Need help to choose my camera

[IAmAndre]

Hi,

 

I would like to buy a camera that is waterproof and can resist to impacts, but that can also can take decent pictures in concert rooms, AND that isn't too expensive. I found the Nikon Coolpix S33 that is very affordable (under €100) and I would like to know your thoughts. I have absolutely no knowledge about camera and I've been taking pictures with my phone all the time. Unfortunately my phone isn't waterproof and doesn't do well in concerts (it has an 8mpx rear camera and a 5mpx front one). So I'd like to know if I should just upgrade my phone, or just get a dedicated camera.

 

Thanks

[The Pizza Thief]

Are you more focused on pictures or videos? Because you could get something like the cheapest Go Pro, or some of the korean action cams (I have one myself) they are not that far from the go pros.

[IAmAndre]

Are you more focused on pictures or videos? Because you could get something like the cheapest Go Pro, or some of the korean action cams (I have one myself) they are not that far from the go pros.

Do they take good pictures/videos in concert environments.

Nice profile picture btw

[ALwin]

Hi,

 

I would like to buy a camera that is waterproof and can resist to impacts, but that can also can take decent pictures in concert rooms, AND that isn't too expensive. I found the Nikon Coolpix S33 that is very affordable (under €100) and I would like to know your thoughts. I have absolutely no knowledge about camera and I've been taking pictures with my phone all the time. Unfortunately my phone isn't waterproof and doesn't do well in concerts (it has an 8mpx rear camera and a 5mpx front one). So I'd like to know if I should just upgrade my phone, or just get a dedicated camera.

 

Thanks

 

Waterproof or Weatherproof?  These are two different concepts in camera design.

 

Most cameras are weatherproof to some degree or another, but very very few are waterproof.

 

Weather proof means that the camera design incorporates rubber seals at certain joints and ports to prevent dirt, rain water, snow, entering the body.  But the amount of weatherproofing depends on the model, for example entry level DSLRs have almost no weatherproofing while professional level DSLRs have quite a lot.  However even photographers who use these high end expensive bodies with heavy weatherproofing will use a protective cover if they feel uncomfortable taking the camera out in heavy rain or snow or other elements.

 

Waterproof is the concept that the camera can be used underwater.  Again, the amount of waterproofing depends on the type.  I classify waterproof cameras into two categories.

1. Cameras with waterproof seals built in

2. Cameras that require an external waterproof housing, which adds to the price.

 

Most common cameras that fall into the first category are point-n-shoot cameras that are designed for shallow water use such as pools and beaches.

Examples:

Ricoh WG-30w which is designed to be waterproof down to a few meters of depth for a limited time

Nikon AW1, a compact interchangeable lens camera that is waterproof down to about 15m depth.  Currently the only interchangeable lens camera that is waterproof on the market.  On a side note, in the days of film photography there was a DSLR designed for underwater use.  The Nikonos.

 

For cameras that require underwater housings

1. Sports/Action cameras like the GoPro

2. Brands such as Ikelite, Sea&Sea, Nauticam, etc. make a variety of underwater housings for various types of cameras.  Additionally both Nikon and Canon offer cheap underwater housings for some of their high end compact cameras, such as the Canon G16.  However, most professionals consider these housings to be less reliable than housings made by the brands mentioned previously.  Depending on the type of camera, underwater housing prices vary.  They reason:

 

1. Underwater housings for compact and non-interchangeable lens cameras tend to cost less because the lens port is usually one size fits all.

2. Underwater housings for DSLRs and cameras with interchangeable lens systems are more expensive.  Not only do you need to buy the housing designed for your specific camera body, but also the lens ports that are compatible with the lens you intend to use.  And not every brand supports every available lens.

 

One of the major benefits of underwater housings made by brands such as Ikelite, Nautica, Sea&Sea, over what Nikon, Canon and other camera manufacturers is the fact that the housings designed by these specialists are designed for deeper depths.

