Plans to implement LTE service over public, unlicenced WiFi spectrum causes industry debate over interference

[kpreg]

Verizon Wireless and T-Mobile US plan to boost coverage in their cellular networks by using unlicensed airwaves that also power Wi-Fi equipment. While cellular carriers generally rely upon airwaves to which they have exclusive licenses, a new system called LTE-Unlicensed (LTE-U) would have the carriers sharing spectrum with Wi-Fi devices on the unlicensed 5GHz band.

 

[R]esearch demonstrates that both LTE-U and LAA would severely decrease the performance of any nearby Wi-Fi network. Widespread deployment of LTE-U or LAA would therefore harm American consumers, schools, and innovators by dramatically reducing the utility of the unlicensed bands for everyone but the companies that already hold licensed spectrum," the NCTA wrote.

Doesn't look so good. Over the last 3 months, I've invested quite a lot to replace my network equipment and devices to support 5Ghz, and the difference I've seen by doing that has been astonishing. LTE is already fast enough IMO and there are several other ways for service providers to increase speeds rather than moving in on public spectrums such as the 5ghz band. But as always, there are two sides to the story;

 

T-Mobile argued that cable company claims are exaggerated. Claims "that the technology will adversely impact Wi-Fi operations are based on testing with parameters set at extremes that do not represent realistic deployments or do not reflect actual LTE-U specifications," T-Mobile wrote. Qualcomm said its testing shows that Wi-Fi access points often have better throughput when sharing a channel with LTE-U than when sharing a channel with another Wi-Fi access point.

 

Luckily,

The FCC hasn't made any final decisions yet. In a filing three weeks ago, the commission said the issue is complicated by the fact that they are "potentially four different types" of LTE-U technology because of separate efforts by industry groups and a proprietary version being developed by Qualcomm.

 

Honestly I really do hope that this doesn't go through. Do you agree?

 

Source:(ArsTechnica): http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/08/verizon-and-t-mobile-join-forces-in-fight-for-wi-fi-airwaves/

 

if if ive made any mistakes please let me know and I will edit ASAP!

[Windows2000]

And here are companies again trying to harm consumers, AGAIN.  -.-

If there are any ways possible to xfer information without using wires or radio waves where consumer application is possible, the person/company who pioneered the technology deserves a fking prize.

 

I know you can xfer information using light and it's being researched atm but....

 

Good thread btw.

[KemoKa]

Ummm... they're not allowed to mess with those spectrums, 2.4GHz and 5GHz are unlicensed public spectrums, it is my right as a citizen to use those spectrums as I see fit. Companies are not allowed to do stuff that would interfere with the public's ability to use those frequencies. If the FCC reviewed case law, they'd remember that less than a year ago, Mariott tried doing this and they were told no, so this should be totally illegal.

[SirNumbers]

And here are companies again trying to harm consumers -.-

If there are any ways possible to xfer information without using wires or radio waves where consumer application is possible, the person/company who pioneered the technology deserves a fking prize.

 

I know you can xfer information using light and it's being researched atm but....

 

Good thread btw.

But for light isnt it like

 

You either see it, it cooks you, or gives you cancer

[kpreg]

Ummm... they're not allowed to mess with those spectrums, 2.4GHz and 5GHz are unlicensed public spectrums, it is my right as a citizen to use those spectrums as I see fit. Companies are not allowed to do stuff that would interfere with the public's ability to use those frequencies. If the FCC reviewed case law, they'd remember that less than a year ago, Mariott tried doing this and they were told no, so this should be totally illegal.

I agree entirely, there must be some legal loophole if it's gone this far that they're exploiting. I'll look into it and update with whatever info I find.

[KemoKa]

We need to replace the 5GHz antennae on our routers and put massive whacking great 20W amplified antennae on them so that our signals aren't drowned out by fucking Verizon and T-Mobile and their bullshit.

[Windows2000]

But for light isnt it like

 

You either see it, it cooks you, or gives you cancer

http://www.theverge.com/2013/10/28/5038130/internet-of-light-scientists-achieve-10-gigabit-data-speeds-using-leds

 

I'm not sure about harming skin, but it states it can't break through walls so I'm thinking it's safe.

Maybe using a plastic cable with mirrors reflecting the light should work?

Since they achieved 10Gbps, it's not a technology without potential.

[KemoKa]

Maybe using a plastic cable with mirrors reflecting the light should work?

I thought we invented fibre optic cable technology in the 80s.

[linuxfan66]

hopefully this dumb little idea will sink into the obscurity it came from...

[Windows2000]

I thought we invented fibre optic cable technology in the 80s.

Well I imagine the light will be much thicker, and the point of the technology is that it is "wireless" so... 

I'm so stupid. I forgot about how fiber optic cables work.

I was suggesting necessarily the same thing.

[SirNumbers]

http://www.theverge.com/2013/10/28/5038130/internet-of-light-scientists-achieve-10-gigabit-data-speeds-using-leds

 

I'm not sure about harming skin, but it states it can't break through walls so I'm thinking it's safe.

Maybe using a plastic cable with mirrors reflecting the light should work?

Since they achieved 10Gbps, it's not a technology without potential.

I thought you meant wireless, thats through wires yea optical cables exist

[KemoKa]

Well I imagine the light will be much thicker, and the point of the technology is that it is "wireless" so... 

