[ BREAKING NEWS ] Copenhagen free speech debate shooting: One dead [ BREAKING NEWS ]

[Sauron]

God damn it extremists ruin everything.

 

Key point here, a difference should be made between normal believers and extremists

[Rashy]

Their behaviour is extreme when compared to others, but are they really extremists? They're just Muslims following the Quran more closely and with less nitpicking. The Quran says a few times that mocking the prophet is one of the biggest offences possible.

bummer. Quran code said to follow the prophet, Muhammad was thrown rocks and spat on while going to the mosque by one guy, when that one guy got sick, muhammad visited him and bring him food. Moral of the story is to be friendly even towards your enemy, Extremists like to erase that and they only read the cover of Al Qur'an

[Sauron]

I dont understand, what is the different between Islam and Muslim? Religion and race?

 

Exactly my point, there is no difference. I was answering to @OlekKing who said the satire "was directed at Islam, not Muslims".

[zappian]

Key point here, a difference should be made between normal believers and extremists

 

Thats why i mentioned that

[thekeemo]

This was directed at Islam, not Muslims.

And what to members of a religion have to do with a race? Are you one of those people who screams "Islamophobia!" and thinks that ridicule/critique of Islam is the same as racism?

how is that

This was directed at Islam, not Muslims.

And what to members of a religion have to do with a race? Are you one of those people who screams "Islamophobia!" and thinks that ridicule/critique of Islam is the same as racism?

thats like saying making fun mlk is not directed at black people and making fun of jesus is not directed at christians

[Lewellyn]

question wouldnt that count as hate speech? Like if you drew black people as slaves to demean them?

 

No, no it would not....

 

wtf kind of question is this?

[OlekKing]

He's just saying if it was satire and generalization over a DIFFERENT group of people, for example black people, the guy wouldn't have been allowed to speak in public. And saying it was directed at Islam and not Muslims is like saying racism is directed towards the "race", not people of that "race".

Yeah but again you're comparing a religious cult to a racial group. Nothing to do with each other...

You are not born a Muslim, or Christian, you are born into a religious family who indoctrinate you, or maybe you consciously make a choice to be religious later in life.

How is that the same as being born with a particular physical characteristic? The answer is simple....it isn't.

Ridiculing an ideology/idea has nothing to do with ridiculing a racial group.

 

The caricature made by the cartoonist was a depiction of the prophet Muhammad, not some random Muslim person...

[Lewellyn]

He's just saying if it was satire and generalization over a DIFFERENT group of people, for example black people, the guy wouldn't have been allowed to speak in public. And saying it was directed at Islam and not Muslims is like saying racism is directed towards the "race", not people of that "race".

 

Islam is not a race or an ethnicity it is a religion.

[SIGSEGV]

bummer. Quran code said to follow the prophet, Muhammad was thrown rocks and spat on while going to the mosque by one guy, when that one guy got sick, muhammad visited him and bring him food. Moral of the story is to be friendly even towards your enemy, Extremists like to erase that and they only read the cover of Al Qur'an

Not only that, but there was a blind homeless man who constantly said the most vile things about Muhammed (PBUH), the Prophet (PBUH) used to bring him food anyways. The man didn't know that it was the Prophet (PBUH) who was feeding him until the Prophet (PBUH) was too sick to visit him and one of the companions went to feed him instead.

[OlekKing]

Islam is not a race or an ethnicity it is a religion.

Thank you...I really didn't expect to see people making this stupid comparison here, then defending it further.

[Rashy]

Not only that, but there was a blind homeless man who constantly said the most vile things about Muhammed (PBUH), the Prophet (PBUH) used to bring him food anyways. The man didn't know that it was the Prophet (PBUH) who was feeding him until the Prophet was too sick to visit him and one of the companions went to feed him instead.

I see someone has been hearing friday lectures.

 

May i say that Extremist are Literalists? They take everything literally like the Qur'an, they dont pick the moral thats inside, they just look at it plain faced.

[Lewellyn]

Thank you...I really didn't expect to see people making this stupid comparison here, then defending it further.

 

People actually think that making a cartoon about jesus in a way that makes fun of the religion.. is considered hate speech towards christians... holy shit.

[OlekKing]

bummer. Quran code said to follow the prophet, Muhammad was thrown rocks and spat on while going to the mosque by one guy, when that one guy got sick, muhammad visited him and bring him food. Moral of the story is to be friendly even towards your enemy, Extremists like to erase that and they only read the cover of Al Qur'an

And? How do a few "feel good" stories excuse the rest that's in the Quran? There are many verses demeaning non believers to almost sub-human levels, as well as inciting Muslims to kill them, the absence of belief itself in Allah is said to be an offence, do you want me to quote these? Should i even bother quoting them since i already know you'll come up with some apologist bullshit and shrug it off?

[SIGSEGV]

I see someone has been hearing friday lectures.

 

May i say that Extremist are Literalists? They take everything literally like the Qur'an, they dont pick the moral thats inside, they just look at it plain faced.

No, that description of them is wrong. The extremists are people who have been brainwashed by... Let's called them kuffarophobes, who cherry pick parts from the Quran and hadith out of context that suit their agenda.

[Sauron]

Yeah but again you're comparing a religious cult to a racial group. Nothing to do with each other...

You are not born a Muslim, or Christian, you are born into a religious family who indoctrinate you, or maybe you consciously make a choice to be religious later in life.

How is that the same as being born with a particular physical characteristic? The answer is simple....it isn't.

Ridiculing an ideology/idea has nothing to do with ridiculing a racial group.

