Whats wrong with tap water?

[MoeBrowne]

I have heard many many times that deionised, distilled or de-mineralised water (aka DI water) are the best all-round coolants but I have never seen anyone explain why/how they are better than just regular tap water?

The way I see it is like this:

1. Given you run your loop for any length of time DI water will corrode any metal components and become ionised again.
   Though it will now only contain ions of the metals it has come in to contact with like copper, zinc and nickel. Is that in some way better?
   
2. As far as I'm aware any minerals dissolved in regular tap water will stay that way (aka not drop out of solution and clog water blocks) unless their concentration goes up but I'm assuming were talking about a closed loop where evaporation is negotiable. Is there another reason I'm not aware of?
   
3. The difference in thermal conductivity between DI water and tap water is going to make a difference smaller than any regular thermometer will show. Right?
   

Another thing is a mixture of plastic and copper pipes with brass fittings, just like we use in a cooling loop, are used to carry countless litres of tap water to our homes everyday and they seem to last near enough forever?

This is all assuming that we're not using any dies or other additives in the loop.

Has anyone tried a loop (or know anyone who has) containing just regular tap water?

Would love to get your opinions and experiences!

[Blade of Grass]

As you said, tap water has impurities, not just metals, but also chemicals. It also contains chlorine, which can damage the plastic used in tubing.

Also, tap water has Florine in it, which isn't needed in a water loop and lowers the thermal conductivity of the water.

Plus, water blocks can be made of tons of things, copper, aluminum, steel, and nickel, and mixing those metals together isn't good in a loop, so when tap water already has copper and other metals pre-dissolved, even if you only use steel blocks, you'll get corrosion.

Which in turn lower the cooling potential of the loop.

You have to remember that tap water is made for drinking, cooking cleaning, and because of that, it has Florine, chlorine, chlorine dioxide, Ozone, Monochloramine, plus they add coagulants which will make all those nice metal ions and mineral form clumps.

If you want to read up: http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_health/dwq/cmp130704chap8.pdf

[Dark_Nemesis]

1. Yes, of you would run it long enogh, it will corrode even if you are using destilled water (altough it'll tanke longer with detilled water than with tap water), that's why it is strongly recommended that you use custom liquid cooling coolant in your system, becuse it has anti corrosive properties.

2. No, it will not drop out, the ammount of minerals themselves aren't the problem here. The minerals act as a catalyst, and makes the water conduct small ammounts of electricity that causes the blocks to corrode, due to the different metals used in the build. (Copper blocks, brass rads and so on). Using destilled water works better but still not as good as custom coolant.

3. True, the difference is to small to be taken into account in this context.

[MoeBrowne]

It's true that it contains all kinds of stuff to kill of bacteria ect to make it safe for us but these are in extremely low concentrations because they are bad for us too.

It ofcourse depends where you live but here in the UK the chlorine content is less than 0.5 mg/L and I believe fluorine isn't added at all.

...water blocks can be made of tons of things' date=' copper, aluminum, steel, and nickel, and mixing those...[/quote']

I was assuming it was a single metal loop as any coolant will cause varying degrees of corrosion in a multi metal loop, depending on the metals.

...even if you only use steel blocks...

Steel would corrode because it reacts with the water its self, copper doesn't react with water (well its does but it's negligible).

I go back to the point of copper pipes in the home, they don't get corroded by the pre-dissolved metals in tap water?

---

The minerals act as a catalyst' date=' and makes the water conduct small ammounts of electricity that causes the blocks to corrode...[/quote']

The dissolved ions cause water to electrically conduct and as i mentioned as soon as you add water to the system it will start picking up ions from everything it can.

Using destilled water works better but still not as good as custom coolant.

Forgetting price, availability and other physical concerns, I am yet to see how this can be true?