 

Ok we've briefly discussed Waterproof and Weatherproof.  Now let's move onto shockproofing:

No matter how much shockproofing the designer incorporates, it will never be enough for cameras.  There is absolutely no possible way to insert enough shockproofing into anything the size of camera bodies, whether they be compact or large DSLRs, there just isn't enough room with all the components inside.

 

So for shockproofing, the No.1 RULE is: take care of your gear.  And if you can't follow that rule, there are some housings that provide some measure of shockproofing but they are mostly for phones and compact cameras.  However the amount of protection they provide is not much, the case may prevent your precious camera from getting scratched or dented, but it may not prevent internal components from jarring and potentially misaligning or breaking (e.g. lens elements).

 

Finally, I am assuming you want to do Photography first, taking photos at concerts.

Most concerts occur either in the evenings outdoors or in concert rooms where the ambient lights are turned down.  I do realize that there are some outdoor concerts that happen in the day time.  However I will discuss taking photos in low light conditions, as a camera that can take decent photos in low light will do very well where there is enough light.

 

There are a few factors that determine how good a camera is for low light usage.

1. Lens, primarily aperture

2. Sensor size

3. ISO capabilities

4.Shutter speeds. I'll start with this.

 

Shutter speeds: the amount of time the shutter stays open for the image capture element, film in the old days, digital sensors in modern times.  The longer the shutter stays opens the more light it can capture.  However with longer shutter speeds, unless the camera is attached to something solid such as a tripod, the more chances that the capture image will be blurry due to vibrations in your hand and arms if you hold the camera in your hand.  Additionally when the shutter stays open longer if there is any movement in the scene the image will not be sharp.  For example, if your shutter stays open for 10 seconds and you take a photo of a fast moving car all you will see afterwards is a blur.  Previously I mentioned that the longer the shutter stays open the more light it captures, so there is the risk that your photo will be over exposed and all you get is a big white patch.

 

ISO (a.k.a. Film Speed), comes from the days of film photography.  Depending on the quality of the light at the location where you wanted to take a photo, photographers had to choose their film based on film speeds such as ISO 200, ISO 400, ISO800, with higher numbers being more sensitive to capture light.  On film, the ISO number indicated that the light sensitive chemicals coated on the film paper were a certain size.  An analogy is thinking ISO as an indicator of water bucket size, the larger the bucket the more water it could hold.

 

With digital sensors on camera, as you cannot physically change the sensor, ISO sensitivity is achieved in another way.  The size of the photo sensitive cells on the sensor remain the same and when light coming through the lens hits the sensor it creates an electrical charge.  ISO sensitivity is increased by boosting that electrical charge by adding more power to the sensor.  The downside is that as there are millions of photo cells placed next to each other on that tiny sensor, the more charge that is added to the sensor means the higher chance of a charge for a particular photo cell leaking to the neighboring cells.  Hence the noise you see when you take photos at high ISO.  Many cameras have built in processing that tries to reduce the amount of noise, and you can also reduce noise further in post processing.  But most cameras, though they maybe rated to support a certain range of ISO values, they work best in the first 1/3 to 1/2 range.  So a camera rated to support ISO 50-12800 will work best with ISO 50-1600 without major noise issues.

 

Sensor size, it should be obvious that cameras that utilize larger sensors will be able to handle low light conditions better.  An 8 megapixel iPhone camera with a tiny sensor will have smaller photo cells crammed into that tiny surface compared to an 8 megapixel full frame sensor.

 

Lens aperture, this is the iris opening that also controls the amount of light hitting the sensor.  The size of this opening is inversely (or directly, depending on how you view it) proportional to the Aperture value indicated on the camera.  People talk about Aperture by saying f1.2, f11, f16 but when written they use f/1.2, f/11, f/16.  The higher the number spoken, or the smaller the fraction written, the smaller the diameter of the opening.  The number system is based on the ratio of the focal length of the lens to the diameter of the aperture.  As there are two types of lenses (zoom and fixed focal length), there are also two types of aperture systems in lenses.