 

The caricature made by the cartoonist was a depiction of the prophet Muhammad, not some random Muslim person...

 

It's the same thing as generalization, mocking and discrediting of a group of people is bad and stupid regardless of whether they have a belief, physical characteristic or whatever else in common. And as for insulting "only Mohammed", the Pope addressed this kind of thing extremely well: if you insult someone's mother, they aren't going to tell you "oh, go right ahead, this isn't offending me in any way". For a Muslim, Mohammed is as "valuable" (for lack of a better word) as his mother if not more.

 

And if we want to talk about physical attributes vs way of thinking, let's take out the OTHER elephant in the room: homosexuals. They don't have any physical characteristic that makes them different from heterosexuals. Yet they choose to be and behave as homosexuals. However if this guy had made a caricature on homosexuals he may even have been charged with homophobia, most certainly not have been invited to a conference on free speech.

[SIGSEGV]

And? How do a few "feel good" stories excuse the rest that's in the Quran? There are many verses demeaning non believers to almost sub-human levels, as well as inciting Muslims to kill them, the absence of belief itself in Allah is said to be an offence, do you want me to quote these? Should i even bother quoting them since i already know you'll come up with some apologist bullshit and shrug it off?

Is there any point even arguing with you at this point? You're just gonna bring up the same verses every other guy brings up against Islam completely out of context. Admit it, you want Islam to be a religion of hate.

[OlekKing]

I see someone has been hearing friday lectures.

 

May i say that Extremist are Literalists? They take everything literally like the Qur'an, they dont pick the moral thats inside, they just look at it plain faced.

Huh? Are you going to interpret every single sentence to your liking? There's a level of interpretation, and there are also plenty of things which are direct statements and affirmations, not up for interpretation.

Whenever it doesn't suit you, you simply say "You don't understand it, you interpreted it wrong!".

[Sauron]

Islam is not a race or an ethnicity it is a religion.

 

It's still a group of people that's being generalized and offended. Why is that ok when it's religion?

[Rashy]

And? How do a few "feel good" stories excuse the rest that's in the Quran? There are many verses demeaning non believers to almost sub-human levels, as well as inciting Muslims to kill them, the absence of belief itself in Allah is said to be an offence, do you want me to quote these? Should i even bother quoting them since i already know you'll come up with some apologist bullshit and shrug it off?

calm down bro, you win

 

No, that description of them is wrong. The extremists are people who have been brainwashed by... Let's called them kuffarophobes, who cherry pick parts from the Quran and hadith out of context that suit their agenda.

+1. Thats the way of describing them... Heck we even got ISIS in Indonesia, internal conflicts, just waiting for gunshots to open them im lootin some 980's!

[Sauron]

Whenever it doesn't suit you, you simply say "You don't understand it, you interpreted it wrong!".

 

The same accusation could be moved to you. Who are you to say YOUR interpretation of the Quran or any other text is correct and whoever disagrees is an idiot bathing himself in dogmas?

[Lewellyn]

It's the same thing as generalization, mocking and discrediting of a group of people is bad and stupid regardless of whether they have a belief, physical characteristic or whatever else in common. And as for insulting "only Mohammed", the Pope addressed this kind of thing extremely well: if you insult someone's mother, they aren't going to tell you "oh, go right ahead, this isn't offending me in any way". For a Muslim, Mohammed is as "valuable" (for lack of a better word) as his mother if not more.

 

Insulting someone's mother is not grounds for them to actually threaten you with bodily harm. 

[OlekKing]

Is there any point even arguing with you at this point? You're just gonna bring up the same verses every other guy brings up against Islam completely out of context. Admit it, you want Islam to be a religion of hate.

I want to not even talk about it, but since certain Muslims continue to murder people all of the time in the name of Islam, i can't stay quiet.

I don't want it to be anything. 

You're the one who wants to convince himself that it's a religion of peace, and whenever a Muslims does something wrong in the name of Islam, you simply dismiss it by saying that either he wasn't a true Muslim or he interpreted the Quran in the "wrong" way.

[Sauron]

Insulting someone's mother is not grounds for them to actually threaten you with bodily harm. 

 

I never said that. I also wrote on the first page that I don't condone violence of any kind. We were rather discussing whether it should be considered ok and protected by the shield of free speech to openly insult some groups when touching others might get you in jail.

[Rashy]

I want to not even talk about it, but since certain Muslims continue to murder people all of the time in the name of Islam, i can't stay quiet.

I don't want it to be anything. 

You're the one who wants to convince himself that it's a religion of peace, and whenever a Muslims does something wrong in the name of Islam, you simply dismiss it by saying that either he wasn't a true Muslim or he interpreted the Quran in the "wrong" way.

Boom. Napalm Bomb has been dropped, You sir. Just Started a Flame War.

I believe what i want to believe.... And i believe in UFOs

[SIGSEGV]

"but since certain Muslims continue to murder people all of the time in the name of Islam, i can't stay quiet."

Is that a copy pasta now? The amount of times I've heard that exact excuse is ridiculous.

and whenever a Muslims does something wrong in the name of Islam, you simply dismiss it by saying that either he wasn't a true Muslim

First of all it's against Islam to dismiss someone who claims themselves to be Muslim as anything other.

or he interpreted the Quran in the "wrong" way.

Second of all, I really don't think it's a case of people taking the Quran the wrong way, I believe these people are being brainwashed by people who (similar to the way that you do might I add) take things out of context to fulfil their agenda. These people are saying 'if you do so and so you will have a one way ticket to paradise' and use that as a tool to manipulate and brainwash naive and desperate people.