Do consoles get memory errors?

[Trik'Stari]

So, having recently RMA'd some RAM for errors that seemed to appear completely at random, I got to thinking.

 

Do consoles get memory errors in their RAM, the way that PC's do? I have to admit, the only problem I ever had was a RRoD on my 360, but I don't think I've ever heard of faulty RAM on a console. Do they use ECC modules?

 

I just thought it was an interesting topic, especially if they don't use ECC RAM.

 

Discuss...

[Critizin]

The RRoD can occur because of faulty RAM.. so yes.

[Trik'Stari]

The RRoD can occur because of faulty RAM.. so yes.

Really? As far I as remember from those days it was always the heat/bad solder issue.

[KemoKa]

So, having recently RMA'd some RAM for errors that seemed to appear completely at random, I got to thinking.

 

Do consoles get memory errors in their RAM, the way that PC's do? I have to admit, the only problem I ever had was a RRoD on my 360, but I don't think I've ever heard of faulty RAM on a console. Do they use ECC modules?

 

I just thought it was an interesting topic, especially if they don't use ECC RAM.

 

Discuss...

I'm sure they do, but I'm not really sure seeing as I've never seen a RAM error on one before. What sort of things could you expect to see as a result from a RAM error?

I really don't think they'd have ECC memory in them. You need server-grade equipment for that sort of thing, and the console hardware is anything but that.

[Critizin]

Really? As far I as remember from those days it was always the heat/bad solder issue.

 

RRoD can be caused by any of the xbox's hardware malfunctioning. literally anything.  u get a RRoD it could be because of anything and one of those reasons was faulty ram.

[Trik'Stari]

I'm sure they do, but I'm not really sure seeing as I've never seen a RAM error on one before. What sort of things could you expect to see as a result from a RAM error?

I really don't think they'd have ECC memory in them. You need server-grade equipment for that sort of thing, and the console hardware is anything but that.

I'm getting a slow post time from my RAM errors, bootup after post is fine, but actual post time is slooooow.

 

RAM errors are pretty much unpredictable from what I've been told.

 

The main thing I'm curious about here, is the whole "cosmic rays causing RAM errors" thing. I mean, if it happens to PC, it surely must happen to consoles as well, right?

[bob345]

Its still normal ram. There is nothing making consoles immune to memory errors so i believe that it does happen.

[Critizin]

I'm getting a slow post time from my RAM errors, bootup after post is fine, but actual post time is slooooow.

 

RAM errors are pretty much unpredictable from what I've been told.

 

The main thing I'm curious about here, is the whole "cosmic rays causing RAM errors" thing. I mean, if it happens to PC, it surely must happen to consoles as well, right?

 

Well.... my orginal xbox 360 takes years to start up these days.    id assume thats because cosmic rays and stufff *puts on tinfoil hat*

[Trik'Stari]

Well.... my orginal xbox 360 takes years to start up these days.    id assume thats because cosmic rays and stufff *puts on tinfoil hat*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soft_error#Cosmic_rays_creating_energetic_neutrons_and_protons

[AMICLG]

I'm sure they do, but I'm not really sure seeing as I've never seen a RAM error on one before. What sort of things could you expect to see as a result from a RAM error?

I really don't think they'd have ECC memory in them. You need server-grade equipment for that sort of thing, and the console hardware is anything but that.

The Xbox 360 used a PowerPC by IBM so theoretically they could have used one that supported EEC but it would of increase the price of manufacturing by a lot meaning a smaller profit margin. Last time I poked my head in an Xbox 360 to fix it for a friend it used Samsung RAM and we all know Samsung is pretty damn good at making various flash modules.

[KemoKa]

I'm getting a slow post time from my RAM errors, bootup after post is fine, but actual post time is slooooow.

 

RAM errors are pretty much unpredictable from what I've been told.

 

The main thing I'm curious about here, is the whole "cosmic rays causing RAM errors" thing. I mean, if it happens to PC, it surely must happen to consoles as well, right?