1. Constant aperture

2. Variable aperture

 

Constant aperture means that the lens has a constant maximum wide aperture at any focal length it supports. So a 24-70mm f/2.8 zoom lens will support a wide aperture of f/2.8 at any focal length.  These lenses tend to be expensive because to keep that constant wide aperture lens elements have to be also wide enough at any focal length for the aperture ratio to work.  Prime lenses (a.k.a. fixed focal length lenses) are always constant aperture as they all are of only a single focal length.

 

Variable aperture lens have a maximum wide aperture at only their widest focal length.  For example a 24-85mm lens f/3.5-5.6 lens will have the widest f/3.5 aperture only when it is at 24mm, but when zoomed to 85mm the widest aperture available will be f/5.6.  These lenses tend to be cheaper as the lens elements do not have to be large.

 

Aperture, shutter speeds, ISO, are all measured in what is called "STOP".  Each full STOP of light indicates whether the amount of light hitting the sensor has doubled or halved.  This is best explained via examples.

 

Additionally aperture has a relationship with image sharpness and depth of field. Every lens on the market has a sweet range of aperture where the image will be the best quality, typically this is between f/4 and f/11.  Depth of field indicates how "deep" the sharpness of elements in the photo will be.  Wide apertures will cause very shallow depth of field, smaller apertures will provide larger DOF.  You can read more about Depth of Field on this website.

 

Shutter speed: 1/100th of a second

Aperture: f/2.8

ISO: 200

 

If I increase the ISO to 400, that will double the amount of light being recorded by the camera's sensor as I have just doubled the sensitivity.  If the settings in my example were for Normal exposure, by doubling the ISO I have just overexposed the image.

 

To counter this, I can either set the shutter speed to 1/200th of a second to make it stay open half as long or change the aperture to f/5.6 to make the size of the opening half the size.

 

And after experimenting with all these settings you still need more light to capture a good photo:  Get more light into the scene!

 

Now that you've read all this, I hope, we can talk about selecting a suitable camera.

[ALwin]

Are you going to be doing mainly photography?

Do you think you will want to record video with a photo camera? 

(There are pros and cons to using a camera designed to take photos first for recording videos.)

Do you want something small and lightweight to carry around?

Do you need to have an interchangeable lens system?

Do you plan or hope to make some money with your photos?

 

We can talk about budget once you figure some of these things out.

[IAmAndre]

Are you going to be doing mainly photography?

Do you think you will want to record video with a photo camera? 

(There are pros and cons to using a camera designed to take photos first for recording videos.)

Do you want something small and lightweight to carry around?

Do you need to have an interchangeable lens system?

Do you plan or hope to make some money with your photos?

 

We can talk about budget once you figure some of these things out.

 

So I'll answer these questions one by one :

 

Are you going to be doing mainly photography?

I'll take photos and videos, but I'll probably take more photos.

Do you think you will want to record video with a photo camera? 

Yes

Do you want something small and lightweight to carry around?

Yes, that's a big deal for me.

Do you need to have an interchangeable lens system?

No.

Do you plan or hope to make some money with your photos?

Not at all.

[ALwin]

So I'll answer these questions one by one :

 

Are you going to be doing mainly photography?

I'll take photos and videos, but I'll probably take more photos.

Do you think you will want to record video with a photo camera? 

Yes

Do you want something small and lightweight to carry around?

Yes, that's a big deal for me.

Do you need to have an interchangeable lens system?

No.

Do you plan or hope to make some money with your photos?

Not at all.

 

Ok based on that you certainly should look for a camera that is at least an APS-C format.  It's not a 35mm full frame sensor, just slightly smaller.  You can compare the various sizes here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_sensor_format

 

These cameras can be good for your use:

1. Fuji X series of mirrorless cameras with APS-C Sensors. e.g. Fuji X-M1

2. Entry level DSLRs from Nikon, Canon.

3. Like the Fuji, Sony's line of mirrorless cameras with APS-C sensors like the Sony Alpha a5100

 

Most of them will have interchangeable lens capabilities, which is a good thing as you can have a decent zoom lens because you may not always be in the front row of a concert.  The mirrorless camera bodies are compact and the lenses made for them will be smaller, lighter to carry around.  My everyday casual camera is a Fuji X-E2.

