Planning on watercooling! 900D

[xBlizzDevious]

Hey Guys,

 

I'm going to be buying a 900D as soon as it's released (check out my thread in cases and PSUs) and I thought, why have that case and not watercool!?

 

So... What I have that I intend to watercool:

 

CPU: Core i7 3930K

GPU: 3 x 7970

 

One of those is reference, the other two are causing me problems and have been sent back but may or may not be reference when I get them back, I have however requested that the replacements have reference PCBs. (2x XFX R7970 Double Dissipation cards which have changed PCB since I ordered them).

 

Anyways, in other threads, you guys have asked for a layout suggestion, so I shall add a picture of what I intend to this post.

 

Basically, what I want to know is -

1. What sort of pump will I need?

2. Will I need a redundancy pump?

3. This waterblock has my favourite design and both CPU and GPU blocks come in this design, but what is the difference between the 'acetal', 'acetal + nickel' and whatever other versions are out there and what difference will it make in a loop?

4. Which is best, compressions or barbs? Is it pretty much down to how it looks and what you want or do they work differently in any way other than how they secure the tubes?

5. What make of tube is the best for me? I'm planning on going with a solid colour, probably white, but I don't know that for sure yet.

6. As I plan on using solid colour tubes, I don't particularly need any fancy coolant, so I intend to just use distilled water. However, from reading the FAQs and guides that are stickied here, it seems you need some form of chemicals in it or some silver bio-killer thing? Could someone please explain to me how they work?

7. Is it simple enough to add two more GPUs to a loop at a later date, or is it far more hassle than it's worth just watercooling one until I have all 3 back?

8. From looking at my PC plan (attached) what would be the best order for the loop? Also, would I need more cooling than I suggested - all devices OCed?

9. Fans... Probably just push or pull unless thick radiators and greatly benefiting from push-pull.

Final question: my 1050W PSU can handle the computer in it's current state. If I add in a pump and a multitude of fans, will it start to struggle?

 

I think that's all. If you have any questions about my questions please ask, and if I have any more questions, I shall ask them as I know you guys are helpful!

 

Thanks

[PBaines]

1. What sort of pump will I need?All you should need for this loop will be a single Laing MCP655 Pump, This pump has been rebranded by many companies (Koolance, XSPC Alphacool etc) so you may see it being called a D5 or even a 450-s.

 

2. Will I need a redundancy pump? No.

 

3. This waterblock has my favourite design and both CPU and GPU blocks come in this design, but what is the difference between the 'acetal', 'acetal + nickel' and whatever other versions are out there and what difference will it make in a loop? The difference between the Acetal and Acetal + Nickel for the CSQ Designed GPU blocks means that the block has been split. The Left hand side of the top of the block will be Acetal, and the Right will be Nickel. You can see pictures for comparison when on the EK site. There is really not enough of a difference between any block or brand, so choose the blocks you like :)

 

4. Which is best, compressions or barbs? Is it pretty much down to how it looks and what you want or do they work differently in any way other than how they secure the tubes?  The SAFEST for fittings are Compression fittings. they are like a barb fitting with an outer shell that screws onto thread to secure the tubing on securely to the fitting. With a barb fitting most usually put a hose clamp around the tube to secure the tubing to the barb. FOR ME PERSONALLY I like to use tubing and barbs. However I use 7/16" ID (internal Diameter) tubing with a 1/2" barb. The 7/16" tubing is smaller than the diameter of the 1/2" barb so is a very tight fit meaning you will not need to use a hose clamp. This way is tidier than compressions (The way I see it anyway)

 

5. What make of tube is the best for me? I'm planning on going with a solid colour, probably white, but I don't know that for sure yet. The most common brand of tubing is Promochill. They make all sorts of sizes including white

 

