Behringer 502 USB mixer + Rode M1-S Dynamic Mic - setup help needed :)

[NighthawKillian]

- started a new topic as per the advice of another forum member - 

 

Hi all,

 

Just joined up so sorry if I will make any mistakes, but I felt it made no sense to start a new one. Also please forgive typos, language errors.

 

I just bought a Behringer 502 USB mixer and a Rode M1-S dynamic mic.

 

Went with this setup because I wanted a microphone that can pick up voice clearly but without room (house) noise. This is meant for YouTube and Twitch.

 

Ok then, my questions are related mostly to how to best set up this package to get a good volume for my voice while not introducing (internal/technological) background noise. You know what I am referring to, hisses, hums, static like noise. (sorry, English is not my first language and audio tech is not my field).

 

 

Ok so here we go and THANK YOU in advance for your help guys! 

 

One mention: this is all done on Windows 8.1 for now. Will switch to 10 when 100% sure it won't mess up my livestream set up.

 

1) Plug this in via USB 2.0 or 3.0? I have a GA-990FXA-UD3 from Gigabyte (motherboard) and the 2.0 usb ports are marked as 3x powered which leads me to believe that they should act as a powered usb hub would.

 

2) any advantage from using a powered usb hub in regards to reducing noise and getting a cleaner sound?

 

3) Which settings on the mixer are for boosting volume/signal? would those be GAIN, LEVEL and MAIN MIX? 

 

4) Does the "to main mix" button have to be pressed down for the mixer settings to apply to the mic? 

 

5) Does the EQ influence the noise? (read somewhere that the EQ for HIGH is set to be well too high, it can introduce noise)

 

6) What would be the best balance between the mixer volume/gain settings and the one from windows for the mic? Do you recommend balancing them out or prioritising the mixer settings + lowering the windows settings to as low as possible OR the other way around (mixer to low and windows to high) ?

 

 

Overall I wanted to get something like what JayzTwoCents has here:

 

 

or what Steven Johnson has here:

 

 

and here:

 

 

 

but they seem to get better volume than I can. Which leaves me really confused.

 

And not having knoweldge on mixers, the 502's settings are a bit confusing overall with the manual being...not great for beginners 

 

What I don't want to have is the hiss that this guy in the video below has (check out the video @ 9:55 for a quiet moment where you can hear the hiss).

 

 

Thanks for reading this!

[TheSebware]

1. The less components between your Mixer and your PC the better, so DITCH THAT DAMM HUB!

2. Now to wiring it all up:
Use only SYMMETRIC connections wherever possible! That means: Microphone connection: 3-Way XLR ONLY. Other Sources: 2x TRS. That allows you to get rid of noise.

I can explain it, but it's rather technical and doesn't matter. And RCA-Connections ARE FRICKKIN ASSYMETRIC!

If your Mixer has an USB-2 Port, plug it into an USB-2 Socket. Yes, you could technically run USB2 on an USB 3 port and vice-versa, but it saves you a bit overhead.

If you have Dropouts in the audio, use another USB-Port.

3. What makes me louder.
GAIN: DO NEVER TOUCH AFTER THE SOUNDCHECK!.

LEVEL: Live adjustments of that channel (e. g. Microphone)

Master: changes the Volume of the complete mix.

4. How to set up:
PLUG EVERYTHING IN, BEFORE PLUGING IN THE USB!

Turn Level and Master of the first trimmable channel (has gain knob) to 0 (may sound confusing, 0 means straight through without modification of the volume)

Turn the gain knob to the lowest end, then put sth. on the channel (e. g. speak with a normal volume in your microphone) and ramp up the gain until you see the 0-mark on the meter barely flashing.

Turn the level of that channel back to off (fully left) and trimm every channel this way.

That's Input trimming. Now you normally never touch that again, until the input changes (e. g. your musical friend wants to record some vocals)

By male speakers you need to turn down the bass (low) and push the Highs, by females exactly in reverse. How much depends on the speaker and your taste.

That 2nd track to mix-Button is not needed unless you're using 2nd track. If you pushed it in, push it out! (just adds extra noise)

 

If you have any questions left, please ask. I do audio on some hobbyist theaters.

 

TheSebware

[NighthawKillian]

Hey,

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

I am not using a hub. I was asking if I should use one.

 

I have the mic plugged in to the mixer via xlr, then mixer into PC via usb. The cables came with the respective products. (the XLR came with the boom arm, a K&M model).

