Questions about high end audio

[OttoVonBismarck]

So i've been deciding whether or not to purchase some mid grade, or high end audio equipment. I still have to go and listen for myself but i'm a bit of a recluse so i haven't gotten around to it.

 

right now i have a pair of AD700x's with a E10k DAC/AMP. i typically listen to FLACs if i can get them, MP3 if i cant. 

 

so my questions are:

 

1 - how much do higher end amps and dacs even matter. i have heard some claims that you just wont get good sound from headphone x or y without corresponding $2000 amp and then someone else will go on about tube amps instead that cost $10,000 and the $2000 guy is a filthy casual (bit of an exaggeration ). outside of my experience with the E10k i haven't ever used a DAC before. 

 

2 - how much of a difference is there between a mid range option such as a HD600 or HD650 or AKG k702 and a high end one such as the HD800. right now HD800s are discounted at an audio store near me, being about $100 more expensive than a T1 from beyerdynamic which is another high end option. this is subjective i'm sure but being a recluse i haven't worked up the nerve to go hear them for myself.

 

i spend my time listening to music, playing games or watching movies when it comes to headphone use. the games i play are not ultra precision FPS games in particular if that matters. 

 

i don't have an unlimited bank, just what i save up for myself. i can stretch and afford the HD800 while its discounted, or the T1, but when it comes to buying $2000 amps and dacs and that, that kind of thing is off the table. i exist doing online work that gives me enough money to survive but i don't have much in the way of savings to be buying that sort of thing. regardless audio is important to me because i spend so much of my time listening to it so i have the money i have clearly set aside for this. 

 

i'd like to hear your opinions on it

[colinreay]

I barely have any knowledge on Dacs and such, but I probably would not spend more on a dac then on your headphones. Then again, I have $130 Ath M50x's. If you live by yourself, purchasing a mid end bluetooth headphone set or wired speaker set might do just fine, and is a lot cheaper to first get in the audio game and decide if the audio is actually lacking.

[SSL]

I would not fuck around with $1k+ DACs and amps. The differences are neglibable. Plenty of good combo units to be had under $500 if the E10 isn't cutting it for you.

 

Sweet spot for headphones is around $300-500. Make of that what you will.

[Mr.McMister]

The law of diminishing returns applies to headphones and amps significantly past the $300 mark. What it's worth is ultimately up to you, because while we can objective measure the difference in performance of headphones in frequency response, total harmonic distortion, pulse response, etc. how you percieve those differences is subjective. If at all possible trial any equipment you can before a firm purchase.

 

For amps specifically you need not ever spend more than $2000 if accuracy is your goal and even then a $250 odac/o2(or ~$80 if you can solder) amp is fine for most headphones and more powerful amps like a $400 AMB M^3(or ~$150 in parts iof you can solder) for headphones which work best at higher current like an Audeze LCD-X or sennheiser HD800. Tube amps are more expensive because vacumn tubes are a low volume item, but they will always be less accurate than a good transistor amp at 1/10th the price or less due to the inherent variability in tube performance. The law of diminishing returns also applies much more harshly to amps than headphones and there is a lot more misinformation and big ripoffs in the amp and DAC market.

 

I'd suggest trying your midrange options first. If accuracy is your goal the HD600 is better than the 650 and the akg 612 better than the 702 or 712. Paired with an O2 and ODAC these should sound pretty darn good. If your unsatisfied with these then move on to the higher end options like the Audeze LCD-X and Sennheiser HD800. Keep in mind that nothing will ever sound perfect and your budget comes before your hobby and you'll be fine.

[ShearMe]

Finding a sound signature you prefer, imo, is infinitely more important than how expensive your headphones are. You may like a particular pair for a particular soung, but prefer another for a different album. This is why audiophilia becomes a hobby. You can't settle for one headphone when you don't know how another sounds.

For this reason, I suggest trying multiple "cheap" pairs, figuring out the difference, and working toward your preferred sound. Even the most expensive pair of cans aren't perfect.

Additionally, amps and DACs don't magically alter a headphone's performance. If they do, they aren't performing correctly. You do not want a piece of hardware that alters sound - that's what software is for.

[KaminKevCrew]

I would not fuck around with $1k+ DACs and amps. The differences are neglibable. Plenty of good combo units to be had under $500 if the E10 isn't cutting it for you.

 

Sweet spot for headphones is around $300-500. Make of that what you will.

 

 

The law of diminishing returns applies to headphones and amps significantly past the $300 mark. What it's worth is ultimately up to you, because while we can objective measure the difference in performance of headphones in frequency response, total harmonic distortion, pulse response, etc. how you percieve those differences is subjective. If at all possible trial any equipment you can before a firm purchase.

 

For amps specifically you need not ever spend more than $2000 if accuracy is your goal and even then a $250 odac/o2(or ~$80 if you can solder) amp is fine for most headphones and more powerful amps like a $400 AMB M^3(or ~$150 in parts iof you can solder) for headphones which work best at higher current like an Audeze LCD-X or sennheiser HD800. Tube amps are more expensive because vacumn tubes are a low volume item, but they will always be less accurate than a good transistor amp at 1/10th the price or less due to the inherent variability in tube performance. The law of diminishing returns also applies much more harshly to amps than headphones and there is a lot more misinformation and big ripoffs in the amp and DAC market.

 

I'd suggest trying your midrange options first. If accuracy is your goal the HD600 is better than the 650 and the akg 612 better than the 702 or 712. Paired with an O2 and ODAC these should sound pretty darn good. If your unsatisfied with these then move on to the higher end options like the Audeze LCD-X and Sennheiser HD800. Keep in mind that nothing will ever sound perfect and your budget comes before your hobby and you'll be fine.

 

 

Finding a sound signature you prefer, imo, is infinitely more important than how expensive your headphones are. You may like a particular pair for a particular soung, but prefer another for a different album. This is why audiophilia becomes a hobby. You can't settle for one headphone when you don't know how another sounds.

For this reason, I suggest trying multiple "cheap" pairs, figuring out the difference, and working toward your preferred sound. Even the most expensive pair of cans aren't perfect.

Additionally, amps and DACs don't magically alter a headphone's performance. If they do, they aren't performing correctly. You do not want a piece of hardware that alters sound - that's what software is for.

What these three said basically covers it.

[JSG509]

I like what every one has said so far.  I too am in your position being that I want to get into Audio more.  From I was able to gather its best to start small by trying as many headphones as you can.  Im going to try the more affordable options first and in a few years, who know what we will have that is the latest and greatest, I will then step up my game.  For now, I think I will just make do with the Schiit magni and modi I was recommend, so far so good im loving it. 

[OttoVonBismarck]

thanks a lot everyone, i'll have to figure out what sound signature i like as ShearMe said. i appreciate all the really quick responses

[KaminKevCrew]

thanks a lot everyone, i'll have to figure out what sound signature i like as ShearMe said. i appreciate all the really quick responses

Any time! Most of the regulars are on here all the time, so we are pretty good about responding quickly!