6. As I plan on using solid colour tubes, I don't particularly need any fancy coolant, so I intend to just use distilled water. However, from reading the FAQs and guides that are stickied here, it seems you need some form of chemicals in it or some silver bio-killer thing? Could someone please explain to me how they work? In your loop you will put something in called either a Silver Kink Coil (material) or a Biocide (clear liquid). This kills off bacteria and prevents Algae growth your loop. If you do not run this, after several months you would notice your tubing go green (or you will not if you have coloured tubing) and also your Reservoir. This can cause problems with performance as over time it will grow which it can grow inside your waterblocks degrading the performance entirely. It is a nasty road to travel and cleaning is also difficult. for the ease of a drop you will never see an Algae problem I would HIGHLY recommend it

 

7. Is it simple enough to add two more GPUs to a loop at a later date, or is it far more hassle than it's worth just watercooling one until I have all 3 back? It is simple enough. The only thing you will have to do is drain the fluid from your loop and add the cards in. Make sure when building your loop you take note of a place where you can drain your fluid. You can buy Quick Disonnect fittings or you could also use a Bitspower Tap fitting to do this.

 

8. From looking at my PC plan (attached) what would be the best order for the loop? Also, would I need more cooling than I suggested - all devices OCed? There is no real way to say to someone "BUILD YOUR LOOP LIKE THIS." Loop order really does not matter, the only thing you need to do is make sure the pump is lower than the reservoir. After that, make the loop tidy. That is the best rule to watercooling. Make it tidy, Think about what your loop could be. The shorter the loop, the tidy. So make sure you have angle fittings.There are endless options to how you could have your loop in the above configuration 

 

9. Fans... Probably just push or pull unless thick radiators and greatly benefiting from push-pull. The most highly regarded fans are made by Noctua. With extreme cooling capability and super quiet also built reliably. They are remarkably expensive but are also one of the best fans you could use. An option you could also use is the Corsair SP120's. These fans are designed for radiators and perform around the same as the Noctua's would but are half of the price.

Final question: my 1050W PSU can handle the computer in it's current state. If I add in a pump and a multitude of fans, will it start to struggle? No you should not come into any difficulties. Something you could do however is buy one of these wall adapters (http://dicksmith.co.nz/media/DSNZ/Product/300x300/M7319_0_v1_m56577569835170063.JPG

)

you plug in that tells you how many watts  your rig is drawing. they are about $20 but serve a great purpose. You will know exactly how many watts your rig will be drawing at max load.

 

something to note;

For a build like that you will need a good amount of surface area to cool those components. I would recommend getting an Alphacool UT60 480 radiator for the top, and if you can squeeze an Alpacool UT60 240 in the front you should be good to go.

 

Hope this helped dude! Will help you out if you need anything further :)

[xBlizzDevious]

Thanks for the helpful reply! It'll be a good while yet before I get this, but I'd like to know what I'm doing.

 

I've seen the Alphacool radiators, I could fit one of those ridiculously huge ones on the front if I needed. I've already found the UT60s and have that bookmarked from the other day. I think I personally prefer the look of the compressions over barbs. I think the only things I really have to do is to choose the layout, decide on colour scheme and then buy it! And built it, of course. So... 900D... When you being released!?!?!? Or more importantly, when will I actually be able to get one? Haha! (Don't worry, that question has already been answered in my thread about it).

 

Thanks, PBaines!

[Ghost]

Thanks for the helpful reply! It'll be a good while yet before I get this, but I'd like to know what I'm doing.

 

I've seen the Alphacool radiators, I could fit one of those ridiculously huge ones on the front if I needed. I've already found the UT60s and have that bookmarked from the other day. I think I personally prefer the look of the compressions over barbs. I think the only things I really have to do is to choose the layout, decide on colour scheme and then buy it! And built it, of course. So... 900D... When you being released!?!?!? Or more importantly, when will I actually be able to get one? Haha! (Don't worry, that question has already been answered in my thread about it).

 

Thanks, PBaines!

(I didn't read the reply above so I may be repeating things or contradicting him.)

 

At the top you should get a 420/480 80mm thick radiator at the top.

 

HOWEVER.

 

If I were you I would put the 6 HDD bays int he main section of the case and put a 480 radiator in the bottom compartment of the case.