 

Do you recommend another way to connect the mixer to the pc? Read somewhere (been reading the internet on this a lot so I've not noted all the sites/forums) that using the line out from the mixer into the pc's line in might be better than using the USB. Not sure about this.

 

0 isn't mute? Interesting.

 

Turn the gain knob to the lowest end, then put sth. on the channel (e. g. speak with a normal volume in your microphone) and ramp up the gain until you see the 0-mark on the meter barely flashing.

Turn the level of that channel back to off (fully left) and trimm every channel this way.

 

Confused a bit. So if I set up the level + gain the way I like them, wouldn't turning the level back to off cut out (mute) the respective channel ? 

 

Only planning to use 1 channel so if I have it all set up, is there a point to doing the trimming by turning the level of this single channel back to off?

 

 

GAIN: DO NEVER TOUCH AFTER THE SOUNDCHECK!.

 

What do you mean by "after the soundcheck" ?

 

And one more question: is it worth it to install the ASIO4ALL drivers if I'm going to just use the mic with OBS and not with Audacity/Adobe Audition, etc?

 

Sorry for the silly questions. Don't mean to bother, just looking for advice.

[TheSebware]

Sorry for the silly questions.

 

There are no silly questions. Especially sb. who never did this before has to ask!

 

You turn only one channel up during the trimming phase (also called "soundcheck"), adjusting ONLY the gain knob. Level and Master stay at 0 during the trimming of that channel. When you trimmed the channel, you may not touch the gain knob, but every other knob.

And you're right: If you're only using 1 channel, there is no point of turning it off again.

 

Using the line In is (unless you're using studio grade cards) a bad Idea: Behringer puts in their XENYX-Mixers studio grade soundcards. Maybe not as great as an RME Fireface a friend of mine uses for live CD production, but unless you have a matched pair of microphone valued 10.000 € EACH, you don't need that.

But those onboard soundcards can be tossed in the trash. They never can give you the performance of a "real" soundcard.

Also you don't have (unless you're using studio grade cards) only asymetrical inputs. Avoid them!

 

Mute is minus infinity. 0 is "do nothing", as in make it neither louder nor quieter.

And keep your eye on the level meter! Clipping is bad. Your Mixer (it is an analog one, even if it's got a soundcard in it) is analog, so the right level is at around 0 db, on the digital side (your PC) you have to look, that they are at around -8 db, or you live in danger of clipping.

 

Another tip: Use headphones! If you send the microphone signal to speakers, it's fairly easy to get a feedback loop, which sounds like a very high, rising volume tone.

Men are even easier hit by this, as you have to boost the high bands to get a nice sound.

 

Also important: Experiment with your equipment. I can tell you what I'd do, but there's one thing where I explain it to you, and you actually trying it.

And don't be afraid of messing things up. The gear is so robust, it's pretty hard to brick anything just by playing with the knobs.

 

If you have an Android smartphone or tablet, get a 1/8 in to stereo RCA cable, connect that to the 2nd track and your phone, THEN turn it on.

Turn the sounds (apart from media, that turn up) of your device off and run the app "Custom Soundboard". That way you have a bunch of easy reachable buttons for playing out sound effects like a ding, a gong or whatever

 

As you got a dynamic STAGE microphone you need to get really close, to get any useable level out of it. Dynamic Mikes aren't as fragile as condensers, but are a bit harder to get to a decent level. Also it got a cardioid pattern, which means you have to talk directly to the front (opposite side of the XLR on that microphone), or your level will drop pretty fast.

 

Also: Turn everything off that you're not using: that means Gain to the minimum and Level to - infinity.

 

TheSebware

[TheSebware]

One thing I forgot mentioning:

Avoid middleware like Asio4All as much as possible. ASIO is a low-latency "driver" for professional soundcards. But unless you have a ASIO capable soundcard, which has drivers for that in the box, you will loose performance by using that.

When you use Asio4All the signal travels this way:
Soundcard -> Windows Driver Model/Windows Audio/whatever (high latency) -> ASIO4ALL -> DAW -> ASIO4ALL -> WDM -> Soundcard

If the DAW only records or plays back at once, that's not a problem. If you want to sing to a synthetic instrument, latency is a problem. Also if you're playing on a MIDI-Keyboard a PC based synth. Compensating is partially possible, but extremely hard.

But you stated earlier that you won't use low-latency

Also: Take that Audacity and put it in the Trashcan. Using Audacity for audio works is like using MS Paint for Image/Photo editing.