Well, the cosmic rays thing is one of those things that is associated with RAM because of what RAM is and what it does. RAM is by far and away the most heavily used buses in the system, simply because it's dynamic memory. It's so volatile that the computer has to constantly refresh what is written onto the chip or it will be lost. If it were SRAM instead, boot times would be virtually nonexistent, but that's another discussion. what we're discussing is errors. Because of the way random access memory works and is tied to the system, it's much like a PSU in that any number of things can cause errors or crashes. Most of the pins on a CPU go straight to memory. It could be a connection problem on the RAM, CPU, Motherboard, chipset. It could be a problem in the code that causes a glitch. Really anything I make as an example could technically be a valid point, because spraying coffee into your computer could legitimately cause a RAM error. Now, for little hiccups and trip-ups, the error may only last for a couple of milliseconds before the insane refresh rate of the memory overwrites it, but if it's a persistent error caused by a bad line of code or instruction, then that's really bad. For the average consumer it's not a huge deal for small slips, and if it gets to be a huge problem, you just replace the memory, but for servers, a small hiccup is bad news bears.

 

But you probably knew that already. Sorry I ranted a bit. TLDR; Is it cosmic rays? No, but the amount of things that can make it happen certainly make it seem like it.

[connorpiper]

The Xbox 360 used a PowerPC by IBM so theoretically they could have used one that supported EEC but it would of increase the price of manufacturing by a lot meaning a smaller profit margin. Last time I poked my head in an Xbox 360 to fix it for a friend it used Samsung RAM and we all know Samsung is pretty damn good at making various flash modules.

 

*Cough* *Cough*

 

The PowerPC CPU was based off the IBM CELL CPU that was ordered by Sony. (Industrial Espionage) 

[KemoKa]

The Xbox 360 used a PowerPC by IBM so theoretically they could have used one that supported EEC but it would of increase the price of manufacturing by a lot meaning a smaller profit margin. Last time I poked my head in an Xbox 360 to fix it for a friend it used Samsung RAM and we all know Samsung is pretty damn good at making various flash modules.

They have no incentive to put ECC-capable hardware in a lightweight gaming machine, as it means smaller profit margin for them, higher production costs, and a benefit that literally no-one will be able to notice in the short run at the very least. Most consumer-grade computers and even workstations don't have ECC memory in them. It's only for applications where a memory error can have severe repercussions for the operator, and a couple of artifacts on a console do not cost Microsoft or the consumer a penny.

[KemoKa]

*Cough* *Cough*

 

The PowerPC CPU was based off the IBM CELL CPU that was ordered by Sony. (Industrial Espionage) 

does this matter?

[connorpiper]

does this matter?

You said "By IBM" when technically speaking, by Sony. 

 

If you did not care, you could have ignored the comment. 

[GuruMeditationError]

I've only ever seen one console that actually generated an error message. It was an original xbox that I got second hand from Game over here in the U.K. They told me it was unusual (I'm not sure if they meant the error message itself or the fact that it was just generating an error message).

 

I've had consoles that freeze but not frequently. The freezes that I've experienced with consoles are very few and far between. 

[KemoKa]

You said "By IBM" when technically speaking, by Sony. 

 

If you did not care, you could have ignored the comment. 

It really doesn't make a difference. IBM is the one that manufactures the processors. It's not industrial espionage, it's a business model that is applicable today. Apple's mobile processors are made-to-order by ARM Holdings. The APUs in the next-gen-consoles are made-to-order by AMD, and AMD CPUs are made by Global Foundries anyway. How on earth is the PowerPC any different?

[Whiskers]

You said "By IBM" when technically speaking, by Sony. 

 

If you did not care, you could have ignored the comment. 

 

The Cell broadband engine was designed and developed by Sony, Toshiba and IBM together. As far as I have been able to gather, IBM is typically the one credited with its development as they were the company chiefly responsible for the research and development process.

 

As for the OP - yes, consoles can indeed get memory errors. There is a lot of misunderstanding and miscommunication when it comes to the Xbox 360's RRoD - it is not one issue, it is just the way that the console informs the user what kind of issue the console is suffering from. The most common one (3 LEDs, indicating a "General Hardware Failure") is typically the one associated with the RRoD issue - and if the console's RAM were to develop a fault, it is likely the one which the user would be shown.

[Sauron]

There's no way in hell they're using ecc memory in a <400$ box. Memory errors do occur, however there are less factors that may cause them to since the os is limited.