 

This should be 40-80mm thick. Then at the top have a simple 60mm 360 radiator. This would most probably even allow you to passively cool your system while its not under load, (provided you have the correct temp monitoring and fan control software/hardware)

[xBlizzDevious]

That's a good point, actually!

 

I did think of moving the drives to the top and using two 480mm rads but I think I would prefer the clean look of no drives in the top half, then again, there would be a radiator there instead, which may look worse. I'd need to see both setups to decide, unfortunately. Time to google.

 

 

A few more questions for you guys:

 

1. PBaines said which fans were best, but he didn't say whether I'll benefit from push-pull on the suggested radiator (Alphacool UT60). Would push-pull be worth it for that, or is just a push or pull setup sufficient?

2. Fan control - would this system, kitted out with Corsair or Noctua fans - what about silverstone's new AP fans -they as good? - in a 'silent' mode keep this adequately cool or would I benefit from a proper fan control system that will ramp the fans up as everything gets hotter?

3. If I went with the fan controller, what fan controllers are good for those fans and what would be the best way of setting up the controlling system? Ie, use temps from the OS or temps from thermometers within the case?

[Ghost]

That's a good point, actually!

 

I did think of moving the drives to the top and using two 480mm rads but I think I would prefer the clean look of no drives in the top half, then again, there would be a radiator there instead, which may look worse. I'd need to see both setups to decide, unfortunately. Time to google.

 

 

A few more questions for you guys:

 

1. PBaines said which fans were best, but he didn't say whether I'll benefit from push-pull on the suggested radiator (Alphacool UT60). Would push-pull be worth it for that, or is just a push or pull setup sufficient?

2. Fan control - would this system, kitted out with Corsair or Noctua fans - what about silverstone's new AP fans -they as good? - in a 'silent' mode keep this adequately cool or would I benefit from a proper fan control system that will ramp the fans up as everything gets hotter?

3. If I went with the fan controller, what fan controllers are good for those fans and what would be the best way of setting up the controlling system? Ie, use temps from the OS or temps from thermometers within the case?

1. You will benefit from push-pull on any radiator. The air would move through faster. However, I would say one Noctua NF-F12 is enough for a radiator of any thickness.
2. You need software fan control. High need motherboards have this or get something like a T-Balancer. Believe me when I say you will not use a fan controller that you have to manually control. I know you think you will but you won't. After maybe a month you will just stop using it. Software based fan control with curves means your fans will rmap down while the system is idle and ramp up if needed while the system is at load. I highly recommend this just because its the best of both worlds.
3. You can buy thermometers that measure the temp of the water in your loop and simple thermometers. The best control is simply anything equivalent to asus' Fan Xpert where it can use the CPU's temp. If your motherboard does not support this either look into the T-balancer or Corsairs solution. ( http://www.corsair.com/corsair-link-cooling-kit.html/ )

[xBlizzDevious]

Hmm. I honestly don't know if my motherboard does support it. I shall see what fan control software MSI includes. I used to have a phantom which has built in fan control (manual, and I sort of used it... Haha)! Anyways, thanks for the help, again.

Quick note about the Corsair Link thing... I've never heard or read about anyone who's had success with it. Have you?

[Ghost]

Quick note about the Corsair Link thing... I've never heard or read about anyone who's had success with it. Have you?

Nope and I haven't either.

 

Maybe google it or make a thread in the modding section? Anyways good luck!

[xBlizzDevious]

Nope and I haven't either.

 

Maybe google it or make a thread in the modding section? Anyways good luck!

 

Haha! I shall have a quick google and if I might ask in the modding forum. I believe one of the build logs last week in the live show had working Corsair Link (might've been the week before).

 

Anyways, if I build up a list of items with links, would you be able to tell me if everything suggested would work fine together?

 

EDIT: Another quick question: what on earth are the 'pump tops' I keep reading about?

[Ghost]

Haha! I shall have a quick google and if I might ask in the modding forum. I believe one of the build logs last week in the live show had working Corsair Link (might've been the week before).

 

Anyways, if I build up a list of items with links, would you be able to tell me if everything suggested would work fine together?

