just pointing out the circular reasoning in that one quote.

It really doesn't matter what you can't tell is possible or not. A couple hundred years ago no one could think we would be flying. A couple of decades ago no one would think we would all have mobile communication devices that can transmit more data than supercomputers could handle back then.

 

 

Read up on the subject and it's not circular reasoning.

[LtStaffel]

While I don't agree with Stepehen Hawking on that point, I fail to see how it's circular reasoning.

Within the realm of physics ´nothing´ doesn't mean that there wasn't anything at all. 

´Nothing´ is usually used in the context of explaing what a universe is when there is nothing but energy is present.

Thereby there can be laws governing the ´nothingness´ and those laws could easily prescibe that the energy must form matter.

If you had bothered to read The Grand Design you would know this. 

 

Well, I have heard a lot of dumb stuff throughout my life.

The best one being that Sharpie is permanent on the skin.

Don't bother going to a tattoo parlour just paint your skin with Sharpies.

 

He basically said something along the lines of "Because the universe needed to exist, it created itself into existence."  He's basically restating what his point was as a cause or conclusion instead of actually proving it.

It does do that every second. You should look at research of vacuum more closely. Particles pop in and out of existence all the time. Something happened that made matter stay here, but we can't yet explain what. What we can say is that we see a possibility of it coming from nothing.

Hm, I've never heard of the particles part.  Sounds interesting, I'll have to look into that when I can.  From the laymans point of view it sounds a little bit impossible, how do you observe nonexistence and coming into existence?

[LtStaffel]

It really doesn't matter what you can't tell is possible or not. A couple hundred years ago no one could think we would be flying. A couple of decades ago no one would think we would all have mobile communication devices that can transmit more data than supercomputers could handle back then.

 

 

Read up on the subject and it's not circular reasoning.

This is getting off topic, can we take this to the PMs?

[Trik'Stari]

I'm thinking about it, and I'm not seeing how it's possible.  I'm not trying to start an argument, I'm just pointing out the circular reasoning in that one quote.

Eventually the universe will experience a "heat death", wherein all energy has been expended. All the stars have burnt out, and the only thing left will likely be blackholes, gas, and maybe some planets that no longer have stars. Thanks to the law of gravity, it's theoretically possible for it all to collapse back in on itself, creating another big bang. Technically, creating a circular pattern.

[watts300]

I'm thinking about it, and I'm not seeing how it's possible.  I'm not trying to start an argument, I'm just pointing out the circular reasoning in that one quote.

I would say that just because you don't understand a concept, doesn't mean that its explanation is circular. 

[ZetZet]

Hm, I've never heard of the particles part.  Sounds interesting, I'll have to look into that when I can.  From the laymans point of view it sounds a little bit impossible, how do you observe nonexistence and coming into existence?

A lot of things seem a little bit impossible, that's why it's fascinating. That's why we built LHC, need to see what the fuck is happening there.

 

This is getting off topic, can we take this to the PMs?

this is off topic, you can't go off topic in off topic.

[LtStaffel]

Eventually the universe will experience a "heat death", wherein all energy has been expended. All the stars have burnt out, and the only thing left will likely be blackholes, gas, and maybe some planets that no longer have stars. Thanks to the law of gravity, it's theoretically possible for it all to collapse back in on itself, creating another big bang. Technically, creating a circular pattern.

But there's still matter there.  Let's move this to PMs.

[LtStaffel]

I would say that just because you don't understand a concept, doesn't mean that its explanation is circular. 

True, but that's not the logic I'm using to determine if something is circular or not.

[ZetZet]

But there's still matter there.  Let's move this to PMs.

Now you see that's a shitty argument. Big bang is point 0, we can't see beyond it, we can't tell what happened at the exact time of it or before it, probably never will. Maybe there was matter before big bang, or maybe there were 900 big bangs before we existed, maybe there was no matter before the big bang, we can't tell. You can't tell. It's an idea. 

[JT8101997]

Eventually the universe will experience a "heat death", wherein all energy has been expended. All the stars have burnt out, and the only thing left will likely be blackholes, gas, and maybe some planets that no longer have stars. Thanks to the law of gravity, it's theoretically possible for it all to collapse back in on itself, creating another big bang. Technically, creating a circular pattern.

This is what i always believed will happen.

[Volbet]

He basically said something along the lines of "Because the universe needed to exist, it created itself into existence."  He's basically restating what his point was as a cause or conclusion instead of actually proving it.

Hm, I've never heard of the particles part.  Sounds interesting, I'll have to look into that when I can.  From the laymans point of view it sounds a little bit impossible, how do you observe nonexistence and coming into existence?

That's beacause that is his conclusion to his ponderings.

Basically he is condensing his book, which is already a condensing of his entire life's work, into a single sentence.  

In his book and other works he does argue for why it is possible for something to come from ´nothing´. 

The argument is basically the same as the one brought forth by Lawrence Krauss

A sentence which you then take out of context. I would recommend reading up on where quotes come from before you use them.

 

 

True, but that's not the logic I'm using to determine if something is circular or not.

There is no such thing as "the logic". Thre aren't different kinds of logic to use. Either something falls within the realm of logic or it doesn't. 

[JT8101997]

Haha what happened to this thread...

[LtStaffel]

Now you see that's a shitty argument. Big bang is point 0, we can't see beyond it, we can't tell what happened at the exact time of it or before it, probably never will. Maybe there was matter before big bang, or maybe there were 900 big bangs before we existed, maybe there was no matter before the big bang, we can't tell. You can't tell. It's an idea. 

That's a hopeless way to look at life.  Maybe humanity is just repeating itself, big bang, evolution, humanity, everything dies, repeat.  Why bother to go through with the cycle?