[Whaler_99]

Tap water has been shown to promote algie growth when heated. Now, you can biocides to that, but then you have to contend with a possible bad reaction with all the other stuff in your tap water. Corrosion isn't to much of an issue except if you mix in aluminum into the loop, with say copper... Tap or distilled, you'll have issues with that. But overall, distilled water is pure and has better corrosion protection.

A proper coolant mix already typically has biocides and anti corrosives in it that work together and uses distilled water. These are the easiest to use. But, distilled water and a kill coil will work almost as well...

In the WC world, it is pretty much a given that distilled water (or a coolant mix with such) is the way to go. You can use tap water. Your loop though will need more maintenance, more often. And I aggree, deionized water seems like a bit of a myth to me. As soon as you open the lid, it starts absorbing ions. Soon as you run it in your loop, full of ions. :)

[Ghost]

I would have thought the main factor that hasnt been mentioned yet would be the lime scale build up in your water blocks where the water is temporarily quite hot.

Imagine your kettle after a while, thats how the water block would look after a while. Also don't forget the water is constantly moving so it would start to flake off and if enough of it gets somewhere you could block your loop.

[MoeBrowne]

Tap water has been shown to promote algie growth when heated.

Do you have a source for this? As far as I'm aware the additives they put in tap water are there to kill, or at least prevent growth of, things like algae, also in a closed loop where would algae get any oxygen beyond the small amount already dissolved?

Never the less what would be the problem with a tap water and kill coil loop, that would solve the algae problem.

And I aggree' date=' deionized water seems like a bit of a myth to me.[/quote']

I was starting to think I was the only one.

On every water cooling forum and guide they say to use deionized water (or premix) but the reasons they give never really stand up...

[Gmac]

Your right MoeBrowne. Custom coolants are never "better" than just plain old water. Even tap water. People have this misconceptions that corrosion will eat away at all the metal in there loops. When in fact if dont mix certain metals it wont ever be a problem. If you are super paranoid about corrosion you can get blocks that are plated with nickel or chromium. But they can cause their own problems if they are not plated well. Thank you EK.

It was in fact coolants and the poorly made EK blocks that caused a lot of this confusion. EK publicly blamed their users and water for their corrosion problems. However independent testing showed it was the coolant and the shitty plating causing all the problems.

​TL;DR Much like the AS5 debate people have fears that are not rooted in any reality.

[MoeBrowne]

Imagine your kettle after a while' date=' thats how the water block would look after a while.[/quote']

Kettles build up scale because when you boil the water you are distilling it a little bit. Some pure water is released as vapour and leaves behind the salts (mainly calcium carbonate I believe), which drop out of solution because the solution was already saturated.

[Gmac]

Tap water has been shown to promote algie growth when heated.

Do you have a source for this? As far as I'm aware the additives they put in tap water are there to kill, or at least prevent growth of, things like algae, also in a closed loop where would algae get any oxygen beyond the small amount already dissolved?

Never the less what would be the problem with a tap water and kill coil loop, that would solve the algae problem.

And I aggree' date=' deionized water seems like a bit of a myth to me.[/quote']

I was starting to think I was the only one.

On every water cooling forum and guide they say to use deionized water (or premix) but the reasons they give never really stand up...

I think why people, myself included, recommend DI water is because if you spring a leak it is less likely to short something out. Now i know that DI water picks up ions over time but it is hard to say for sure when it has picked up enough to start conducting electricity. If someone had a good DMM and a loop we could get a good test going. However the point is if you are going to spring a leak it is going to be within a few hours of filling your loop up. After that it doesn't really matter what kind of water you have in there. God knows i have spilled water all over my system before when filling it up. It is nice to know that you are spilling something non-conductive.

[MoeBrowne]

People have this misconceptions that corrosion will eat away at all the metal in there loops. When in fact if dont mix certain metals it wont ever be a problem. ...Much like the AS5 debate people have fears that are not rooted in any reality.

I couldn't agree more. I use copper through out, there cant be any galvanic corrosion if there aren't multiple metals to exchange electrons between.