 

EDIT: Another quick question: what on earth are the 'pump tops' I keep reading about?

They are tops for pumps. They are attached to the tops or pumps and replace the stop pump tops so you can have threads in your pump so you can use your own fittings. They also tend to look nicer.

 

 

Make diagram of your loop? This not only helps us understand what you want but it also helps you to understand what you want better and makes it easy to spot potential flaws in a loop.

 

To do this simply grab a 2D side on snap of your case. (Just type your case name into google images and scroll down a bit till you find one, it should be there.) Then go to a photo editing program and simply put rectangles where you would like to place your radiators, blocks, reservoirs, pumps and tubing. For blocks use blue, for radiators use red and anything else use grey and for tubing use orange/brown lines with an arrow to point out the intended flow direction of your loop. There is no need to put fans in. This forum has an upload function or you can use an image sharing site and embed the picture into your post. This is an example of this from my personal loop: http://i.imgur.com/MynbfCp.jpg

 

(I believe you forgot to put tubing in your old one and now you have shuffled things around anyways)

 

Then simply list all your components you wish to water-cool in a bullet point list and finally list all the water-cooling components you will use when building your loop.

[xBlizzDevious]

Will do!

 

Another question: I believe I heard Linus say something about some tube reservoirs being of poor quality. Which ones are the better quality ones?

[Ghost]

Will do!

 

Another question: I believe I heard Linus say something about some tube reservoirs being of poor quality. Which ones are the better quality ones?

No idea. I am unaware or any quality issue with any cylinder res's

[xBlizzDevious]

Fair enough. An EK Tube res will do just fine since the rest of what I've chosen is EK, pretty much. Haha!

 

EDIT 1: OK, I'm pretty much set on the list, however, I'd really like to know what fan adaptor would be best, what I'll need is two 4 port fan adaptors, preferably PWM as I'm going with Corsair's SP120s which are PWM, but I don't know what they're called. I can't find molex/SATA/fan header to 4 x fan header things.

 

EDIT 2: Oh, and Corsair's SP fans have both quiet and performance editions. Just how loud are the performance edition fans? Are they worth the extra noise or are they still so quiet that it wouldn't matter? I'd like a 'silent' computer, but I can live with some noise, as I'm used to the reference 7970 cooler... Jeeeez.

 

EDIT 3: This is the plan I have drawn up. Looks a bit better than the last one and includes tube layout ideas. Please tell me what you think!

 

Also, does the 3-way GPU Block adaptor thing need any pieces to attach them to the GPU blocks or not (or are they included)?

 

Parts List (only one bad thing about it - as far as I can see; £800. Which I can't afford right now. Going to have to save a bit more):

 

Laing D5 (Alphacool VPP655-T12)

http://www.specialtech.co.uk/spshop/customer/Laing-D5-Alphacool-VPP655-T12-Variable-Speed-12V-Pump-for-12-ID-Tube--VPP655-T12-pid-13121.html

 

PrimoChill PrimoFlex Pro 3/8" - 1/2" - Solid White (roughly how much of this will I need? Will 3m be enough?)

http://www.specialtech.co.uk/spshop/customer/Primochill-PrimoFlex-Pro-LRT-38-ID---12-OD-10-13mm-Tubing--White-pid-12669.html

 

EK RES X3 250MM 6 Port Reservoir

http://www.specialtech.co.uk/spshop/customer/EK-RES-X3-250-6-Port-Reservoir--Acetal-pid-16887.html

 

Alphacool Compressions - Deep Black (Straight, 45° & 90°)

http://www.specialtech.co.uk/spshop/customer/Alphacool-14-Thread-Compression-Fitting-for-38-ID---12-OD-Tubing--Deep-Black-pid-14246.html

http://www.specialtech.co.uk/spshop/customer/Alphacool-HF-14-Thread-45-Degree-Rotary-Compression-Fitting-for-38-ID---12-OD-10-13mm-Tubing--Deep-Black-pid-15470.html

http://www.specialtech.co.uk/spshop/customer/Alphacool-HF-14-Thread-90-Degree-Rotary-Compression-Fitting-for-38-ID---12-OD-10-13mm-Tubing--Deep-Black-pid-15472.html