[IAmAndre]

Ok based on that you certainly should look for a camera that is at least an APS-C format.  It's not a 35mm full frame sensor, just slightly smaller.  You can compare the various sizes here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_sensor_format

 

These cameras can be good for your use:

1. Fuji X series of mirrorless cameras with APS-C Sensors. e.g. Fuji X-M1

2. Entry level DSLRs from Nikon, Canon.

3. Like the Fuji, Sony's line of mirrorless cameras with APS-C sensors like the Sony Alpha a5100

 

Most of them will have interchangeable lens capabilities, which is a good thing as you can have a decent zoom lens because you may not always be in the front row of a concert.  The mirrorless camera bodies are compact and the lenses made for them will be smaller, lighter to carry around.  My everyday casual camera is a Fuji X-E2.

 

Thanks for your very detailed explanations, but I don't want something that is "professional grade". Again, I've been taking pictures with my phone for a while and I'm totally fine with that. The only downside is the lack of water resistance and its poor performance in concert environments. That's why I wouldn't spend a lot on a dedicated camera it can't be about the same dimensions and the same price of a smartphone, I'd just get a smartphone with a better camera.

I found the Nixon S33 that costs around €100, which I can afford. Do you think that it would perform that a regular middle-end smartphone in dark environments (the camera is waterproof).

 

Thanks 

[ALwin]

If your budget is only for a compact camera, any will be good if they meet your requirements.  They will more or less perform the same.  They just won't be ideal for low light.

 

So you really wanted a waterproof camera?  Why do you want a waterproof camera?

 

Here's a list of compact waterproof cameras, I suggest you read reviews and see what people have to say about the models you are interested in.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?ntt=waterproof&Ns=p_OVER_ALL_RATE|1&ci=9811&setNs=p_OVER_ALL_RATE|1&N=4288586282&srtclk=sort

[IAmAndre]

If your budget is only for a compact camera, any will be good if they meet your requirements.  They will more or less perform the same.  They just won't be ideal for low light.

 

So you really wanted a waterproof camera?  Why do you want a waterproof camera?

 

Here's a list of compact waterproof cameras, I suggest you read reviews and see what people have to say about the models you are interested in.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?ntt=waterproof&Ns=p_OVER_ALL_RATE|1&ci=9811&setNs=p_OVER_ALL_RATE|1&N=4288586282&srtclk=sort

OK the Nixon that appears first is the one I mentioned previously. Well since you're saying that they would perform the same as my smartphone, I'd rather not buy any and stick with my smartphone, then buy later a waterproof smartphone with a better camera. I need it to be waterproof because I do a lot of sport and would like to take pictures at the swimming pool/beach.

[ALwin]

Most modern phone cameras perform more or less the same with compact cameras as their sensors are of similar size, only that compact cameras are optimized for photography and offers more control over your settings than a phone.

 

Something like a GoPro is suitable for what you want, and you can also set it to take photos instead of videos.  The standard GoPro housing is rated to a depth of 60m, that's 20m deeper than recreational sports diving limits.

 

By the way, I don't know what kind of phone you use but there are underwater cases for phones.  Search online if one is available for your phone model.

http://www.watershot.com/housings.html

[IAmAndre]

Most modern phone cameras perform more or less the same with compact cameras as their sensors are of similar size, only that compact cameras are optimized for photography and offers more control over your settings than a phone.

 

Something like a GoPro is suitable for what you want, and you can also set it to take photos instead of videos.  The standard GoPro housing is rated to a depth of 60m, that's 20m deeper than recreational sports diving limits.

 

By the way, I don't know what kind of phone you use but there are underwater cases for phones.  Search online if one is available for your phone model.

http://www.watershot.com/housings.html

Hmm these housings are very expensive though. I buy a very cheap one on eBay last week and I'll use that until I found a better and solution. 

[ALwin]

What you bought from ebay is not an underwater housing at all, it's just a watertight bag.  The quality of the plastic material used will affect the quality of your images.

 

Real underwater cases for phones come with a higher quality plastic or glass element for the area that covers the phone's camera lens.  Giving you better image quality.