[Aphexx]

Imagine your kettle after a while' date=' thats how the water block would look after a while.[/quote']

Kettles build up scale because when you boil the water you are distilling it a little bit. Some pure water is released as vapour and leaves behind the salts (mainly calcium carbonate I believe), which drop out of solution because the solution was already saturated.

also it is because you are running countless hundreds of litres of water through it over time. in a water loop you've got 500ml to a litre of water and that would contain a negligible amount of impurities that could possibly drop out of solution.

also isn't chlorine a biocide/fungicide

[Gmac]

Imagine your kettle after a while' date=' thats how the water block would look after a while.[/quote']

Kettles build up scale because when you boil the water you are distilling it a little bit. Some pure water is released as vapour and leaves behind the salts (mainly calcium carbonate I believe), which drop out of solution because the solution was already saturated.

If you are like every person i know that uses a kettle. You dont dump out the supersaturated water that is left over after each boiling. Rather just keep adding more water and reboiling over and over. So you just keep adding more and more impurities to the kettle. Only removing some of them when you pour out some of the hot water.

Chlorine is a biocide, however it does not last very long. If you fill a bucket up with water and leave it for 24 hours it wont be a biocide any longer.

[MoeBrowne]

Tap water has been shown to promote algie growth when heated.

Do you have a source for this? As far as I'm aware the additives they put in tap water are there to kill, or at least prevent growth of, things like algae, also in a closed loop where would algae get any oxygen beyond the small amount already dissolved?

Never the less what would be the problem with a tap water and kill coil loop, that would solve the algae problem.

And I aggree' date=' deionized water seems like a bit of a myth to me.[/quote']

I was starting to think I was the only one.

On every water cooling forum and guide they say to use deionized water (or premix) but the reasons they give never really stand up...

People seem to run a new loop for many hours before they use it in a system that is powered on so i guess it would make no odds to them as by the time they actually use their system its already starting to conduct.

[Gmac]

Tap water has been shown to promote algie growth when heated.

Do you have a source for this? As far as I'm aware the additives they put in tap water are there to kill, or at least prevent growth of, things like algae, also in a closed loop where would algae get any oxygen beyond the small amount already dissolved?

Never the less what would be the problem with a tap water and kill coil loop, that would solve the algae problem.

And I aggree' date=' deionized water seems like a bit of a myth to me.[/quote']

I was starting to think I was the only one.

On every water cooling forum and guide they say to use deionized water (or premix) but the reasons they give never really stand up...

I would say you are pretty much right on. Most people, not everyone however, are smart and dont boot there system up with there loop for the first time. But you do have to bleed the system, often for days, of air bubbles. That is when i would argue is the best reason to use distilled water.

[MoeBrowne]

Imagine your kettle after a while' date=' thats how the water block would look after a while.[/quote']

Kettles build up scale because when you boil the water you are distilling it a little bit. Some pure water is released as vapour and leaves behind the salts (mainly calcium carbonate I believe), which drop out of solution because the solution was already saturated.

The total volume of water in a loop is a good point Aphexx, here in the UK the water is pretty hard and yet contains as little as 200mg/L there is no chance thats going to cause a block or even be noticed, even if ALL of it and its friends came out of solution.

[Blade of Grass]

It's true that it contains all kinds of stuff to kill of bacteria ect to make it safe for us but these are in extremely low concentrations because they are bad for us too.

It ofcourse depends where you live but here in the UK the chlorine content is less than 0.5 mg/L and I believe fluorine isn't added at all.

...water blocks can be made of tons of things' date=' copper, aluminum, steel, and nickel, and mixing those...[/quote']

I was assuming it was a single metal loop as any coolant will cause varying degrees of corrosion in a multi metal loop, depending on the metals.

...even if you only use steel blocks...

Steel would corrode because it reacts with the water its self, copper doesn't react with water (well its does but it's negligible).

I go back to the point of copper pipes in the home, they don't get corroded by the pre-dissolved metals in tap water?