 

Alphacool NexXxos UT60 Full Copper 480mm Rad (x2)

http://www.specialtech.co.uk/spshop/customer/Alphacool-NexXxoS-UT60-Full-Copper-480mm-Quad-Radiator-pid-14820.html

 

Corsair SP120s (x8)

http://www.specialtech.co.uk/spshop/customer/Corsair-Air-Series-120-x-120-x-25mm-PWM-SP120-Quiet-Edition-Case-Fan-TWIN-PACK--CO-9050012-WW-pid-17729.html

OR

http://www.specialtech.co.uk/spshop/customer/Corsair-Air-Series-120-x-120-x-25mm-PWM-SP120-High-Performance-Edition-Case-Fan-TWIN-PACK--CO-9050014-WW-pid-17730.html

 

EK Supreme LTX CSQ - Copper Acetal

http://www.specialtech.co.uk/spshop/customer/EK-Supreme-LTX-CSQ-Intel-CPU-Waterblock--Copper-Acetal-pid-16895.html

 

EK FC Bridge Triple Serial CSQ Design - Acetal

http://www.specialtech.co.uk/spshop/customer/EK-FC-Bridge-Triple-Serial-CSQ-Design--Acetal-pid-16153.html

 

EK FC7970 CSQ Full Cover Waterblock for reference 7970 (x3)

http://www.specialtech.co.uk/spshop/customer/EK-FC7970-CSQ-Full-Cover-Waterblock-for-Reference-Design-AMDATI-HD-7970--7950--Graphics-Cards--Copper-Acetal-pid-16333.html

 

EK FC7970 CSQ Design Backplate (x3)

http://www.specialtech.co.uk/spshop/customer/EK-FC7970-Backplate-CSQ-Design--Black-pid-16444.html

[xBlizzDevious]

I'm a bit curious on angles and such as without the case and parts to hand, I don't really know exact angles. I don't suppose there's some awesome tool around somewhere that lets you design a watercooling loop within a system in some virtual environment, is there?

 

Also, in my list, I didn't include any distilled water or biocide. Are there any brands to avoid and any brands that make good quality stuff? From reading, it looks like there are different grades of distilled water but they're not differentiated. Will they make a difference? And biocide-wise, are any brands better than others?

 

Basically, I want this loop to be a build it and leave it loop for as long as possible. If I just use distilled water and biocide, will it be as simple to maintain as a closed loop system (theoretically no maintenance)?

 

Also, I have been thinking about getting some nicer cables, as far as I can see, there's no pre-done cables for XFX PSUs. I don't really want to be taking apart and sleeving the cables myself as I'm not very good at that sort of thing. I've looked at some extensions, but they're all twice the length they need to be and cost a fortune. What would be the best solution? Or do you know somewhere that sells XFX cables pre-individually sleeved in white? Or those awesome ribbon style ones.

 

Thanks

[Ghost]

Sorry for the delay in posting. But I forgot about this earlier and now I am too tired to answer. I've bookmarked the thread so I don't forget again. I'll reply tomorrow.

[xBlizzDevious]

Haha! 'Tis OK, Ghost. I'm in no hurry for this because as long as the 900D is not released and available, I ain't buying any watercooling.

[PBaines]

I will help you out tonight and draw you a proper loop layout (Of course it will be in paint hehe) but you will get a better idea of how to have your loop :)

edit; It is lunchtime here so a few hours away!

[xBlizzDevious]

Well it's 3am here and I'm about to go to sleep. Haha. I'm in the UK, just so you know.

 

Feel free to draw what you suggest, I shall look at it as soon as my computer is switched on tomorrow! (Kinda today...)