If you need a DAW (Digital Audio Workstation, Audio Editing program), I'd recommend Studio One by PreSonus, as IMO it's easier to handle than Adobe's Audition 3, which I only use for a quick hack.

 

TL;DR: Avoid software, if possible. Close everything you don't need. DO NOT INSTALL ASIO4ALL! Do not use Audacity, use Studio One by PreSonus.

 

Note: I'm not sponsored or in any way affiliated with any mentioned company. All statements are either common sense for one in the industry or personal experience.

[NighthawKillian]

Hey,

Thanks so much for the advice. 

 

First, I am planning on going back to Windows 7. I have found A LOT of reports online where the 8.1 and 10 usb audio drivers (the generic ones used by any USB audio device) are resulting in lower input volume and more noise for these mics (seriously).

 

I have found that I need to increase the gain by quite a bit on my set up.

 

That introduces noise.

 

Would adding a microphone pre-amp between the mic and the mixer result in MORE volume (sorry for not expressing this in proper terms)? 

Would this also result in more noise or not?

 

Thanks!

[TheSebware]

Generally: The more you amplify, the more noise you get.

So, if you're getting a lot of noise, amplification in any form is the wrong way.

How to track down noise issues:

• Is everything plugged in ALL THE WAY?
  • XLR connectors lock into place, you can hear the click. Unfortunately cheaper equipment saves the locking mechanism.
  • Wiggle on the connectors
  • try pushing them a bit farther in, but without destruction of the Equipment
• Analyse your noise: is it a low hum at 50 Hz? If so, you have a grounding problem
  • Shouldn't be the case for you, as you use your mixer only as Microphone In.
• Are all sources used correctly?
  • Whatever source with volume knobs (e. g. Smartphones) need their knobs turned to maximum, unless you cannot get them to a reasonable level.
  • Your Microphone is a DYNAMIC STAGE microphone. You have to eat it to get ANY reasonable level.

I'm assuming that you are somewhere in Germany with 50 Hz mains frequency. If you are in the USA you have 60 Hz mains frequency.

The only technical thing that would help you IS NOT a amplifier. It's a better microphone. Behringer isn't the highest end. No one will put that in question. But until you have (as I stated earlier) a matched pair of microphones worth over 10.000 Euro (thats 10 thousand, not ten) EACH you don't have to upgrade your hardware.

So save your money on a studio condenser microphone with a large diaphragm.

If you are in Europe, visit in "Treppendorf (Germany)" the "Thomann"-store (www.thomann.de) or call them. They ship iirc in the entire EU

They have everything related to studio, stage and music and can give you tips for your stuff.

I personally worked with a few AKG C 1000 (condenser) and AKG D5 (dynamic) microphones. These are studio condensers that sound really good and have the gain knob on the mixer somewhere between 1/4 and 1/3 up -> less noise due to amplification.

When you're buying microphones: there are types of microphones, that can be broken if you supply 48V of phantom power. Some mixers have a switch for turning it on/off, your's is hardwired to on. And when you're at it: get a shockmount. It doesn't matter if it's a 3rd party or a stock one, but get a shockmount.

If you accidentally touch your microphone stand, you've got rumble in the audio if you're not using a shockmount.

Also don't let fool you by a weirdo saying "this cable sounds better than that other cable".

Yes, there are differences. But unless you got a really crappy one, that doesn't matter. Linus made a Techquickie on that.

But keep in mind: Audio is almost always analog, in your case only the USB link is digital on your setup.

You most likely never touch a digital setup with e. g. a Behringer X32-series or PreSonus StudioLive-series mixer, as they are frickin expensive and can do way more than you ever need.

The earlier mentioned eating of Microphones wasn't a joke. I tell that every single speaker. It really works better that way.

If the speaker is far enough from a dynamic mic away, let's say 10-20 cm, I just mute the channel, as more amplification of that mic just introduces noise (as you discovered yourself) and in my case, as I do PA, which means putting the stuff live mixed on a loudspeaker, introduces feedback loops (nasty high tones), so the channel get's muted until the speaker either yells at me (Response: "Eat that damm microphone and I turn it on" yelled back) or the speaker eats it without any request of doing so.

TheSebware

[NighthawKillian]

Hi,

 

Finally gave in and returned my mixer (Behringer 502 USB) and got a Steinberg UR22 interface instead (paid for the difference).

 

Huge boost in sound quality. Not even funny how much better the Steinberg sounds. It's a night/day difference.

 

Thanks for all the help though, MUCH appreciated.