---

The minerals act as a catalyst' date=' and makes the water conduct small ammounts of electricity that causes the blocks to corrode...[/quote']

The dissolved ions cause water to electrically conduct and as i mentioned as soon as you add water to the system it will start picking up ions from everything it can.

Using destilled water works better but still not as good as custom coolant.

Forgetting price, availability and other physical concerns, I am yet to see how this can be true?

By steel, I meant stainless steel, sorry for being unclear.

Oh, and you'r right, in the UK something like only 4% of people get Fluorinated water.

[YowZman]

limescale is the big reason. it will collect, it will wreck perfomance, and as someone else said, you will get flakes blocking your system. it contains fluorine and chlorine, both of which degrade under UV light (sunlight) and you loose their anti microbial properties. its conductive because its full of metal salts, its just a nasty mix to put in something you want to leave and not have to maintain all the time. also, i bet descaling blocks is a bitch.

[jeffrly]

Does it make a difference when you live in an area with soft water vs hard water?

[MoeBrowne]

limescale is the big reason. it will collect' date=' it will wreck perfomance, and as someone else said, you will get flakes blocking your system.[/quote']

Even with very hard water the amount of lime scale in 1 litre of water is less than 400mg.

Regardless what's going to make the lime scale come out of solution? and also even if all of it came out of solution there is no chance such a small amount i's going to block anything.

...it contains fluorine and chlorine' date=' both of which degrade under UV light (sunlight) and you loose their anti microbial properties.[/quote']

How much UV do you get in your case?

...its conductive because its full of metal salts...

It's more than that, it's conductive because of the ions in solution regardless of the compound they disassociated from and as soon as you run water through your loop it will fill with ions and eventually become probably more electrically conductive than tap water was to start.

Does it make a difference when you live in an area with soft water vs hard water?

As I mentioned above to YowZman (and earlier in this thread) the amount of lime scale in even the hardest water is less than 400mg/L

[hehehehhehehehe]

I would have thought the main factor that hasnt been mentioned yet would be the lime scale build up in your water blocks where the water is temporarily quite hot.

Imagine your kettle after a while, thats how the water block would look after a while. Also don't forget the water is constantly moving so it would start to flake off and if enough of it gets somewhere you could block your loop.

I would have thought the main factor that hasnt been mentioned yet would be the lime scale build up in your water blocks where the water is temporarily quite hot.

Imagine your kettle after a while, thats how the water block would look after a while. Also don't forget the water is constantly moving so it would start to flake off and if enough of it gets somewhere you could block your loop.

What about pure rainwater?

[Ghost]

What about pure rainwater?

It gets dirty as it falls through the atmosphere. It can also be acidic.

 

EDIT: You can pre-treat the water though. I assume you are taking this from a huge rainwater tank?

[DrainDoc]

Something else to consider is the expense of a water cooling setup. Unless you are having clinical testing done of your local

 

water supply (what's in it and what's not) and if you have endless money to burn.......

 

A practical person with not a lot of money is going to risk/gamble with his or her water cooling system that has cost a small

 

fortune, plus then the cost of replacement if and when the tap water does do some kind of damage over the long run.

 

It just seems all that time, money and effort for a decent to even top of the line system, would be playing with fire.

 

Why would you even consider it? Does the risk out way the reward?

[hehehehhehehehe]

It gets dirty as it falls through the atmosphere. It can also be acidic.

 

EDIT: You can pre-treat the water though. I assume you are taking this from a huge rainwater tank?

Basically what I was thinking..

We live out in the middle of nowhere, so yes it is from a central tank

[PBaines]

Basically what I was thinking..

We live out in the middle of nowhere, so yes it is from a central tank

 

I live out in the middle of no where and use rainwater in my loops as it is just straight rain water.

 

However, I put all my water in the jug. Boil it. put it in another jug, and use it after It has cooled down. With two drops of Mayhems Biocide I have never run into any problems with algae, dirty blocks etc