Good Buy?

[WittItDew]

The other day I bought the Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro 250 ohms headphones and the FiiO E09K external amp/dac. I bought the two for some solid music listening and a little mixing to go along with it on my desktop and laptop. Amazon had the choice of the 32 and 80 ohm versions of the 770's as well but of the three the 250 ohms were the cheapest. I also factored in the amp price and features into it. If I would've gone with the 80 ohm version, it would've been paired with the FiiO e10, but was more expensive in the end. I liked the connectivity features of the E09K more, and thought it was a good pairing with the headphones. What do you guys think?

[Theo]

I think its a great buy, i have them too but with an STX and they sound great!

[_ASSASSIN_]

OHM's don't matter, just shows how much of an amp you need to power it, and not all high-end cans are hi OHM's anyways, but personally I don't like the FiiO as a desktop amp, you should have gotten something a tad more high end, but for laptop use, it's perfect

[_ASSASSIN_]

I think its a great buy, i have them too but with an STX and they sound great!

I've said so many times now, STX isn't ever worth the cost when you can get high end stuff for the same price

[Theo]

I've said so many times now, STX isn't ever worth the cost when you can get high end stuff for the same price

Yes but from all the reviews i read it sounds equally good as other non-soundcard solutions at that price, and its in the case so i save up space that way.

[Theo]

OHM's don't matter, just shows how much of an amp you need to power it, and not all high-end cans are hi OHM's anyways, but personally I don't like the FiiO as a desktop amp, you should have gotten something a tad more high end, but for laptop use, it's perfect

OHM's do matter though, otherwise there would be no point in releasing higher impedence cans and yeah while some high end cans have low OHM's they sound a lot better when they are powered by an amp, an example would be the Ultrasone Pro 900.

[OddballMV]

OHM's don't matter, just shows how much of an amp you need to power it, and not all high-end cans are hi OHM's anyways, but personally I don't like the FiiO as a desktop amp, you should have gotten something a tad more high end, but for laptop use, it's perfect

 

It's not all about ohms when powering a headphone, Theo is right there are many low impedance headphones that require a high end amp to sound decent because there are other factors involved.

[Turkatron]

Not too bad.

[ShearMe]

Ohms matter, read the FAQ - it exists for a reason.

 

The other day I bought the Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro 250 ohms headphones and the FiiO E09K external amp/dac. I bought the two for some solid music listening and a little mixing to go along with it on my desktop and laptop. Amazon had the choice of the 32 and 80 ohm versions of the 770's as well but of the three the 250 ohms were the cheapest. I also factored in the amp price and features into it. If I would've gone with the 80 ohm version, it would've been paired with the FiiO e10, but was more expensive in the end. I liked the connectivity features of the E09K more, and thought it was a good pairing with the headphones. What do you guys think?

 

Great! Enjoy them! You might wanna consider throwing a DAC in between, but not completely necessary.

[Turkatron]

Ohms matter, read the FAQ - it exists for a reason.

 

 

Great! Enjoy them! You might wanna consider throwing a DAC in between, but not completely necessary.

I once had a DAC but that was about a THOUSAND YEARS AGO.

[ShearMe]

I once had a DAC but that was about a THOUSAND YEARS AGO.

 

Care to share your secret to immortality?

[Turkatron]

Care to share your secret to immortality?

I'm an Elder Fap Wizard. Also a robot.

[Aphexx]

 I bought the Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro 250 ohms headphones

I hope you took advantage of the $95 770's from my deal of the day thread 

http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/24282-audio-deal-of-the-day/?hl=%2Bdeal+%2Bthe+%2Bday

[Blade of Grass]

OHM's don't matter, just shows how much of an amp you need to power it, and not all high-end cans are hi OHM's anyways, but personally I don't like the FiiO as a desktop amp, you should have gotten something a tad more high end, but for laptop use, it's perfect

Ohms do quite matter. Especially if it's the same headphone but with different resistance. The difference between the 32, 80, 250, and 600 ohm DT770 is their sound signature, they all sound a little different.