 

Thanks

[Ghost]

• What you need is a PWM fan splitter. It joins two fans into one socket so with them you can group sets of fans. Then depending on your motherboard you can either plug it into your motherboard and let that control the fans (which is the best solution) or you could buy a T-balancer or corsairs new Commander unit which goes into a drive bay and controls your fans from there. I recommend nothing less then automatic fan control because you will not use anything other than automatic fan control.
• I hate my performance edition fans because of the noise. If you are going corsair use the silent editions. However, I highly recommend you invest into noctua. With water cooling you can hide the fans in between the radiator and the case so you do not even have to see the colour
• Your layout looks like you are trying to achieve "block -> rad -> block -> rad" flow. This is unnecessary. I could draw a much better layout for your tubing for you but I won't because you should do it yourself. I will give you a few hints though. You can run the tubing behind the motherboard tray in the 900D. Also try and make your tubing runs as short as possible.
• I think everything comes included, never used one though.

 

• Unless you are into modeling then nope. :(
• If you want a solid coolant that is good and will work then use EK or XSPC coolant. You can also go with mayhems but they have compatibility issues with tubing but they look amazing.
• You will also need to maintain every 1 year or so. But that's a typicalish PC upgrade cycle anyway so don't worry about it, just do it the next time you have to switch a few components in your system.
• phobya make cable extensions, they are expensive. Unless you sleeve yourself which takes hours and hours of work there is no other choice.

[PBaines]

I think Ghost makes a good point about planning your loop out yourself actually. That is something you should do yourself, to have it how you would like. As long as there is a loop. And it is tidy. Then that is all that matters.

 

as for loop order. This is how I would do it. Res > Pump > Rad > GPU > CPU > Rad > Res (Note from the Rad > Res tube I would run that behind the motherboard tray. All that is needed is a few 90 degree fittings!) 

 

Though Ghost. Not too sure why you back up Noctua over anything else as the Corsair SP120's perform almost identically to the Noctua's but cost less! The quiet edition fans are what I have and I can barely hear them at all at 100% RPM. 

[Ghost]

Though Ghost. Not too sure why you back up Noctua over anything else as the Corsair SP120's perform almost identically to the Noctua's but cost less! The quiet edition fans are what I have and I can barely hear them at all at 100% RPM. 

I have SP120's and they don't. I have them on fan reducers they cam with though a very restrictive rad and the NF-F12's perform much better. Maybe its because I have the Performance Edition.

 

I may do a video comparing them at one point to prove my point.

 

_{P.S.: Don't give the loop order away!}

[PBaines]

I have SP120's and they don't. I have them on fan reducers they came with though a very restrictive rad and the NF-F12's perform much better. Maybe its because I have the Performance Edition.

 

I may do a video comparing them at one point to prove my point.

 

_{P.S.: Don't give the loop order away!}

 

Would be interested to see the comparative results actually. Though if you had a fan controller and dipped your ones down to the max RPM of the silent edition fans then you could test them as being the "silent edition" too

I was watching a TTL video and he mentioned though the Noctua's are the best of the best, though the Noctua's only just come out on top. But at half the price per fan, the smarter man would choose the Corsair.

 

The loop order can be given out, but how he deals with the angles and what not will define the level of aesthetics ;)  

[xBlizzDevious]

Hmm. I really think I need to actually see it in person. I don't know anyone around me who's got a watercooled machine that I could have a look at and I definitely don't know anyone who's got a 900D. I'll have another look at my loop design but as I said, without seeing something similar in person, I can't really tell what it looks like. Since I've only ever seen pictures of watercooled machines and never seen one in person.

[Ghost]

Hmm. I really think I need to actually see it in person. I don't know anyone around me who's got a watercooled machine that I could have a look at and I definitely don't know anyone who's got a 900D. I'll have another look at my loop design but as I said, without seeing something similar in person, I can't really tell what it looks like. Since I've only ever seen pictures of watercooled machines and never seen one in person.

The less tubing you have visible the better.

 

The more you keep to; 0, 45, 90 angles of tubing the better.

 

You do not have to have seen a water-cooled PC to be able to know what looks best and if anything pictures are enough.

[xBlizzDevious]

Though I can't see it in person, it does indeed look like it will be neater with the pipe behind the motherboard tray.