I'm so stupid. I forgot about how fiber optic cables work.

I was suggesting necessarily the same thing.

It's easy to forget when it's basically unheard of in America. It's okay dude.

[Ekpyrosis]

This whole LTE-U thing sounds like it violates a lot of standards, the FCC should stay strict to the recommendations of ITU-R, they exist to prevent exactly these kinds of things from happening.

[Scheer]

Personally, I think this is all getting blown way out of proportion. I doubt it will have any meaningful impact on current 5Ghz devices. 

 

 

And here are companies again trying to harm consumers, AGAIN.  -.-

If there are any ways possible to xfer information without using wires or radio waves where consumer application is possible, the person/company who pioneered the technology deserves a fking prize.

 

I know you can xfer information using light and it's being researched atm but....

 

Good thread btw.

 

Hate to break it to you, but the only difference between "radio waves" and light is the frequency. E.g.: http://rfemissions.skmm.gov.my/Images/Electromagnetic-Spectrum.aspx

 

Ummm... they're not allowed to mess with those spectrums, 2.4GHz and 5GHz are unlicensed public spectrums, it is my right as a citizen to use those spectrums as I see fit. Companies are not allowed to do stuff that would interfere with the public's ability to use those frequencies. If the FCC reviewed case law, they'd remember that less than a year ago, Mariott tried doing this and they were told no, so this should be totally illegal.

 

Unlicensed means you don't need a license to use it... doesn't mean you can't use it if you are business. Mariott was in trouble for blocking access, It had nothing to do with what frequency they were blocking, jamming a signal is illegal.

 

I've installed several unlicensed 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz Adtran microwave hops for Verizon (Alltel markets at the time), they are already all over the country up and running, and have been for at least a decade.

You can do whatever you want with the unlicensed bands, so long as you follow all of this: https://transition.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Engineering_Technology/Documents/bulletins/oet63/oet63rev.pdf

Which also includes accepting any harmful interference. Its literally wrote in the rules that if someone is legally using the band, you have no power to do anything about it if it causes you issues. Immoral and wrong, yes. Illegal, no.

[cesrai]

It's easy to forget when it's basically unheard of in America. It's okay dude.

[linuxfan66]

Personally, I think this is all getting blown way out of proportion. I doubt it will have any meaningful impact on current 5Ghz devices.

Hate to break it to you, but the only difference between "radio waves" and light is the frequency. E.g.: http://rfemissions.skmm.gov.my/Images/Electromagnetic-Spectrum.aspx

Unlicensed means you don't need a license to use it... doesn't mean you can't use it if you are business. Mariott was in trouble for blocking access, It had nothing to do with what frequency they were blocking, jamming a signal is illegal.

I've installed several unlicensed 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz Adtran microwave hops for Verizon (Alltel markets at the time), they are already all over the country up and running, and have been for at least a decade.

You can do whatever you want with the unlicensed bands, so long as you follow all of this: https://transition.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Engineering_Technology/Documents/bulletins/oet63/oet63rev.pdf

Which also includes accepting any harmful interference. Its literally wrote in the rules that if someone is legally using the band, you have no power to do anything about it if it causes you issues. Immoral and wrong, yes. Illegal, no.

That also means using it as a carrier critical band is kinda dumb...

[QueenDemetria]

INB4 7GHz WiFi

[Dabombinable]

I thought we invented fibre optic cable technology in the 80s.

So did I. However its slow implementation can also be compared to pair gain which was a problem in the 80's (it severely limits available bandwidth as its a trick used to speed up existing copper connections-saving ISP money and screwing over customers) and to this day hasn't been sorted out (aka, networks upgraded to fibre optics).

[linuxfan66]

So did I. However its slow implementation can also be compared to pair gain which was a problem in the 80's (it severely limits available bandwidth as its a trick used to speed up existing copper connections-saving ISP money and screwing over customers) and to this day hasn't been sorted out (aka, networks upgraded to fibre optics).

Pair gain caused so many problems for adsl deployment in oz because Telstra used to to save money on wiring...

[Dabombinable]

Pair gain caused so many problems for adsl deployment in oz because Telstra used to to save money on wiring...

And then refused to even upgrade their 25+ year old exchanges because they are too new. *sigh* its a shame I can't start my own ISP up off my own network. I need to win the lottery and then some.

[FakezZ]

But for light isnt it like

 

You either see it, it cooks you, or gives you cancer

Lol, it seems like everything gives you cancer these days...

[KemoKa]

So did I. However its slow implementation can also be compared to pair gain which was a problem in the 80's (it severely limits available bandwidth as its a trick used to speed up existing copper connections-saving ISP money and screwing over customers) and to this day hasn't been sorted out (aka, networks upgraded to fibre optics).

Unless you're somewhere that isn't America.

Bastards.

[Dabombinable]

Unless you're somewhere that isn't America.

Bastards.

I'm in Australia - and fuck Telstra.

[KemoKa]

I'm in Australia - and fuck Telstra.

Sorry - Anywhere that is tied in any way, historically, politically or otherwise to America or Britain.

 

Bastards.

[Noctus]

Sorry - Anywhere that is tied in any way, historically, politically or otherwise to America or Britain.

 

Bastards.

<- From Britain, has Fibre, is cheap, is happy