[WittItDew]

I hope you took advantage of the $95 770's from my deal of the day thread 

http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/24282-audio-deal-of-the-day/?hl=%2Bdeal+%2Bthe+%2Bday

 

Nah I didn't see your post before my purchase, but I just looked at the ebay link and the seller had zero remaining to sell, and I purchased mine from amazon only a couple nights ago. $95 is quite a bit cheaper than what I paid ($175) lol but oh well, I guess I should keep my eye on that thread more often now!

[ShearMe]

Ohms do quite matter. Especially if it's the same headphone but with different resistance. The difference between the 32, 80, 250, and 600 ohm DT770 is their sound signature, they all sound a little different.

 

I'm pretty sure that's not true, at least not merely because of the impedance. Lets start googling....

[Blade of Grass]

I'm pretty sure that's not true, at least not merely because of the impedance. Lets start googling....

It has to do something with the impedance, but it may also be based on something else. Remember that impedance isn't linear, so maybe the different amount of resistance at different frequencies would EQ (I'm just spit balling ).

[ShearMe]

It has to do something with the impedance, but it may also be based on something else. Remember that impedance isn't linear, so maybe the different amount of resistance at different frequencies would EQ (I'm just spit balling ).

 

But that would only have an EQ effect if your amplifier can't handle the lowest impedance. If your amp is good enough to drive the lowest impedance, the driver will respond at that frequency as it does at all others.

 

That's how I understand it anyways, one of the smart guys can jump in and tell me I'm wrong if so.

[Blade of Grass]

But that would only have an EQ effect if your amplifier can't handle the lowest impedance. If your amp is good enough to drive the lowest impedance, the driver will respond at that frequency as it does at all others.

That's how I understand it anyways, one of the smart guys can jump in and tell me I'm wrong if so.

No. Lets say somehow your amp amplifies every frequency to 0 db. Now when they go through your headphones, the perfectly flat signal will be "coloured" by the headphones. Partially caused by the resistance of the headphones at different frequencies, and the driver/case design.

[ShearMe]

No. Lets say somehow your amp amplifies every frequency to 0 db. Now when they go through your headphones, the perfectly flat signal will be "coloured" by the headphones. Partially caused by the resistance of the headphones at different frequencies, and the driver/case design.

 

Well yeah, but we're comparing the same drivers, where one just has a longer coil. One would think the frequency vs impedance graphs would look the same, maybe with a lesser spike at the resonant freq of the driver with a longer coil?

[Blade of Grass]

Well yeah, but we're comparing the same drivers, where one just has a longer coil. One would think the frequency vs impedance graphs would look the same, maybe with a lesser spike at the resonant freq of the driver with a longer coil?

The change is design would affect the whole thing, but it wouldn't be linear.

You can't just add a extra resistance, you need to remake the whole thing which would cause a difference in sound.

[ShearMe]

I must look into this further. Every time I round a corner in google, I find new subjective evidence for both our arguments...  :wacko:

[ShearMe]

Double post so you get a notification.
 

 

Let’s see what happens if we raise the output impedance ... The current flow is now ...  The voltage produced across the load is ...  This is quite a reduction over the first example.  As the output impedance of the amplifier increases, more output voltage is consumed internally.  The ramifications of this result are highly significant.

 

If all loudspeakers had a constant impedance with frequency, high amplifier output impedance would only reduce voltage gain, (as shown above) but not materially affect the frequency balance of the sound.  Unfortunately, most loudspeakers have a widely varying impedance with frequency.

 

...

 

As amplifier output impedance rises, these differences in frequency response are exaggerated. 

 

What I sum this up to is: As amplifier output impedance increases, the impedance vs frequency graph's curve has more of an effect on the frequency response (EQ).

 

Through negation you can say: If the amp drives the speaker correctly (ie  impedance vs frequency graph's curve has little effect on EQ) when the speaker's nominal impedance is any given value, the EQ will remain practically the same if the nominal impedance of the speaker is increased (assuming making such a change to the driver does not change the curve of the Frequency vs Impedance graph)

 

The function of a speaker is to produce a constant sound pressure level for a constant drive voltage across a defined frequency range.   Power is calculated as voltage multiplied by current.  If the loudspeaker impedance drops and the amplifier voltage is held constant, then the current in the loudspeaker increases (current = voltage ÷ impedance).  If the current increases, then doesn't the power consumed increase?  Yes!  That is exactly what happens.  If the power in the loudspeaker increases, then why doesn't it play louder?  Because the speaker efficiency is changing.  As the speaker impedance decreases, its efficiency decreases.  All that matters is that the acoustic output remain constant. 

 

When a cone is easier to drive, it is less efficient, and when a cone is harder to drive, it is more efficient. In other words, because impedance and efficiency rise and fall with each other, the variations in the impedance of a speaker have no effect on the EQ. 

 

Quotes taken from: http://www.transcendentsound.com/Transcendent/Amplifier_Output_Impedance.html

This illustrates it in a different way: http://lenardaudio.com/education/05_speakers_3.html

 

 

Timbre is character imposed upon the sound by a speakers imperfections. Really good speakers have little character, a perfect speaker would have none. However the state of the art is light years away from that goal at present.

Timbre or character imposed by speakers has a number of sources. Misbehavior of driver cones is a big item. This is especially true of cone break up modes. Different materials break up in different ways. Character imposed by different material has to be dealt with by appropriate crossover points, slopes and notch filters. In many instances this is not done properly and hence character or timbre rear its ugly head. Crossover errors are another potent source of problems. Even when done correctly lobing errors between fronts and mains can be a big source of discontinuity in the front sound stage. Finally we have the problems that cabinet resonances imparting coloration or character the sound.

So yes, it is these errors that give rise to the benign word of timbre. But any way you slice it any sonic footprint of a speaker is an error or deviation. So yes I'm well aware of what timbre matching is, but prefer as usual to call a spade a spade, lest we forget that speakers are still far inferior to the rest of the equipment in our systems.

via:http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/general-av-discussions/60539-what-tonal-quality-speakers.html

 

Please someone tell me if I'm reading all this wrong, it is 4am.  :wacko:

[Blade of Grass]

Double post so you get a notification.

 

 

 

What I sum this up to is: As amplifier output impedance increases, the impedance vs frequency graph's curve has more of an effect on the frequency response (EQ).

 

Through negation you can say: If the amp drives the speaker correctly (ie  impedance vs frequency graph's curve has little effect on EQ) when the speaker's nominal impedance is any given value, the EQ will remain practically the same if the nominal impedance of the speaker is increased (assuming making such a change to the driver does not change the curve of the Frequency vs Impedance graph)

 

 

When a cone is easier to drive, it is less efficient, and when a cone is harder to drive, it is more efficient. In other words, because impedance and efficiency rise and fall with each other, the variations in the impedance of a speaker have no effect on the EQ. 

 

Quotes taken from: http://www.transcendentsound.com/Transcendent/Amplifier_Output_Impedance.html

This illustrates it in a different way: http://lenardaudio.com/education/05_speakers_3.html

 

via:http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/general-av-discussions/60539-what-tonal-quality-speakers.html

 

Please someone tell me if I'm reading all this wrong, it is 4am.  :wacko:

I kinda skimmed what you said, but it seems right. But, I'd think that they can't just add extra resistance, but rather, they'd have to redesign the whole circuitry, which in turn affects how they sound.

 

Unfortunately, most loudspeakers have a widely varying impedance with frequency.

This is the point that I'm getting at. Every speaker "colours" the sound, whether it's from the actual drivers ability/disability in playing certain frequencies, or if it's circuitry removes more of a certain frequency. Remember, headphone impedance is measure at a certain frequency (say 80 Ohms at 1KHz), but the impedance is non-linear (meaning that 20KHz may be 200 Ohms, or it could be 5 Ohms).

[ShearMe]

I suggest you actually read the whole post. :P

 

I have since found out Beyer does in fact redesign the whole driver. I think if you had a speaker with easily changeable wire, a re-coil wouldn't have an effect so long as the amp was suitable for the change in impedance, but alas I don't even know if this mystical speaker exists.

 

I think you're still confused about what effect the impedance plays on EQ. If the amplifier has a low enough output impedance, and if it can supply the voltage and/or amperage at every impedance which the speaker reaches, then the variable impedance of the speaker has no effect on the EQ. If this were not the case, every speaker would be bass heavy, because every speaker becomes easier to drive at it's resonant frequency - this shows up as a spike of lowered impedance in the curve of an impedance vs frequency graph.

 

Certainly not every speaker is bass heavy.

 

Totally derailing this thread....